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What Would It take To Change Your Mind? [W:111]

William Rea

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Evidence.

If evidence was presented to me that explained any supernatural phenomenon to the point that being skeptical was unreasonable I would accept it and change my mind. I am equally skeptical of any such claims and any other extraordinary claims in the absence of evidence. I default to skeptical just as I do for Flying Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and Faeries.

What would change your mind from your current position?
 

the_recruit

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

If the 2nd Coming begins and Jesus comes down from the sky riding an Ice Dragon.

I'd start to re-evaluate some things.
 

WCH

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence.

If evidence was presented to me that explained any supernatural phenomenon to the point that being skeptical was unreasonable I would accept it and change my mind. I am equally skeptical of any such claims and any other extraordinary claims in the absence of evidence. I default to skeptical just as I do for Flying Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and Faeries.

What would change your mind from your current position?
For someone who experiences [what you call] a super-natural event, how would they they provide 'evidence'?
 

Skeptic Bob

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Yep, evidence.

Look, when I first heard of things like quantum entanglement/"spooky" action at a distance, and time dilation with regards to speed and gravity, I found them next to impossible to believe. Frankly, they sound more absurd than the existence of ghosts or gods on the surface. But they have been demonstrated empirically again and again. So I believe in them.

I have never seen such empirical evidence for ghosts or gods or any number of other supernatural claims. Show me evidence that is compelling enough and I will believe, just as I now believe that time passes slightly more slowly at sea level than it does at the top of Mount Everest.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

I don't see how it's possible to disprove the birth-cycle and the gift-cycle to me, to disprove the existence of the gods and the wights.

But if you could show me evidence that the spiritual underpinnings of the world worked differently, I would have to revisit my faith.
 

zyzygy

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

I don't see how it's possible to disprove the birth-cycle and the gift-cycle to me, to disprove the existence of the gods and the wights.

But if you could show me evidence that the spiritual underpinnings of the world worked differently, I would have to revisit my faith.
What are birth cycles and gift cycles? I got a a bicycle once for my birthday, is that what you mean? Wights? There are Barrow Wights in the Lord Of The Rings. They were nasties.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

What are birth cycles and gift cycles? I got a a bicycle once for my birthday, is that what you mean? Wights? There are Barrow Wights in the Lord Of The Rings. They were nasties.
The birth cycle is the cycle of birth-death-rebirth in which parts of our souls are reborn again in our family lines, building upon our luck. The gift-cycle is the act of giving gifts back and forth between friends, family, and allies-- and especially the gods-- that builds our luck. They are central to my faith, which is about building the luck of our families and communities by observing and respecting these cycles.

And "wights" are any kind of spirit, up to and including the gods themselves.
 

paddymcdougall

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

The birth cycle is the cycle of birth-death-rebirth in which parts of our souls are reborn again in our family lines, building upon our luck. The gift-cycle is the act of giving gifts back and forth between friends, family, and allies-- and especially the gods-- that builds our luck. They are central to my faith, which is about building the luck of our families and communities by observing and respecting these cycles.

And "wights" are any kind of spirit, up to and including the gods themselves.
Well, that's an interesting outlook. Do you have proof that parts of souls are reborn in the family lines? or that giving gifts builds your luck due to gods?
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Well, that's an interesting outlook. Do you have proof that parts of souls are reborn in the family lines? or that giving gifts builds your luck due to gods?
Nope. That's why I mentioned the impossibility of disproving such a notion.
 

catch22

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

The birth cycle is the cycle of birth-death-rebirth in which parts of our souls are reborn again in our family lines, building upon our luck. The gift-cycle is the act of giving gifts back and forth between friends, family, and allies-- and especially the gods-- that builds our luck. They are central to my faith, which is about building the luck of our families and communities by observing and respecting these cycles.

And "wights" are any kind of spirit, up to and including the gods themselves.
What is your faith? I've never heard of anything like it and it seems very interesting.
 

fschmidt

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence is a great criteria. It's too bad that modern culture refuses to use it. What evidence is there for feminism, for universal suffrage, for modern economic policy, or for virtually all other beliefs of modern culture? None.
 

paddymcdougall

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Nope. That's why I mentioned the impossibility of disproving such a notion.
Then I'll have to continue to not believe in it. If over the millenia there has been no evidence, it's unlikely to be true. But I can see where it's comforting.
 

paddymcdougall

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence is a great criteria. It's too bad that modern culture refuses to use it. What evidence is there for feminism, for universal suffrage, for modern economic policy, or for virtually all other beliefs of modern culture? None.
Evidence? Feminism and universal suffrage are here. Modern economic policy is based on analysis of what has happened before and what we want our economic goals to be.
 

Logicman

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence.

If evidence was presented to me that explained any supernatural phenomenon to the point that being skeptical was unreasonable I would accept it and change my mind. I am equally skeptical of any such claims and any other extraordinary claims in the absence of evidence. I default to skeptical just as I do for Flying Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and Faeries.

What would change your mind from your current position?
You believe that abiogenesis occurred? Where's your evidence for that?
 

jet57

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

For someone who experiences [what you call] a super-natural event, how would they they provide 'evidence'?
Well, one can't if it's a personal event, that's what makes it what it is. The resurrection however is not that sort of personal event. The resurrection only speaks to an after life. But Jesus' body being gone does not mean that sat up, stood up and then was lifted into the clouds. That is only taken on faith.
 

jet57

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Evidence.

If evidence was presented to me that explained any supernatural phenomenon to the point that being skeptical was unreasonable I would accept it and change my mind. I am equally skeptical of any such claims and any other extraordinary claims in the absence of evidence. I default to skeptical just as I do for Flying Pink Unicorns, Santa Claus and Faeries.

What would change your mind from your current position?

If Jesus appeared before me and told me that it was all true and to take the Bible literally, then I would change my perspective. People have often wondered what the "Christ" was, add I've read that "Christ" is the consciousness of God. This tells us that Jesus was no different really from the rest of us, and that I believe.
 

jet57

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

You believe that abiogenesis occurred? Where's your evidence for that?
I don't know how you would derive that from the OP, and you have zero evidence that it did occur, however Darwinism and archaeology prove beyond a doubt that God creating Adam from dust is a perfect metaphor.
 

Logicman

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

I don't know how you would derive that from the OP, and you have zero evidence that it did occur, however Darwinism and archaeology prove beyond a doubt that God creating Adam from dust is a perfect metaphor.
There's zero evidence for abiogenesis. Period. If you think otherwise present it. No opinions, just hard evidence.
 

jet57

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

There's zero evidence for abiogenesis. Period. If you think otherwise present it. No opinions, just hard evidence.
Science clearly shows that living matter took chemical construction, environmental requirements and billions of years for living organisms to first appear and then mutate into organisms that can be recorded. THAT is what I meant about God, Adam and dust being a perfect metaphor for that series of events. When one applies just simple logic to Genesis, it becomes very clear.
 

Logicman

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Science clearly shows that living matter took chemical construction, environmental requirements and billions of years for living organisms to first appear and then mutate into organisms that can be recorded.
I still don't see any evidence for abiogenesis. So quit beating around the bush and show me the hard evidence that it happened.
 

csbrown28

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

Logic is right, there is no testable verifiable evidence yet. All we have is speculation based on ideas that have been proven, but not enough to put the hypothesis to a test. What he's trying to do is equivocate the ideas that he holds, which aren't based on anything that can be shown to be true via a falsifiable verifiable test, with the hypothesis of abiogenesis, which as a hypothesis cannot be tested as it would require that one actually create life in order to be confirmed as true. Something we can't do....yet.

What he's not telling you, is that even if we could create life from organic compounds, all we'd get is a shift in tactics. he'd simply claim that we took the pieces that god created and through a different process made life.

There is no equivocating the supernatural claims of the bible and "genisis" with the science based ideas of abiogenesis, which are as yet "proven", but they are based on ideas that have been proven.

I don't know if I'll be alive when we finally figure it out, but I suspect that when there is a verifiable test for creating life, there won't be some paradigm shift in the way people think about the moment of creation, religion and god, just a shift in the arguments that deny the science.
 

jet57

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

I still don't see any evidence for abiogenesis. So quit beating around the bush and show me the hard evidence that it happened.
The evidence is all over the world. You keep dodging the "metaphor" part of my argument.
 

Logicman

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Re: What Would It take To Change Your Mind?

The evidence is all over the world. You keep dodging the "metaphor" part of my argument.
OK, so you have nothing but the usual blather.
 
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