What negotiation?

[Deuce]

I've asked this question a lot but can't ever seem to get a straight answer:

In this alleged negotiation over continued funding of our government, what are the Democrats getting in exchange for Republican demands? Yes, Republicans have altered those demands, I know. But what were the Democrats getting in the first place?

 

[davidtaylorjr]

I've asked this question a lot but can't ever seem to get a straight answer:

In this alleged negotiation over continued funding of our government, what are the Democrats getting in exchange for Republican demands? Yes, Republicans have altered those demands, I know. But what were the Democrats getting in the first place?

No cuts of the rest of their entitlement programs, and the raising of the debt ceiling. Those would be pretty big.

 

[Deuce]

No cuts of the rest of their entitlement programs, and the raising of the debt ceiling. Those would be pretty big.

:lamo

So the Republicans "offer" is to release some more hostages.

And please. The GOP needs to raise the debt ceiling just as much. The United States defaulting has serious implications for our economy and the world's.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

:lamo

So the Republicans "offer" is to release some more hostages.

And please. The GOP needs to raise the debt ceiling just as much. The United States defaulting has serious implications for our economy and the world's.

And Obama and the Democrats are the ones keeping that from happening by not coming to the table. Republicans have tried to have discussions repeatedly. The Democrats refuse to talk.

 

[Deuce]

And Obama and the Democrats are the ones keeping that from happening by not coming to the table. Republicans have tried to have discussions repeatedly. The Democrats refuse to talk.

So the "negotiation" is:

"Can we have your house?"
"No."
"Can we have half your house?"
"No."
"Can we have your car?"
"No."
"If you don't give us one of them we're going to burn the house down!"

And then crying about Democrats not negotiating.


161 Republican amendments in exchange for no votes.
Passed 40+ attempts by the Republicans to repeal it.
Passed a Supreme Court challenge.

We already negotiated these terms. You lost.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

So the "negotiation" is:

"Can we have your house?"
"No."
"Can we have half your house?"
"No."
"Can we have your car?"
"No."
"If you don't give us one of them we're going to burn the house down!"

And then crying about Democrats not negotiating.


161 Republican amendments in exchange for no votes.
Passed 40+ attempts by the Republicans to repeal it.
Passed a Supreme Court challenge.

We already negotiated these terms. You lost.

:spin: :alert typical liberal ignorant thinking.

 

[ToastyOats]

And Obama and the Democrats are the ones keeping that from happening by not coming to the table. Republicans have tried to have discussions repeatedly. The Democrats refuse to talk.

The Senate passed the House's CR, sans the anti-ACA amendments. The House CR has less discretionary spending than the Senate's or the president's plan, almost to what Paul Ryan wanted in his budget. In a sense the Democrats have already compromised with the Republicans by agreeing to their leaner discretionary budget for the new fiscal year. Ball is in the GOP court, all they have to do is pass their own CR without any amendments or riders or whatever. Should be easy, they got something from the Dems without needing to give something in return.

 

[Slyfox696]

No cuts of the rest of their entitlement programs, and the raising of the debt ceiling. Those would be pretty big.

So Democrats get what they already have and get to see Congress authorize to pay the bills Congress already incurred?

That's not really negotiation.

 

[ToastyOats]

So Democrats get what they already have and get to see Congress authorize to pay the bills Congress already incurred?

That's not really negotiation.

Sounds more like "Steady as she goes!" to me.

 

[Perotista]

So the "negotiation" is:

"Can we have your house?"
"No."
"Can we have half your house?"
"No."
"Can we have your car?"
"No."
"If you don't give us one of them we're going to burn the house down!"

And then crying about Democrats not negotiating.


161 Republican amendments in exchange for no votes.
Passed 40+ attempts by the Republicans to repeal it.
Passed a Supreme Court challenge.

We already negotiated these terms. You lost.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't all this start because the House republicans tied the defunding of Obamacare to the CR. I don't know what all has changed. If this is the care, I think the Republicans are very stupid. Look at any health care poll and the majority of Americans oppose Obamacare. Why in the world didn't the House Republicans just pass the CR without the defunding of Obamacare and let the voters speak in November of 2014.

If Obamacare is only near as bad as the GOP says it is, then the senate in 2014 should be theirs. The numbers are in their favor. As far as I am concerned, this is the wrong fight at the wrong time. But when it comes to playing the political game, the republicans aren't that bright. They very well may be throwing away any chances at all of gaining a majority in the senate next year. I don't blame the Democrats for standing their ground.

 

[WCH]

:lamo

So the Republicans "offer" is to release some more hostages.

And please. The GOP needs to raise the debt ceiling just as much. The United States defaulting has serious implications for our economy and the world's.

Obama says not to ex pect anything and with theFedGov taking in $240 billion per month, there's no chance of default.

 

[Deuce]

Obama says not to ex pect anything and with theFedGov taking in $240 billion per month, there's no chance of default.

Um, we've literally already hit the debt ceiling. Money can be shuffled around via accounting tricks and selecting which bills to pay on which day, but those tricks run out on the 17th if something doesn't change.

Our mandated-by-law expenditures exceed our income.

 

[WCH]

Um, we've literally already hit the debt ceiling. Money can be shuffled around via accounting tricks and selecting which bills to pay on which day, but those tricks run out on the 17th if something doesn't change.

Our mandated-by-law expenditures exceed our income.

The only way we (as a country) can default is to not pay the $20 billion [per month] interest payment. {which gives us an idea just how screwed we are}

 

[CanadaJohn]

I've asked this question a lot but can't ever seem to get a straight answer:

In this alleged negotiation over continued funding of our government, what are the Democrats getting in exchange for Republican demands? Yes, Republicans have altered those demands, I know. But what were the Democrats getting in the first place?

The Democrats got increased levels in spending - not the amount they wanted, but more - than the approved spending levels under the sequester.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Sounds more like "Steady as she goes!" to me.

Right, steady as she goes. Just like when you're on a shopping spree at the local mall and you just keep handing over the credit card until the nice clerk at the cash register tells you your card has be denied and confiscated.

 

[Deuce]

The Democrats got increased levels in spending - not the amount they wanted, but more - than the approved spending levels under the sequester.

And they've already offered spending levels very near to the new and improved (read: more cuts) Ryan plan. Just as long as the GOP drops this ACA bull****.

So they aren't getting the spending they wanted either. And by the way, continued government operation is not an offer either. That's the threat. When a mugger says "Give me your money or I shoot you," it's not a negotiation in which he gets your money and you "get" the "I don't shoot you" part.

 

[CanadaJohn]

And they've already offered spending levels very near to the new and improved (read: more cuts) Ryan plan. Just as long as the GOP drops this ACA bull****.

So they aren't getting the spending they wanted either. And by the way, continued government operation is not an offer either. That's the threat. When a mugger says "Give me your money or I shoot you," it's not a negotiation in which he gets your money and you "get" the "I don't shoot you" part.

What part of unsustainable spending and debt levels don't you understand? Or are you just comfortable with dying before the chickens come home to roost and your children and grandchildren can clean up the mess while they live in servitude to the government?

 

[Kal'Stang]

I've asked this question a lot but can't ever seem to get a straight answer:

In this alleged negotiation over continued funding of our government, what are the Democrats getting in exchange for Republican demands? Yes, Republicans have altered those demands, I know. But what were the Democrats getting in the first place?

What have they offered Republicans?

 

[Slyfox696]

What have they offered Republicans?

Essentially the same bill the House Republicans passed, minus the Obamacare provisions?

 

[Kal'Stang]

Essentially the same bill the House Republicans passed, minus the Obamacare provisions?

Thats not offering anything. That is just accepting what they know needs to be done anyways.

 

[Slyfox696]

Thats not offering anything.

So then what you're saying is the Democrats should have demanded a significant increase in taxes on both capital gains and incomes over $250,000, just so they could now come back and "offer" half of that increase?

That seems petty to me. The fact is Obamacare is the law. It was passed by Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court and affirmed by voters in the presidential election of 2012. For Republicans to claim they are "offering" a delay in this law is petty to me.

That is just accepting what they know needs to be done anyways.

What needs to be done is the Republicans need to get over the fact Obamacare is the law of the land and pass the clean resolution passed by the Senate. Republicans need to accept what they know needs to be done.

 

[Kal'Stang]

So then what you're saying is the Democrats should have demanded a significant increase in taxes on both capital gains and incomes over $250,000, just so they could now come back and "offer" half of that increase?

That seems petty to me.

Why not? Might be petty, but it would at least actually be a return offer instead of just saying "NO!" to any effort.

The fact is Obamacare is the law. It was passed by Congress, signed by the President, upheld by the Supreme Court and affirmed by voters in the presidential election of 2012. For Republicans to claim they are "offering" a delay in this law is petty to me.

1: So? Nothing in any rulebook saying that they can't continue to get rid of it.

2: The 2012 election never focused on Obamacare...if it did then it was rare. The rest of the election was regarding the economy and other things unrelated to Obamacare. From what I saw they completely avoided Obamacare. People voted based on factors other than Obamacare. Every single poll ever put out shows that the majority of Americans want the Mandate taken out...if the election had only focused and had been based entirely on that then Obama would not have been re-elected. So please, don't try and use that excuse. It's nothing but spin.

What needs to be done is the Republicans need to get over the fact Obamacare is the law of the land and pass the clean resolution passed by the Senate. Republicans need to accept what they know needs to be done.

Despite SCOTUS ruling that it was Constitutional the majority of people know that it in fact was NOT Constitutional. Why should the Republicans, who are representing their base back down? Should Democrats back down from gun control because they lost the effort to enact universal background checks? Of course not. We both know that in either situation that is not how our government works...nor should it work like that because the shoe always changes on which foot it is on in the political arena.

 

[Slyfox696]

Why not? Might be petty, but it would at least actually be a return offer instead of just saying "NO!" to any effort.

Because artificially raising your demands, only so you can lower them later to a reasonable level is a waste of time and completely inefficient. It's immature.

1: So? Nothing in any rulebook saying that they can't continue to get rid of it.

It's a waste of time right now and everyone knows it. Their attempt to get rid of it is not only wasting taxpayer time and money, but it's legitimately hurting innocent people who need the government open. Republicans have attempted to repeal Obamcare something like 41 times. It's time to give it up, or at the very least, wait until the situation changes to the point where you may actually be able to change it.

2: The 2012 election never focused on Obamacare

Mitt Romney ran on repealing Obamacare. It was one of the many things he was going to do on Day One.

MITT ROMNEY: On day one of my administration, I'll direct the secretary of Health and Human Services to grant a waiver from Obamacare to all 50 states. And then I'll go about getting it repealed.

Can Mitt Romney Really Repeal Obamacare? : NPR

Mitt Romney ran on repealing Obamacare. Americans showed they either didn't want it repealed.

Despite SCOTUS ruling that it was Constitutional the majority of people know that it in fact was NOT Constitutional.

We have one of the most conservative Supreme Courts in recent history. If even they say it is Constitutional, then it's hard for me to understand how anyone can argue it.

Why should the Republicans, who are representing their base back down?

Because their obstinance will go no where and it's hurting people.

Should Democrats back down from gun control because they lost the effort to enact universal background checks? Of course not.

But they have...and you don't see Democrats demanding Republicans pass gun control or they'll shut down the government or ruin America's credit rating.

It's time for Republicans to put it in their back pocket. They've lost this round. Obamacare is in effect and it's not going to change as long as the Democrats control the Senate and White House. Quit wasting people's time and hurting innocent Americans by making unreasonable demands.

 

[Deuce]

What part of unsustainable spending and debt levels don't you understand? Or are you just comfortable with dying before the chickens come home to roost and your children and grandchildren can clean up the mess while they live in servitude to the government?

Why are you so blatantly changing the subject?

 

[Deuce]

What have they offered Republicans?

In theory, Republicans would be getting some of these demands regarding Obamacare. In exchange for....


...


.... let me know.