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What would your utopia look like?

enamdar

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How would you design your eutopa or utopia, your perfect world. What would be the government, society, technology, and culture?

Actually More's original Utopia isn't so bad. A tad limited by the 16th century, but generally quite agreeable. Actually quite a few dystopias especially Brave New World, don't seem so bad either. And I would love to live in one of Ayn Rand's "collectivist" dystopias.

Note that the word Utopia does NOT mean "no place" though we have emphasized that side of it historically which says something in itself. It is a combination of outopia and eutopia (good place).

So how would you design your earthly paradise?
 
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How would you design your eutopa or utopia, your perfect world. What would be the government, society, technology, and culture?

Actually More's original Utopia isn't so bad. A tad limited by the 16th century, but generally quite agreeable. Actually quite a few dystopias especially Brave New World, don't seem so bad either. And I would love to live in one of Ayn Rand's "collectivist" dystopias.

Note that the word Utopia does NOT mean "no place" though we have emphasized that side of it historically which says something in itself. It is a combination of outopia and eutopia (good place).

So how would you design your earthly paradise?
My utopia would be a communist utopia. Everyone is equal, everyone is treated equally. No one is bad. everyone has everything they want. Everyone is happy, everyone is moral, everyone is nice and understanding toward each other. There is no violence, there is no war, and every problem is solved and no problem exists. Everyone works and is bonded toward each other and works for each other just for the sake of being nice. the government is efficient and is made up directly by everyone, a direct democracy. The society is intelligent, the bulk of societies' intelligence stemmed toward research, science, and technology. There is no military because there is no violence. And the culture is a "freedom-of-thought Christianity".

It's the communist ideal.

Unfortunately, that will never, ever exist. It's a child's world that exists only in the mind of sheltered children.
 
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Very nearly the opposite of DarkWizard12's.

A place for everyone, and everyone in their place. The government and the means of production would form a seamless whole, a perfect bureaucracy in which everyone knows their job and is suited to it, and works to prove their worthiness for advancement. Like his utopia, every material need would be fulfilled, but only so that the meritocracy could be perfectly fair.

In contrast, the society and culture itself would revolve around extended families and exclusive academies that would exist in a state of constant rivalry that broke out into frequent armed conflicts and infrequent all-out wars. Every citizen-- whether in the office, the laboratory, the arena, or the battlefield-- will strive to earn glory and respect for themselves and for their families. Every individual will be supported and encouraged to live up to their highest potential, and the unfit will be broken and left to rot. The government would have its military, of course, as would every family with enough influence-- without the artificial promise of gold-- to field one.

Every ounce of sweat, every drop of blood, would go toward creating a humanity that was more fit, more aware, and more alive than the humanity that preceded it.
 
Mine would be total fracking chaos, because Utopia is a pipe dream. South Carolina and Georgia would be at war with North Carolina and Florida, because of all them dam' yankees polluting our culture. Conservatives would be hunting liberals in the streets with shotguns and AR15's, with no bag limit.

As the Most Exalted Potentate and Arbiter of Ceremonies, I'd schedule the Black Panthers parade on the same day and the same street as the NeoNazi parade, and require every parade participant and all spectators to carry Colt 1911 long-slides and at least three spare mags, or a Glock 17 and two spare mags. Body armor would not be allowed at the parade.

Washington DC would look like a disaster movie and be a ghost town. You don't want to know.

North and South Dakota would be at war over rights to the name "Dakota" with genocide as the mandate and winner take all.

Chicago would be the new dump for the entire world's radioactive waste, toxic chemicals and biohazard materials. No, I wouldn't let the current residents move first.

Northern California would seceed from Southern California, and any attempt to by SoCal to reposess NorCal would be smashed flat, since NorCal has all the cowboys and SoCal has all the hippies.

We would deport all our surviving welfare recipients to Mexico, and insist the Mexican government grant them amnesty, citizenship, and full benefits.

In place of the Twin Towers, I would build a new monument: a giant fist with the middle finger upraised, half a mile high. The inscription on the Statue of Liberty would be changed to "We're full now, sorry."

Massachusetts would seceed from the union, whether it wanted to or not... it is far too much of an embarassment to remain a state.

When the Yankee-go-home-wars were over in Dixie, the Bible Belt would become a new nation, a Protestant theocracy....which would then immediately fragment into 100 warring mini-states due to religious schisms and arguments over "dry or wet".

Yup, life is good in my Utopia.... oops, duck, that sounds like incoming mortar rounds... :mrgreen:
 
In other words, it's my utopia without the bureaucracy.
 
Mostly, people would try not to be jerks to one another. Everything else is just gravy
 
Ever watch Star Trek?

Everybody has a role within their community, and he/she fulfill that position for the betterment of civilization. "Stuff" is meaningless, all these gadgets that are thrown toward one person or another bounces off, and it is only the issues of health, education, and family that provides one the willpower to do his or her work.
 
Ever watch Star Trek?

Everybody has a role within their community, and he/she fulfill that position for the betterment of civilization. "Stuff" is meaningless, all these gadgets that are thrown toward one person or another bounces off, and it is only the issues of health, education, and family that provides one the willpower to do his or her work.

Yeah...and they don't use money, they say...so what were they playing poker with all the time? :mrgreen:
 
I make no claims to know how to establish a paradise, but I think I can envision a better form of government.

I have been thinking of a caste-republic. In other words, the under productive and under educated would have no national vote, but perhaps a local or regional vote, would be unable to own land or seek office.

The repeat criminal would essentially be a slave with minimal rights.

Those with minimal educational achievements and little or no criminal history would be fully enfranchised.

Social Welfare programs and education would be forbidden to the Government, with the exception that educational requirements for caste assignment established at the constitutional level. Both of the functions I cite would be the responsibility of Society, not Government.

Finally, the elected officials would constitute a special caste, with restricted rights, and would live under penalty of death for conviction of criminal abuse of their offices.

I might also include military or other service as a requirement for inclusion in the fully enfranchised class.

Except for the Slave Caste being inescapable, I envision full mobility between the remaining castes.
 
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My utopia would be a very structured and regimented society. Ordered much like the military, on every functional level. Everybody would essentially start at the same level(at the bottom) and through the merits of their contributions and accomplishments, would move up in "rank" within society and would be afforded both the privileges and responsibilities of that rank. If there is one thing I cannot stand to see, is somebody who should be in a position of authority over their subordinants that either A) Does not fully understand the importance the role that their subordinant plays or B) Fratenizes with their subordinants on a level that creates the illusion they are simply equals. In my utopia, everybody "comes up" through the ranks, so they will have an understanding of the role their subordinants play, because they will have been there before and can thus more effectively lead those people.
 
No wars, no poverty, enough food and shelter for everyone. When the basics are covered, everything else falls into place.

Mine would be similar to this.
It would probably be a matriarchy.
That's probably the only way it would be possible.
Men (and any female who was interested) could have a special island allocated to them- greenland or iceland- or maybe a whole continent: Australia- where they could go and beat the everliving crap out of each other when they felt the urge to (with rocks and sticks, of course; we wouldn't let them have real weapons).
 
My utopia would be a very structured and regimented society. Ordered much like the military, on every functional level. Everybody would essentially start at the same level(at the bottom) and through the merits of their contributions and accomplishments, would move up in "rank" within society and would be afforded both the privileges and responsibilities of that rank.

What are children considered, and how are they to be educated?
 
What are children considered, and how are they to be educated?

I don't know what I would consider them, other than children, but their education would consist of basic foundations and concepts early on(simple math, language/writing skills, science and history). Fitness/health and self defense classes would be mandatory as well(in my utopia these would be requisite for advancement as well). At a certain point in development, in order to ingrain the rank structure of the adult world, they would begin to emulate this on a smaller level within the classroom/school. Further yet into the progression, they will have been tested to see where their strengths/weaknesses are after the base has been established. I would be inclined to leave the choice of career path up to them, but they would be counseled to follow the path where their strengths lie, since it would give them a greater chance for promotion in the "adult" society. But while their focus would likely be on their strength, I would require that some attention(in their cirriculum) be paid to their weaknesses as well. I don't want there to be a myopic focus by the citizens that only extends to the edges of their expertise, but neither do I want people that know a little bit about everything, but not enough about something to be a worthwhile contributor.
 
On reflection I'll take a more serious stab at this, than my previously facetious post.

First off, I don't believe in Utopia. Utopia implies a perfect society, which implies than Man is perfectable...which I do not believe. It would require changing human nature dramatically and universally, or else it would require a totalitarian dictatorship of Orwellian proportions, both of which I reject as either impossible or undesireable.

I do believe we could do better than present...so let's call mine "Neartopia". :mrgreen:

I've become somewhat convinced that the form of government, ie Monarchy, Oligarchy, Democracy, Republic...while important, is not as important as certain other key elements.

First, understanding that government is chiefly about raw power, and most of the rest of it is window dressing to make that raw power more palatable. Over time the "respectability of age" will give a government a veneer of legitimacy and authority...and authority is distinct from power. Power is raw force; authority is the ability to compel obedience without actually using that force. Superman can (mythically) stop a speeding car with his hands, which is power --- a traffic cop can "stop" a speeding car with an upraised hand without even touching the car, which is authority.

Limited government is the foremost. Any form of gov't whose power is unlimited, especially if that power is unchecked by some effective form of accountability, is doomed to become corrupt and tyrannical.

Balance of power: "The People" must have sufficient power that the Government fears to push them too far, lest they rebel. Some distribution or segmenting of authority into competing/hostile divisions can help create checks and balances also.

Minority rule: in many ways it is desireable that the ruling class or electorate be a minority. This might seem odd, but this is because a minority must always fear the majority, if the majority be aroused against them. This is the danger of pure democracy, because a ruling majority has little need to fear a nonruling minority...the ruling majority has more manpower.

Accountability: there must be a mechanism to hold rulers accountable for ruling poorly, selfishly, or with undue harshness, and corruption must be punished severely.

Sacrifice: This one needs some explanation. Followers give power to their leader through their obedience: they "lend" him the sovereignty of their ability and resources, making him far more powerful than he is alone. To lead willing followers (as opposed to compelled followers), the leader must do or be many things: capable and trustworthy to be sure, but just as importantly as his followers sacrifice to give him power, he must sacrifice his Self for the sake of the needs of those he leads. That is, his decisions are based not on his own needs or preferences, but those of his followers. I found this out through hard experience, but that's a story for another time. Requiring some kind of symbolic but real sacrifice on the part of those who lead would be a step in the right direction.



Now, let us consider The People:

The People must retain the majority power, at least in potential, of armed might, or risk being enslaved by the government. The People must retain the ability to criticize the gov't and speak against it, or ditto.

Franchise should be limited. Those who do not contribute to society as a whole should not have a voice in its rule, because they demonstrate irresponsible behavior and are unfit to rule. Voting is a form of rule. Franchise (voting rights) should be restricted to those who have demonstrated great competence in real-world activities, or those who have sacrificed for the greater good.

"He governs best, who governs least": The key to this is actually a responsible citizenry. IMO the way to make a citizenry responsible is to allow them to experience raw reality and suffer the consequences of their bad decisions...this breeds responsible adults. The social-welfare course breeds irresponsible dependents, who make good slaves but poor citizens.

On the one hand: Local conditions result in local needs varying from larger-scale needs. Therefore those aspects of government that most affect the citizen's daily life should largely be local or regional, rather than on a larger scale such as national. Local/regional autonomy within certain limits is therefore desirable. OTOH we now live in a society where people are extremely mobile...I'm on the East Coast and could travel to the West Coast in a matter of hours. People often live in several different States and regions over the course of a lifetime nowadays. It is more than merely annoying that what is legal in my state could make me a felon in an adjacent state, merely by my movement of couple hundred miles. In that sense, a more homogenous and uniform criminal code might be desireable, whereas economic, regulatory, civil and misdemeanor laws might be more suitable for local autonomy. This is a fine line to walk.



There's a lot more but I'll stop there for now.


SO, here's what I propose based on these principles:

A Republic, divided into three branches much like our own, with a Federal government and various State governments much like our own. Now to the differences:

Limits to government:

Elected officials, and appointed officials above a certain level (say, the top 1000 bureaucratic administrators), will have to sacrifice their personal comfort and wealth in order to rule. Any assets they have exceeding $3 million 2009USD will be donated to the public treasury upon their assumption of office. During their time in office, their needs will be seen to from the public treasury, including all necessary activities relating to their office; however, their housing, food, entertainment and luxuries will be as spartan as those of their average citizen and no more will be spent on same than the per-capita GDP (GDP divided by population), nor will they have access to any personal fortune they may have remaining (assets will be placed in a blind trust until they leave office).

Term limits: two terms in any given office, no more than 12 years continuous in political elective or appointive office then the person is ineligible for 5 years. Thus, they will have more empathy for "the people" as they know they will not be able to remain of the "ruling class" perpetually.

Limited government: the Constitution will spell out what powers each branch of government has, and it has those alone. Amendment should be possible but difficult. This differs little from what we have now in theory, but I propose a department dedicated to overseeing that government does not exceed these limits which is more attuned to "the people" than the current Supreme Court. I would propose a list of voting citizens with certain qualifications (such as a certain level of education and achievement), from which is chosen at random a committee of 100 to serve one year; this "Citizen's Committee" has oversight and can "veto" any act of government through a 2/3rds majority.

Limited Government II: no bill shall pass without a 2/3rds majority in both Houses; a 3/4ths majority is required to override a Presidential veto.

Accountability: all elected officials shall be subject to recall votes, the exact mechanism of which will be determined...for rule of thumb, make it a little easier than the system they have in California at this time. Also, the Citizen's Committee (above) will have the authority to remove any elected or appointed official for any reason on a 2/3rds vote.
The penalty for taking bribes or other serious criminal malfeasance of office will be death.

State sovereignty: Any State can seceed if 2/3rds of its population vote to do so. There will be an annual Governor's Council that can veto any act of the Federal government by a 2/3'rds majority vote.

The States will be fully subject to the Bill of Rights and may not violate them; this will be overseen by both the Supreme Court and the Citizen's Committee.

Local governments (county, city) may enact such laws as are beneficial to their local jurisdiction, but may not enact felony criminal laws; only regulations with reasonable fines and misdemeanor crimes. State pre-emption of local law.

Balance of Power: The standing army (full time), plus all Federal law enforcement or personnel with enforcement powers, may not exceed 1% of the general population nor have a total budget exceeding 5% of GDP. All reserves (regular reserves or "select militia") will be State-based, under the command of the State Governor, and only released to Federal service if the State Governor allows it. Reserve military will not exceed 2% of the State's population or 10% of the State's gross economic product.

Too long...Continued Part II below:
 
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Balance of Power II: The Federal government may only tax imports and exports, and may only do so at a universal/uniform rate. The Federal government's only other ability to tax, is to levy a tax against the revenues of the several States (the State's government "take")...which is subject to veto by the annual Governor's Council, btw.
The States will be allowed to tax income up to 10%, and sales tax up to 10%, and commercial property (but not family farms or private residences!) up to 0.5% annually. No other taxes may be levied without Constitutional Amendment, and no Amendments shall pass without a 2/3rds majority of the voting public support.


Relating to "The People":

Franchise will be limited. There will be three ways to achieve franchise.
1. Military service. 4 years of honorable service in the Regular military, or 8 years in the Reserves, allows franchise for life without further cost.
2. Financial success. Given that a common measure of success is financial, and that achieving it typically requires competence and intelligence and practicality, and usually decent enough business ethics that your customers, partners and creditors support you, the payment of $300,000 2009USD will buy franchise for one person. This requires a person to make a substantial sacrifice to achieve franchise, or else to be so extremely wealthy that the amount is negligible. Possibly those with inherited wealth will be excluded until such time as they have doubled the estate that they inherited.
3. In recognition of the importance of parenthood and families to society, those couples who have four children which they supported through their own efforts and raised to adulthood, and whose children have committed no felonies to age 18 nor been incarcerated or institutionalized for any reason, and whose adult children are self-supporting or in military service or lawfully married at the time of application, will also be granted lifetime franchise.

Freedom of speech and religion guaranteed as a near absolute, specifically including sedition. Right to keep and bear arms suitable for military service (ie anything a well-equipped modern infantryman would have), self-defense, sport or other lawful purposes, and to carry same. Shall-issue State permit to own heavier weapons like artillery, but only for those with franchise or engaged in militia service, and a clean background. This balances the power of the standing army and the reserves against the power of the Fed and State.

Social Welfare, as it exists today, to be ended. Any citizen may, once in his lifetime, apply for assistance. This will take the form of gov't sponsored education for up to 4 years, along with payments to allow for a spartan minimalist livelihood, to be retrained for a useful occupation. Anyone who takes this option gives up their franchise if any, and is no longer qualified to be a "qualifying child" for Type 3 Franchise (above) if such takes place prior to that application.

Self-destructive behaviors will not be crimes, but actions damaging to others will be fully prosecuted and intoxication/drugs will be an aggravating factor, not a mitigating one. Other than noted above, charity will be a private matter, not a public one. Screw up your life, deal with the consequences.

Free market as a principle, because free market capitalism produces more prosperity for more people than any other system. Some reasonable minimal regulations, yes. No corporate welfare or legal privileges for corporations other than those available for any sole proprietor or partnership biz; no bailouts no matter how big the corporation. No monopolies. In fact I might go so far as to add an extra tax on any corporation that gets too big... I don't think big-corporatism and capitalism necessarily go hand-in-hand. Family farms and Mom-n-Pop businesses should be able to compete.

That covers the basics adequately I suppose. Not Utopia, because it won't be perfect, but I think it would improve upon what we've got and address some of the issues that trouble us these days.

G.
 
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I don't know what I would consider them, other than children, but their education would consist of basic foundations and concepts early on(simple math, language/writing skills, science and history). Fitness/health and self defense classes would be mandatory as well(in my utopia these would be requisite for advancement as well). At a certain point in development, in order to ingrain the rank structure of the adult world, they would begin to emulate this on a smaller level within the classroom/school.

So your proposed rank structure does not begin until late adolescence, and I would presume prior to this that children receive more or less the same quality of education. That's what I was looking for, and I approve.

But while their focus would likely be on their strength, I would require that some attention(in their cirriculum) be paid to their weaknesses as well.

Certainly. If your warriors and your thinkers are separate classes of people, eventually all of your fighting will be done by morons and all of your thinking done by cowards. (Wish I could give proper credit for the saying. It's not mine.) Not to mention, that an unbalanced education leads to an unbalanced mind-- and an unbalanced mind can topple the body and soul along with it.
 
Certainly. If your warriors and your thinkers are separate classes of people, eventually all of your fighting will be done by morons and all of your thinking done by cowards. (Wish I could give proper credit for the saying. It's not mine.) Not to mention, that an unbalanced education leads to an unbalanced mind-- and an unbalanced mind can topple the body and soul along with it.

My reasons for attacking the personal weaknesses really stem from the idea that while people are doing the jobs they are best suited for, in order to have a society that can function properly, the various sects need to have the ability to understand and interact with their counterparts to some degree, and how it interrelates and contributes to the society as a whole. Academia needs to realize the importance of the farmer, and how his contributions allow the academics the luxury of time to theorize and advance knowledge, as well as the importance of the solider and how his presence acts as a deterrent to those who would not respect the "pen" of the academic and would cut him down all too easily with the sword. And the solider and farmer need to understand that the advancement of knowledge, in the academic community eventually benefits them through increased productivity and advancement through technology and communitcation skills/techniques. With an exposure to some elements of what the other does, it can only garner appreciation for how it all fits together on a macro level.
The idea that it rounds out a person, and strengthens them overall, is indeed a net benefit to both the individual and the society.
The main thing I would want to bring to the utopian society, is that at every level, there is some warrior-like ethos that permeates the entire society. That doesn't mean english professors are trying to arm-lock or choke out physics professors, but that when a crisis arrives, the average citizen can respond in an orderly fashion, and with full autonomy of their own defense/welfare. Although they may not be the experts in crisis response, they can still act aggressively and confidently until such help would arrive.
 
The main thing I would want to bring to the utopian society, is that at every level, there is some warrior-like ethos that permeates the entire society. That doesn't mean english professors are trying to arm-lock or choke out physics professors, but that when a crisis arrives, the average citizen can respond in an orderly fashion, and with full autonomy of their own defense/welfare. Although they may not be the experts in crisis response, they can still act aggressively and confidently until such help would arrive.

This used to be far more the case, before certain elements started emasculating our society and pacifism became a prevalent pseudo-position.

I say "pseudo" because most self-proclaimed pacifists I've known were neither peaceful, nor consistent in their philosophy, nor even very well-informed on its full implications.

When I was young it seemed that people were far more inclined to handle their own affairs, conflicts and emergencies than is the case today. A "bump in the night" was met by the head of household with a shotgun, and the police were mainly called to arrest the perp that was being held at gunpoint or pick up his corpse. Minor injuries were attended to by whomever in the household was most adept at first aid... you went to the doctor for something serious, not for every little nick, bruise and hangnail.

Self-reliance does seem to be in decline.
 
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