What Would It take To Change Your Mind? [W:111]

[rhinefire]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Carl Sagan said, "I'll believe in aliens from outer space when I see one". That sums it all up for me.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

The topic of the OP is, 'What would change your mind?' NOT, 'Why does it matter?' however, I will add some clarification for you. I would say that if you are entering into a debate then it is dishonest to do so if you are simply not going to be open to understanding an opposing point of view and/or changing your own view if sufficient grounds were presented for you to do so.

So ESSENTIALLY...if I'm not going to change my view to yours I am dishonest. You do understand that that setting of standards is in itself dishonest because you have intentionally set the bar AGAINST those with religion. Religion is not about proof or evidence. It is up to the individual to have faith. And yes. It does get more complicated than that, but that is the simplest and easiest way to explain it.

So, this is a simple litmus test as to whether it is actually even worth debating with some people in real life or on here. It is arguable that by doing so on here, you can expose the mendacity and dishonesty of their tactics but, the nuances of debating such a person, in my opinion, are lost on many people. If you want to discuss it further I am ok with starting a thread on why having an open mind in context matters.

In the meantime, evidence would change my mind and it appears that you are saying nothing would change yours.

So the only reason to have a discussion is so that you can change your mind? That makes no sense. Perhaps the object of a discussion has nothing to do with changing my mind or yours. You have again set a standard that makes no sense. The "test" isn't aimed correctly.

Perhaps I go into a discussion to evaluate WHY I believe what I do. I am "willing to be disturbed." Are you? If you do not get that, I suggest you read the essay "willing to be disturbed." It is a quick and easy read for anyone who had English 101/1001 in college.

 

[jet57]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Hey - you guys support the idea of Adam and Eve when you presented "mitochondrial Eve," and the "Y-chromosomal Adam."

Y-Chromosomal Adam Lived 208,300 Years Ago, Says New Study | Genetics | Sci-News.com

Gotta love it!

It's the proverbial Adam: the so called first of modern humans.

 

[William Rea]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

So ESSENTIALLY...if I'm not going to change my view to yours I am dishonest. You do understand that that setting of standards is in itself dishonest because you have intentionally set the bar AGAINST those with religion. Religion is not about proof or evidence. It is up to the individual to have faith. And yes. It does get more complicated than that, but that is the simplest and easiest way to explain it.




So the only reason to have a discussion is so that you can change your mind? That makes no sense. Perhaps the object of a discussion has nothing to do with changing my mind or yours. You have again set a standard that makes no sense. The "test" isn't aimed correctly.

Perhaps I go into a discussion to evaluate WHY I believe what I do. I am "willing to be disturbed." Are you? If you do not get that, I suggest you read the essay "willing to be disturbed." It is a quick and easy read for anyone who had English 101/1001 in college.

Read what you like into it, you asked, 'Why does it matter?' and I gave my opinion that you have decided to strawman and take offence at rather than address, clearly not so willing to be disturbed huh? Quelle surprise there. Rather than take offence at your rather juvenile '101' sideswipe, I'll take a pass and move on to some more worthwhile comments.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Read what you like into it, you asked, 'Why does it matter?' and I gave my opinion that you have decided to strawman and take offence at rather than address, clearly not so willing to be disturbed huh? Quelle surprise there. Rather than take offence at your rather juvenile '101' sideswipe, I'll take a pass and move on to some more worthwhile comments.

Talk about strawmen.

1) I'm not offended. Merely observing.

2) I meant nothing by the comment. Just that it is a quick read for someone with basic college English under their belt. That means it would take 10 minutes or so to read. Your strawman here is that I meant to be offensive. I didn't. I actually assumed you would have basic college English under your belt.

3) Again. There is more than one way to skin a cat as it were. There area variety of reasons to be involved in a debate. Having no intention of changing one's mine does NOT reflect dishonesty. Especially if one is upfront about it. I gave you the reason. I like to reinforce why I believe the way I do. I will even give you another little nugget that may explain others:

I like to set the record straight.

Ever notice how often the atheists on this forum will stereotype all Christians an place them under the same banner? I do. Hence part of my reason for discussion. Here? Perhaps I was just giving a religious perspective that may counter fundamentalist views. That viewing being: why should I care how to covert you? Why should it matter what evidence you need?

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

It's the proverbial Adam: the so called first of modern humans.

View attachment 67182558

Which IS an interesting concept. Right? Especially for those of us Christians who don't see the bible as a Literal word of God. But a metaphorical word written by men inspired by God. Men who didn't have words like "mitochondrial" and "Deoxyribonucleic acid."



Then again. I'm Protestant and Presbyterian. I don't speak for the whole group.

 

[Declan]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Which IS an interesting concept. Right? Especially for those of us Christians who don't see the bible as a Literal word of God. But a metaphorical word written by men inspired by God. Men who didn't have words like "mitochondrial" and "Deoxyribonucleic acid."



Then again. I'm Protestant and Presbyterian. I don't speak for the whole group.

If you think the Bible is a metaphorical, then what makes you think that Jesus isn't just a metaphor too?

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

If you think the Bible is a metaphorical, then what makes you think that Jesus isn't just a metaphor too?

Now I know this is a REALLY hard concept for many to get. But it is this thing called faith. Does my faith impact you at all?

 

[Declan]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Now I know this is a REALLY hard concept for many to get. But it is this thing called faith. Does my faith impact you at all?

Since you indicated that you are a member of a church that exerts political influence, then yes, your religion impacts everybody. I was just asking your for clarification since your position seems a fairy ungrounded faith.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Since you indicated that you are a member of a church that exerts political influence, then yes, your religion impacts everybody. I was just asking your for clarification since your position seems a fairy ungrounded faith.

Sorry. No. My faith has nothing to do with you. And why do I need to have a negative attached to the frame?

 

[Chagos]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

............................... stay on topic.............

Yeah, why don't ya?:2razz:

 

[tosca1]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence.

If evidence was presented to me that explained any supernatural phenomenon to the point that being skeptical was unreasonable I would accept it and change my mind. I am equally skeptical of any such claims and any other extraordinary claims in the absence of evidence. I default to skeptical just as I do for Flying Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and Faeries.

What would change your mind from your current position?

Well, it's hard to believe that any evidence(s) would really change your mind.

Your own position shows that your belief isn't based on any evidences at all. There isn't even any logical reasons behind it.

In fact, your atheistic belief contradicts science....so, why do you think you'd need any evidences? :shrug:



Then, there's also the question of whether you'd accept or even consider any evidences presented to you. Of course, you won't accept any personal testimonies - and I don't expect you to, since you're a non-believer.


If you'd closed your mind to science and logical arguments, what more is left to convince you?

 

[tosca1]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence.

If evidence was presented to me that explained any supernatural phenomenon to the point that being skeptical was unreasonable I would accept it and change my mind.

I am equally skeptical of any such claims and any other extraordinary claims in the absence of evidence. I default to skeptical just as I do for Flying Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and Faeries.

What would change your mind from your current position?

Furthermore, when flying pink unicorns and faeries are used to compare with existence of God - that shows a tremendous lack of understanding. The query no longer is philosophical but more fit to be in other sections .....perhaps, special places like "conspiracy theories," or similar?

Just to point out that there's no comparison: who among learned people (scientists and philosophers) have argued and written numerous books that insist faeries and pink unicorns exist?

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Furthermore, when flying pink unicorns and faeries are used to compare with existence of God - that shows a tremendous lack of understanding. The query no longer is philosophical but more fit to be in other sections .....perhaps, special places like "conspiracy theories," or similar?

Just to point out that there's no comparison: who among learned people (scientists and philosophers) have argued and written numerous books that insist faeries and pink unicorns exist?

Don't forget that the comparison is done out of condescension. There is no reason to do other than that.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Furthermore, when flying pink unicorns and faeries are used to compare with existence of God - that shows a tremendous lack of understanding. The query no longer is philosophical but more fit to be in other sections .....perhaps, special places like "conspiracy theories," or similar?

Just to point out that there's no comparison: who among learned people (scientists and philosophers) have argued and written numerous books that insist faeries and pink unicorns exist?

So what imaginary being are we supposed to compare your god to? santa claus?

Just because a lot of people took your fairy tale seriously doesn't make it any more true.

People took zeus and the other greek/roman gods/goddesses seriously for a very long time. Egypt had their own pantheon of gods/goddesses that were taken very seriously. There are many books out there about fairies and leprechauns and nature gods/goddesses.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

So what imaginary being are we supposed to compare your god to? santa claus?

Just because a lot of people took your fairy tale seriously doesn't make it any more true.

People took zeus and the other greek/roman gods/goddesses seriously for a very long time. Egypt had their own pantheon of gods/goddesses that were taken very seriously. There are many books out there about fairies and leprechauns and nature gods/goddesses.

You are supposed to compare it to other religions. Even the Greek myths. But to compare someone's God to a unicorn is clearly not done for anything more than condescension and spite.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

You are supposed to compare it to other religions. Even the Greek myths. But to compare someone's God to a unicorn is clearly not done for anything more than condescension and spite.

Gods and unicorns are equally imaginary in my opinion. I do not see anything spiteful or condescending in holding that opinion.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Gods and unicorns are equally imaginary in my opinion. I do not see anything spiteful or condescending in holding that opinion.

How many people worship unicorns?

 

[paddymcdougall]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

You are supposed to compare it to other religions. Even the Greek myths. But to compare someone's God to a unicorn is clearly not done for anything more than condescension and spite.

All religions have the same problem - it's about evidence. This op wasn't about comparative religion. It was what would get me to change my mind. In order for me to believe in a god/goddess - or pink unicorns or spotted elephants flying across the sky - I need evidence.

There is nothing condescending. I am just pointing out that in order for me to believe in something imaginary I need evidence.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

There is nothing condescending. I am just pointing out that in order for me to believe in something imaginary I need evidence.

Exactly right.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

How many people worship unicorns?

"Though written accounts of Unicorns date back only two and a half millenia, depictions of the one-horned beast can be found as far back as Humankind's history goes. He was known and worshipped in ancient Babylon, the very crucible in which civilisation was born. Two of the guiding powers in these times were the Sun and Moon, represented by the Lion and the Unicorn. The Lion, golden yellow, ruling through strength and dominating all, constantly chases the Unicorn, silver white, who rules through harmony and strength of cooperation. Seldom does the Lion ever catch his prey, yet when he does, it is the Sun and not the Moon that is obscured."

The History of the Unicorn - from our point of view
https://books.google.be/books?id=Ma...epage&q=were unicorns ever worshipped&f=false

http://www.johnkettler.com/unicorns-fact-fiction-post-coming-soon/

 

[William Rea]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

All religions have the same problem - it's about evidence. This op wasn't about comparative religion. It was what would get me to change my mind. In order for me to believe in a god/goddess - or pink unicorns or spotted elephants flying across the sky - I need evidence.

There is nothing condescending. I am just pointing out that in order for me to believe in something imaginary I need evidence.

The entitlement culture is strong, unless we are talking about their entitlement they are not happy. As you quite rightly point out, this thread is about what would make you change your mind and NOT apologetics.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

The entitlement culture is strong, unless we are talking about their entitlement they are not happy. As you quite rightly point out, this thread is about what would make you change your mind and NOT apologetics.

I would change my mind if the Christian god appeared in the sky and on every computer, TV and cinema screen and announced his presence. In the OT he manifested himself quite a lot but seems to have given that up nowadays.

 

[paddymcdougall]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

"Though written accounts of Unicorns date back only two and a half millenia, depictions of the one-horned beast can be found as far back as Humankind's history goes. He was known and worshipped in ancient Babylon, the very crucible in which civilisation was born. Two of the guiding powers in these times were the Sun and Moon, represented by the Lion and the Unicorn. The Lion, golden yellow, ruling through strength and dominating all, constantly chases the Unicorn, silver white, who rules through harmony and strength of cooperation. Seldom does the Lion ever catch his prey, yet when he does, it is the Sun and not the Moon that is obscured."

The History of the Unicorn - from our point of view
https://books.google.be/books?id=Ma...epage&q=were unicorns ever worshipped&f=false

Unicorns--fact or fiction? New cryptozoology post coming soon!

Thank you for this post! Good to know.

 

[Logicman]

Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

I would change my mind if the Christian god appeared in the sky and on every computer, TV and cinema screen and announced his presence. In the OT he manifested himself quite a lot but seems to have given that up nowadays.

The Bible says every eye shall see him, whether that's spiritual or on TV or whatever.

But I have a feeling you might see him before then.