• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What lessons can Canada teach America about deadly gun violence?

Hafnium1979 said:
Highest gun homicide rate of any developed nation on earth.

I am glad you agree that there is a definite link between our off-the-charts level of gun ownership and the off-the-charts level of gun homicides. Indicates maybe we need to get rid of some guns, eh?
Click to expand...
So are you saying that non gun homicide is somehow better than gun homicide?

You've also ignored the second half of my post #516
 
Last edited:
Rucker61 said:
Our non-firearm homicide rate is 2.5 times that of other developed countries.


What non-firearms do we need to get rid of?
Click to expand...
Who cares about non firearms homicides in the current discussion? Having difficulty following the thread?
 
Hafnium1979 said:
Who cares about non firearms homicides in the current discussion? Having difficulty following the thread?
Click to expand...
Your entire position is that the huge difference in homicide rates is the issue. Pay attention.
 
Hafnium1979 said:
Is that why criminals really like to use guns?



This seems like a really hard concept for you. Let me try to explain it differently so maybe you can find a different way to ignore the point:

Guns are a dangerous piece of equipment that is made specifically to be dangerous. In the hands of good people that's all find and dandy. BUT sometimes those guns get stolen and used by BAD people. Who picks up the cost to society when good peoples' guns get stolen and used for bad things? Why not make the gun owners pay a little to take some responsibility for keeping in our society a large (extremely large) number of dangerous items?



The gun owners on here seem more interested in themselves. The fact that they couldn't care less about guns in our society (because they know they are good people, they just don't know about anyone else) doesn't change the fact that guns are dangerous and the owners (even the GOOD ONES) should pay a little extra to offset the cost of those dangeous things.

Wait, I keep forgetting: you guys can't even CONCEIVE that your guns would ever be stolen or that your love of guns only makes things worse in this nation (you provide a ready consumer base for more and more and more guns...statistically that leads to bad outcomes).

I keep forgetting that statistics don't mean anything to you either.




Facile and hackneyed. But I understand. When you don't save much room in your brain for anything but gun specs it's probably hard to come up with new lines.
Click to expand...
1. Yes.
2. Well. Guns are not designed specifically to be dangerous. They are designed to fire a projectile. How it's used is up to the user.
It makes no sense to " make gun owners pay more" .. anymore than it makes sense to make my elderly patients " pay more" because they have a prescription for norco..of Oxy or other opiod..that may get stolen from their house and result in an overdosed person.
Or making a person who has kitchen knives pay more because they may get stolen and used in a crime.
Or a limitless number of examples.
3. Gun owners realize guns aren't inherently dangerous. They are inanimate and require a person using them incorrectly to be dangerous. And..they know that there are multiple uses like hunting. Target shooting and self protection that benefits society.
4. Hmm. Well I am a gun owner and I understand statistics. Which is why I understand that while gun sales skyrocketed in the 2000's.. crime went down.
The same with firearm accidents.
It's also why I understand that statistics like gun death are invalid measures of safety.
5. Hmm. Your post is understandable. When gun control proponents don't have any cogent response for logic and facts .they resort to personal attacks.
 
Hafnium1979 said:
Guns are a dangerous piece of equipment that is made specifically to be dangerous. In the hands of good people that's all find and dandy. BUT sometimes those guns get stolen and used by BAD people. Who picks up the cost to society when good peoples' guns get stolen and used for bad things? Why not make the gun owners pay a little to take some responsibility for keeping in our society a large (extremely large) number of dangerous items?
Click to expand...
Its the bad people that should pay for it all since they're the ones that steal the guns and use them in crimes.
 
Rucker61 said:
Your entire position is that the huge difference in homicide rates is the issue. Pay attention.
Click to expand...

Are you able to read? I have ALWAYS and CONSISTENTLY stated "gun homicide rate". Please do pay attention. And if you can't pay attention don't assume others are similarly hampered.
 
jaeger19 said:
2. Well. Guns are not designed specifically to be dangerous.
Click to expand...

That's the most absurd thing I've read in a while. I think I see the problem in our conversation. You don't seem to be familiar with the concept of a "gun".


 
Rucker61 said:
Rights aren't dependent upon statistics.
Click to expand...

Rights aren't dependent on ANYTHING but people generally agreeing to grant them.

Enough statistics pile up and people might generally agree to withhold a right.
 
bluesmoke said:
The fact is, the US has the most liberal gun laws of the developed nations and has the worst gun violence. That's not coincidence. The way you focus on criminal gun violence is by focusing on guns. You can't separate the two. Pretending the problem is not guns is fantasy.
Click to expand...

Nope. Blaming it specifically on guns would be stupid at an insane level. Canada does not have the revolving door criminal justice system we have in the US. Nor do they have quite the problem with gang violence that we have here. The vast majority of gun deaths in the US are inner city gang violence. Chicago is a very good example. Without the gang violence, the US would have one of the lowest rates per capita of gun deaths. Blaming inanimate objects for gun violence is just silly, I have owned guns for most of my adult life and have never shot anyone.
 
Hafnium1979 said:
That's the most absurd thing I've read in a while. I think I see the problem in our conversation. You don't seem to be familiar with the concept of a "gun".
Click to expand...
And I see that you are just about emotion and not facts.
It's why logical people can not have rational conversations with a lot of you gun control advocates
You have a paranoia about firearms.

.
 
Hafnium1979 said:
Are you able to read? I have ALWAYS and CONSISTENTLY stated "gun homicide rate". Please do pay attention. And if you can't pay attention don't assume others are similarly hampered.
Click to expand...
Gun homicide rate is an invalid statistic concerning safety
As the poster is pointing out to you.
 
jaeger19 said:
And I see that you are just about emotion and not facts.
Click to expand...

LOL. C'mon. A gun is created specifically as you said to fire a projectile. To what end? OBVIOUSLY to kill or maim something (even hunting!) or to blast something out of the sky (target shooting). Essentially there is NOTHING about a gun's raison d'etre that is not predicated on it being "dangerous".

Honestly you CANNOT think otherwise can you? Seriously? Do you even KNOW what a gun is?

jaeger19 said:
It's why logical people can not have rational conversations with a lot of you gun control advocates
Click to expand...

If you don't understand what a gun is then it isn't ME who has the problem in the conversation

jaeger19 said:
You have a paranoia about firearms.
Click to expand...

And you clearly don't even appreciate what a gun is. Which makes you a SERIOUS danger.

If you don't treat a gun as inherently dangerous YOU ARE A DANGER. That's basic gun safety. EVERYTHING about gun handling is aimed at the inherent danger of the gun.

Wow. Seriously? You don't get that? I mean...wow.

jaeger19 said:
.
Click to expand...
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
Canada does not have the revolving door criminal justice system we have in the US.
Click to expand...

Ummm, you may not be familiar with the USA but we have the highest incarceration rate of any "free" country on earth. I'm not sure how much MORE we could incarcerate people but I'm guessing that if we did we would cease to be a country and become a prison colony.


DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
Nor do they have quite the problem with gang violence that we have here. The vast majority of gun deaths in the US are inner city gang violence. Chicago is a very good example.
Click to expand...

Unless you are from downstate Illinois you don't get to hate on Chicago as much as you gun enthusiasts seem to do. Seems that Chicago is the bete noire of the gun enthusiasts.

DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
Without the gang violence, the US would have one of the lowest rates per capita of gun deaths.
Click to expand...

Gang violence with a gun is facilitated by having guns available. Since many of these gangs don't actually buy their guns at WalMart they STEAL them it seems that one of the problems might be that there are way too many guns available for the stealing.

Hmmmmm. I wonder if GOOD PEOPLE ever have their weapons stashes stolen?


DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
I have owned guns for most of my adult life and have never shot anyone.
Click to expand...

Good for you!
 
Hafnium1979 said:
Ummm, you may not be familiar with the USA but we have the highest incarceration rate of any "free" country on earth. I'm not sure how much MORE we could incarcerate people but I'm guessing that if we did we would cease to be a country and become a prison colony.




Unless you are from downstate Illinois you don't get to hate on Chicago as much as you gun enthusiasts seem to do. Seems that Chicago is the bete noire of the gun enthusiasts.



Gang violence with a gun is facilitated by having guns available. Since many of these gangs don't actually buy their guns at WalMart they STEAL them it seems that one of the problems might be that there are way too many guns available for the stealing.

Hmmmmm. I wonder if GOOD PEOPLE ever have their weapons stashes stolen?




Good for you!
Click to expand...

Which part of "The US has a revolving door criminal justice system and rampant gang related crime in the inner cities." do you not understand?
 
Hafnium1979 said:
Rights aren't dependent on ANYTHING but people generally agreeing to grant them.

Enough statistics pile up and people might generally agree to withhold a right.
Click to expand...
That's going to take 38 states to do so. Our homicide rate is about half of what it was in the early 90s, and no one said they were going to take rights away then.
 
Rucker61 said:
That's going to take 38 states to do so. Our homicide rate is about half of what it was in the early 90s, and no one said they were going to take rights away then.
Click to expand...

I love how anti-strategic you guys are. When the time comes you will be completely unprepared. Good luck with that!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom