What makes US great?

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by God-Is-Holy:
George Bush is a man of God. We're not talking about Islam or Buddhism here.

Bush is the farthest thing from God as you can possibly get. "Man of God..." you are too funny.

 

[robin]

Robin, I want to thank you for not letting me down and keeping this thread grounded in reality. For we cannot look at the good in my nation without looking at the bad as well. They are both sides of the same coin. In order to look at where this country stands, we have to look at everything we've done with clear vision.

You always have my utmost respect. Thank you.

Thanks Billo
All I ask is for people to take a balanced view & consider both sides of the coin. The good & bad aspects of America.
This is something most Americans seem unable to do.
In the case of Russians, people thought they were brainwashed communists due to their censored media & the fact they had no access to the truth.
This is not the case with Americans. They do have access to the truth about their countries misdeeds, ignoring Fox of course, yet they are only interested in having a starry eyed view of their country.
The average ignoramous American such as Skilmatic & Teacher has their head in the sand to the extent they are as ignorant of the truth as the average Russian citizen during the cold war.
I doubt they will even have bothered to even read the speech by Chris White that I posted in #45 here.
Result of this willful jingoism & complacency on the part of the American electorate is their politicians get away with being accessories to murder.
If the US public bothered to take more interest in their goverments activities & have the intelligence to be cynical about the propaganda they are fed, then there are innocent mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons & daughters in Central & S America that would still be alive.
But instead they are victims of CIA backed tyranical regimes.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by robin
Thanks Billo
All I ask is for people to take a balanced view & consider both sides of the coin. The good & bad aspects of America.
This is something most Americans seem unable to do.
In the case of Russians, people thought they were brainwashed communists due to their censored media & the fact they had no access to the truth.
This is not the case with Americans. They do have access to the truth about their countries misdeeds, ignoring Fox of course, yet they are only interested in having a starry eyed view of their country.
The average ignoramous American such as Skilmatic & Teacher has their head in the sand to the extent they are as ignorant of the truth as the average Russian citizen during the cold war.
I doubt they will even have bothered to even read the speech by Chris White that I posted in #45 here.
Result of this willful jingoism & complacency on the part of the American electorate is their politicians get away with being accessories to murder.
If the US public bothered to take more interest in their goverments activities & have the intelligence to be cynical about the propaganda they are fed, then there are innocent mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons & daughters in Central & S America that would still be alive.
But instead they are victims of CIA backed tyranical regimes.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdt...rds_Index.html

This is why that whole "take out Hussein 'cause he was a bad leader" rap is bullshit. First, we new he was a bad leader many years ago, and second, their are many bad leaders we freely support. So that arguement doesn't wash.

Your right on the money here, Robin. Trouble is, people here watch too much f_cking TV. Their [many Americans] views get almost childlike. I stand behind my government whenever they do right. When they do wrong, I address my grievences.

teacher and SKIL have a warm place in my heart, even though we are opposites politically. With teacher, I can't really answer why I feel that way. With SKIL, I just don't know!

 

[SKILMATIC]

I thought you meant a more physical place like the Vatican or possibly one of the levels of Dante's hell or maybe a religious place like Pershing Square in Los Angeles.

Oh ok, well no thats not what i was implying. However, now you know.

 

[God-Is-Holy]

The truth is that when you start to mix politics with fundamentalist religious thought, you are fooling around with a very volatile mixture that tends to blow up in one's face.

I find that this rather occurs when politics and religion are separated.

Bush is the farthest thing from God as you can possibly get. "Man of God..." you are too funny.

Actually, God has directed President Bush at times. Godly leaders are valuable and rare. Why do you theorize that Bush is far away from God?

 

[kal-el]

People are often lazy and don't wish to work, so many turn to crime instead.

IMO violence and crime is always produced by people that are unhappy. At the root of all violence, their is dissatisfied people.

Untrue. Stricter laws in the Old Testament circumvented crime before it began.

What are you impling the OT wasn't barbaric? Wasn't it an eye for an eye time?

Now you're judging his soul. How would you know who's a true Christian or not, if you have not aquainted yourself with the teachings of Christ?

God ordains war to deal with sin.

1 Chronicles 5
22 For many fell slain, because the war was of God. And they settled in their place until the exile.
(NAS95)

Judging his soul? O, you mean judging his genetic code, right? There is no proof for an "immortal" or "ethereal" soul. There is, however, scientific proof that everyone has a unique genetic code. http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/GeneticCode.html

And, how can anyone not judge George Bush? The man's on tv, the papers, internet blogs, and such. I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find a person that dosen't truly judge the leader of this country.:2razz:

You're obviously resistant to the truth of the bible. And you're judgmental as well, which means that you haven't learned the teachings of Christ. You're judging God.

Again, the words of Jesus, which you blatantly disregard, although you accuse others of not being a true Christian:

Matthew 7
1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
(NAS95)

John 8
16 "But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me.
(NAS95)

Yea, yea, so your "suppossed" man in the clouds uttered a few things to an ancient transcriber, who in turn, copied it onto a piece of paper, which in itself was forged and copied millions of times. It dosen't change the fact that your mythological figure is a murderer. He should be liable to prosecution and execution.:lol:

http://godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html

Actually, God has directed President Bush at times. Godly leaders are valuable and rare. Why do you theorize that Bush is far away from God?

You're preaching to the choir here buddy.:lol: I already know Bush is fanatical. One must be to actually think a "mythological" entity is communicating with him, instructing him to start armed conflicts, in the process, killing civilians with reckless abandon. I think Georgie is confusing god, and satan.:lol:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0630-04.htm

 

[God-Is-Holy]

IMO violence and crime is always produced by people that are unhappy. At the root of all violence, their is dissatisfied people.

Perhaps they should occupy themselves with working. Much more constructive. Unhappiness is no excuse for breaking the law.

What are you impling the OT wasn't barbaric?

Where specifically did I imply this?

Wasn't it an eye for an eye time?

Correct. What's your point?

Judging his soul?

Yes.

O, you mean judging his genetic code, right?

No.

There is no proof for an "immortal" or "ethereal" soul.

Your confusing a human soul with a human spirit. The word 'soul' originates from the greek word 'sykekos', from whence we also get our word 'psyche'. Hence the 'soul' is the 'psyche'. Psychologists and psychiatrists deal with psyches (or souls). The psyche (or soul) is very different from the ethereal human spirit.

There is, however, scientific proof that everyone has a unique genetic code. http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/BioInfo/GP/GeneticCode.html

And how is this relevant to our conversation? You're delving off into a tangent.

And, how can anyone not judge George Bush? The man's on tv, the papers, internet blogs, and such. I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find a person that dosen't truly judge the leader of this country.:2razz:

And how does this make him a false Christian as you assert? You're just confirming your judgmental disposition.

Yea, yea, so your "suppossed" man in the clouds uttered a few things to an ancient transcriber,

Which ancient transcriber are you referring to? There are multiple biblical authors.

who in turn, copied it onto a piece of paper, which in itself was forged and copied millions of times.

And your evidence for this?

It dosen't change the fact that your mythological figure is a murderer.

Now you're simply getting judgmental again. Are you against capital punishment too?

He should be liable to prosecution and execution.:lol:

I don't think that it'll happen.

http://godandscience.org/apologetics/notkill.html

Thanks for the links, but I prefer someone who can present their own arguments, and not simply somebody else's.

You're preaching to the choir here buddy.:lol:

You don't strike me as virtuously religious.

I already know Bush is fanatical.

By what standard? By the law? Or by your own?

One must be to actually think a "mythological" entity is communicating with him, instructing him to start armed conflicts, in the process, killing civilians with reckless abandon.

Again, where's your evidence?

I think Georgie is confusing god, and satan.:lol:

Up to this point, you don't seem to have either God or Satan concisely defined. I've merely heard slanted distortions thus far. First you assert that God is a murderer, and then you contrast God against Satan with the idea that God is not a murderer. You're simply vascillating. This is why I don't trust your judgments of Bush's character.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0630-04.htm

Thanks for all of the links, but I prefer to debate with someone who thinks for themself. You're simply being swayed by the wild theories of others. Please present your own arguments, as opposed to someone else's. No need to be the 'link king'.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

We always say were the best country on earth. I was thinking the other day just what makes us a great country. Is it our military strength? Our educational system? Our technology? The character of our citizens? Our Constitution? Our willingness to bear the burden as the worlds policeman in concert with the UN? Our willingness to aid country's that have suffered natural (or man-made) disasters? What do you think makes us a great nation?

Because we will bare any burden, pay any price, and make any sacrifice to pave the path to freedom in the blood of our dead!

Our greatness can not be found in what we have but can only be found in what we have given.

:hm

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Those tax cuts have really worked great, eh?

Yeah, the tax cuts worked wonderfully. I got to keep more of my own money.

It's the spending that's the problem.

The thieves in Washington spend my money on subsidies for multi-billion dollar multi-national agribusinesses, and simultaneously force an artificial basement on the price I pay for food.

How many billions of dollars was all the pork in the latest highway appropriations, including a $232 million bridge to a useless island in Alaska?

The thieves voted without debate a quarter trillion dollars to fix the Katrina damage. As far as I'm concerned, not one dime of my money should have gone there. There's private insurance, there's local and state taxes that can cover known hazards, so why are the people in New York and California being robbed to pay for those people's personal choices?

What else? The so-called "Greatest Generation" is stealing money from their children and grand children. Those entitlements are a huge burden returning nothing whatsoever. Another example of an unwarranted and immoral burden on the producers of society.

What made America great? Independence. Not national independence, though getting rid of that decadent mob in England was an excellent idea. (I'll concede the point that England is the world's oldest democracy when someone posts the election results that put that George character on the pot during our revolution).

What made this country great was the individual expectation of self-reliance and independence of our men and women. FDR"s Raw Deal and the creeping cancer of socialism and the welfare state have steadily eroded this nation's greatness. Which isn't to say it's not the best place on earth, because it is, but we could be better if only we'd throw the parasites overboard.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Yeah, the tax cuts worked wonderfully. I got to keep more of my own money.

It's the spending that's the problem.

The thieves in Washington spend my money on subsidies for multi-billion dollar multi-national agribusinesses, and simultaneously force an artificial basement on the price I pay for food.

How many billions of dollars was all the pork in the latest highway appropriations, including a $232 million bridge to a useless island in Alaska?

The thieves voted without debate a quarter trillion dollars to fix the Katrina damage. As far as I'm concerned, not one dime of my money should have gone there. There's private insurance, there's local and state taxes that can cover known hazards, so why are the people in New York and California being robbed to pay for those people's personal choices?

What else? The so-called "Greatest Generation" is stealing money from their children and grand children. Those entitlements are a huge burden returning nothing whatsoever. Another example of an unwarranted and immoral burden on the producers of society.

What made America great? Independence. Not national independence, though getting rid of that decadent mob in England was an excellent idea. (I'll concede the point that England is the world's oldest democracy when someone posts the election results that put that George character on the pot during our revolution).

What made this country great was the individual expectation of self-reliance and independence of our men and women. FDR"s Raw Deal and the creeping cancer of socialism and the welfare state have steadily eroded this nation's greatness. Which isn't to say it's not the best place on earth, because it is, but we could be better if only we'd throw the parasites overboard.

Buchanan is that you?

I like it throw the imperialist interventionalism overboard that was brought in with Wilson's 14 points, and FDR's new deal.

Great post too bad no one here will get it.

Damn the man save the Republic!

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

If you mean Pat Buchanan he was a fool, too. The scary thing was that he was a better option than the first George Bush. Goes to show how seriously the two-party system has damaged the nation.

No, the people here won't get it. Take the national debt, for instance. Depending on the numbers juggled, it works out to about twenty grand per person. Hardly a bank buster. Then if you think about easy ways to pay it back, you realize that auctioning Camp Pendleton and the Presidio would net about half the debt. Couple that with a restoration of intelligent spending and the problem is solved.

It's not like the Army and Marine Corp HAS to occupy the most expensive real estate in the country, I'm betting that they could acquire lots of really cheap land in Louisiana and Mississippi right about now.

 

[hipsterdufus]

I put the character of our citizens, because our diversity, our country's productive economy and our ideals come from the character of the citizens.

I was going to put the character of our citizens down, then I saw a video of people stampeding each other to get into a Walmart for Christmas specials...

hmm

 

[Binary_Digit]

This might fall under the "system of government", but I voted other. I think the biggest thing that makes us great is our freedom to criticize the government. Being able to criticize, and subsequently improve, our government, propogates all the other things that make us great.

 

[hipsterdufus]

Because we will bare any burden, pay any price, and make any sacrifice to pave the path to freedom in the blood of our dead!

Our greatness can not be found in what we have but can only be found in what we have given.

:hm

Hey! You quoted JFK.

 

[Inuyasha]

One thing that makes the US great is it's isolation from foreign invasion and conflict for 193 years. While the other great nations of the world spent centuries fighting foreign invaders. the US, with the exception of our own Civil War has been free of land conflict for 193 years. this certainly helps more than anything, to establish stability in a nation.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by God-Is-Holy:
Actually, God has directed President Bush at times. Godly leaders are valuable and rare. Why do you theorize that Bush is far away from God?

If he was close to God, he wouldn't be so cavalier about starting wars.

 

[God-Is-Holy]

If he was close to God, he wouldn't be so cavalier about starting wars.

God ordains war.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Does your god ordain torture too?

 

[kal-el]

Perhaps they should occupy themselves with working. Much more constructive. Unhappiness is no excuse for breaking the law.

It is asinine to think that people partake in criminal activity only because they are un-employed. Even if south-central LA had 100% employment rate, criminal activity would still persist. Alot of crimes are motivated by greed. Shoplifters usually only get caught when they become greedy. Did you ever hear of someone partaking in theft just once and get caught? And yet, the majority of shoplifters are employed. Sure, unemployment is a precurser to crime, but it is not the sole reason.

Where specifically did I imply this?

By implying that we adopt the OT laws, in turn you are saying that you wish us to be as caveman-esque as the OT. When I feel the need for mytholgy, I read the OT, sometimes I feel like I'm reading stories from Conan the Barbarian.LOL

Correct. What's your point?

That it was war-filled and barbaric. The ancient "pretend" world was filled with mutual hatred and intense rivalries. There were no boundaries. Land was always up for grabs. Conquer or be conquered seemed to be thr rule of the OT.

Yes.

Soul? Once again, there is no proof of a unique soul given to each and every person. As soon as there's ample proof, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

No.

Dude, how can you continue to disregard what science has actually proven? I think you need to read up on what science actually is, before you spew rabid, asinine claims.:lol: Atoms and molecules result in the said being having certain traits and limbs. ie, be a herbivore or carnivore, have 2 legs, 3 legs, even a wing or two. This genetic phrase in which every living being possess, is called the genetic code in science. It is rather naive to think that everyone has a "unique" and "etherael" soul, escaping from the body after death.

Your confusing a human soul with a human spirit. The word 'soul' originates from the greek word 'sykekos', from whence we also get our word 'psyche'. Hence the 'soul' is the 'psyche'. Psychologists and psychiatrists deal with psyches (or souls). The psyche (or soul) is very different from the ethereal human spirit.

Wrong again.:lol: Soul is synomynous with spirit. And they both mean, in laymen's terms, "breath". What's the difference between a corpse and a living person? In the fairy story of creation, Genesis, "God" had to breath into Adam the "breath of life" in order for him to be a living soul.

And how is this relevant to our conversation? You're delving off into a tangent.

I was simply showing irrefutable proof, that everyone has a unique genetic code. I can't help it your ignorance of science clouds your judgements, and so you turn to "blind faith".

And how does this make him a false Christian as you assert? You're just confirming your judgmental disposition.

Well, am I wrong here, or does Jesus teach to "turn the other cheek"? But no, George Bush wants to punish violence with violence, and obviously Jesus and Gandhi were right. If he would follow Jesus, like he loves to claim, he would love his enemies, and not have started a war that continues to this day with no end in sight. He is no Christian. That story about how a pastor was struck in the face while preaching is a great example of what Christianity should strive to be like. He is indeed following in the footsteps of the Christ turning the other cheek. I applaud him.

Which ancient transcriber are you referring to? There are multiple biblical authors.

Yes, there are. And they are all no-tech, primitive people,are they not? Moses. Am I wrong here, or did he just write in narrative? He is the only one, well according to the bible, who actually took guidance directly from the man himself. David. I think he just wrote Psalms. I'm pretty positive that he just wrote the parts of life which he was processing. Jeremiah. According to your holy book, he was disconcerted because his people continued to sway from god. He knew that this act would lead to their own undoing. I beleive he was a prohphet, and he said everything to convince his people to turn back to god. That's my take on your "mythology". There were many transcribers. In the case of Moses, it was dictation. Each primitve person who wrote it, did so from their own place ion history.

Before Witney's printing press, scribes used their whole lives to copy this mythological book. Translating the Bible from it's opriginal language into another language was a tenous task. It meant that people were making different distinctions about what god was actually stating. I think the OT was originally written in Hebrew. (makes sense since all of its writers were Hebrews) I beleive the NT was written in Greek, hence Alexander the Great conquered the area and made it the official language. Of course there were distortions, word for word translations, made it harder for the reader to comprehend, because some languages use different propositions and words than others. Thought for thought is a bit easier to read, but again it is what the person thinks a phrase means.

Now you're simply getting judgmental again. Are you against capital punishment too?

Of course. Who granted us the power of "playing god?"

I don't think that it'll happen.

Of course it won't, because he dosen't exist. For sure, I can't prove it, but neither can you. We can't prosecute and execute an entity that dosen't really exist, now can we?

Thanks for the links, but I prefer someone who can present their own arguments, and not simply somebody else's.

Thanks. But I wanted to back up my arguments.

You don't strike me as virtuously religious.

That's because I'm not, if you didn't notice.:2razz:

By what standard? By the law? Or by your own?

Well, if you didn't know, fanatical is synomynous with extreme. He waged a war on the economic interests of Americans, place inadequaete regulations to protect the environment, waged a war on jobs, on unemployment programs, the poor, the old, labor unions, and his extreme policies that waged war on civil liberties and constituional principles (patriot act).:lol:

Again, where's your evidence?

Of what exactly? Of him actaully beleiving a "divine" entity is communicating with him:
http://www.patridiots.com/000552.html

Up to this point, you don't seem to have either God or Satan concisely defined. I've merely heard slanted distortions thus far. First you assert that God is a murderer, and then you contrast God against Satan with the idea that God is not a murderer. You're simply vascillating. This is why I don't trust your judgments of Bush's character.

Of course I do, god is an "omnipotent", "mythological" entity, sitting on the clouds, hurling thunderbolts at peeps, and satan is a red-skinned, horney and hooved beast, sitting in a burning abyss, plucking up "sinners" with a pitchfork. I think I have a pretty good idea!

Thanks for all of the links, but I prefer to debate with someone who thinks for themself. You're simply being swayed by the wild theories of others. Please present your own arguments, as opposed to someone else's. No need to be the 'link king'.

Hows about you provide some links to back up your wild assertions? Or, are you a liar?

 

[teacher]

That's simply not biblical.

We need men like George Bush who will take a stand for God.

Someone's got to proclaim the truth.

We got us a live one here.

Is someone gonna do this thing? Or should I? He's new so...

 

[teacher]

I have no doubts or lack of confidence as regards my manhood. Consequently I feel no need to display pictures of guns in my posts. Why do you display pictures of killing machines in your posts M14?
Do you think it gives you some kind of macho image ?

At least he doesn't have some pretty little birdie.

 

[teacher]

Thanks Billo
All I ask is for people to take a balanced view & consider both sides of the coin. The good & bad aspects of America.This is something most Americans seem unable to do.

Why should we bother when we have you?

 

[Inuyasha]

We got us a live one here.

Is someone gonna do this thing? Or should I? He's new so...

Definately a religious spamer. Probably a satanist in diguise or a relative of Iran's new president.

 

[God-Is-Holy]

Does your god ordain torture too?

In what context?

We got us a live one here.

True life is in God.

Is someone gonna do this thing? Or should I? He's new so...

What would you like to do? Give me a hint.

Definately a religious spamer. Probably a satanist in diguise or a relative of Iran's new president.

That's very creative. Did I say something that you didn't like maybe? And you were too afraid to debate it?

 

[kal-el]

True life is in God.

Would you entice us with a link for this wild assertion here, or are you lying?