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What is your plan for dealing with 800,000 children each year if you ban abortion?

beefheart

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If abortion was banned, penalties were heavy and intensive policing was used to track down providers and women so that very few abortions happened there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year.

What kind of legislation would Congressman and women have to enact in order to deal with 700,000 unwanted children every year that need medical services, child care, education, financial support of 75%, police, jails, counseling, job support, welfare?

Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
The right doesn't give a damn about them after they are born.
 

weaver2

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Depending on what information you accept, from your own post, at a minimum, 65% of those who have abortions are paid for by tax payers. Project Veritas caught Planned Parenthood years ago in a sting. Heritage.org says that abortions make up 95% of PP resolution services. If that is true, their name should be changed to Panned Abortions. I have a niece who is a druggie and has had SIX abortions. On three occasions now, she has had to have the baby because she was too far along. One of those, my daughter adopted and the baby and my daughter had to endure the withdrawal procedure. The first baby turns out to be half Asian and is the love of my daughters life. The other two, my daughter wanted but couldn't afford.

That is off topic and only for illustration that society has lost its moral compass and I think the reason for the current rioting. Having an abortion at someone else's expense teaches society that OUR lives are far more important than someone else's and is in keeping with the new idea of entitlement. Now, blacks are entitled to what white people have even if they haven't paid a price. White's are entitled to free lunches and college even if they haven't paid a price. We are teaching that there should be NO consequences to our actions and in-actions and that we can dead others do what we want to because we do not want to have any pain or fear. There are no hundreds of millions of abortions each year in this world. I find that disgusting. It says OUR lives are the only thing that matters and leads to people insisting that their children and grand children should have to pay for societal shutdown and possible depression because they are afraid of getting sick, even though the FACTS say that someone under 45 has an infinitesimal chance of dying.

Abortion on demand has led us to the rioting in 2020. A world of entitlement and selfishness beyond all reason. Recently they arrested white rich kids...twentysomethings who were rioting, not protesting. They had no life because they were given everything by their rich parents. They have it in the heads, like OAC, that everyone SHOULD be rich and their should be no price to pay.
I'm truly sorry about your niece and her life. It's tragic.

Could you give me a source or link for your statement "65% of those who have abortions are paid for by tax payers." I read the Heritage report on PP written by a representative from the Heritage Foundation's DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society. It seems to be making the case that PP is somehow doing nothing but tax paid for abortions and profiting hugely from them. When they say, "Heritage.org says that abortions make up 95% of PP resolution services". It doesn't mean abortions make up 95% of all PP cases It means that when a woman has decided she needs an abortion in 95% of these cases PP does an abortion for her. PP screens abortion patients and they will not do an abortion if a woman seem hesitant, uncertain, or looks like she may be being pressured.

The anti-abortion movement's constant prying, spying and sting operations against PP has made it a scrupulously legal and ethical organization. James O'Keefe's sting operations have all been discredited.

It seems to me there are enough ethical issues surrounding abortion that we could safely exclude concerns about entitlements, consequences, Blacks and Whites, and just stick with abortion facts and statistics.
 

weaver2

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Wrong question and from the conservative position also irrelevant. Pro-life is really just pro-birth. Full stop.
Conservatives do not care what happens to unwanted children that are born, at that point it becomes an argument about the "responsibility" of others for having that unwanted child to then deal with that. When challenged on that position the response is a series of 'should have' arguments that are monumentally useless.
We know, not suspect but know, that education and access to birth control is the answer. But conservatives do not like that either so we end up at this abortion debate totally ignoring that even pie in the sky miracle occurs and all abortions are outlawed... we know they will still happen, and probably to horrible consequences.Not that conservatives give a shit about that either.
The thing is that if you shut off abortion and suddenly have 600,000 to 700,000 additional unwanted children every year to deal with it is a massive social and political problem. These children need services and personnel for birthing, hospital space, postnatal care, well baby clinics, the women are out of the work force for about a month, those 600,000 babies will need child care, education for 12 years at least, social services perhaps for 18 years, they will need jobs, medical services, they may need foster care, they will have to have Social Security, Medicare, trash collection, potable water, police protection, libraries, broadband.

It is a massive increase in population every year and it is no longer simply a case of individual responsibility. Almost all medical, educational, social service facilities and organizations will be overwhelmed.

There needs to be a plan in place before abortion is outlawed.
 

Lursa

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Why couldn't we just do what we do during an abortion? We can carve them up into pieces and sell the parts or we could severe their spinal cords, suck out their brain and toss them into medical waste.
Is that truly your belief of how abortions are performed? If so, you are exceedingly uninformed.

97.5% of all abortions take place early, and consist of painlessly flushing a raspberry-sized unborn or smaller from the womb.

The rest, done later, are those that are medically necessary and IF the unborn has progressed to a size dangerous to the woman, it may be dismembered, in order to reduce internal damage and pain for the woman. By law, a lethal injection is required and the unborn is already dead and so of course, feels nothing.

Would you prefer to punish a woman with added pain and internal damage just because you are offended by the procedure? Keep in mind that a later abortion is one where a woman/couple WANTED a baby and are now likely devastated by the loss due to medical issues (mother or unborn).

As long as a mother and her doctor agree this would make the most sense. Who are we to question a decision a mother makes?
Agreed.
 

GummyVitamins

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Oh hi, weren't you the person who brought up random unrelated bill of rights amendments to justify the RvW decision and when I disagreed with them you asked why I was talking about them? That was fun. Are we going to have more fun?
Is that truly your belief of how abortions are performed? If so, you are exceedingly uninformed.
Depending on the term, yes.

97.5% of all abortions take place early, and consist of painlessly flushing a raspberry-sized unborn or smaller from the womb.
~10% of abortions take place after the first trimester. "Early" is purely subjective here.

The rest, done later, are those that are medically necessary and IF the unborn has progressed to a size dangerous to the woman, it may be dismembered, in order to reduce internal damage and pain for the woman. By law, a lethal injection is required and the unborn is already dead and so of course, feels nothing.
Surveys show that abortions done later are not likely to be medically necessary. Just like early abortions, they are mostly elective.

Would you prefer to punish a woman with added pain and internal damage just because you are offended by the procedure? Keep in mind that a later abortion is one where a woman/couple WANTED a baby and are now likely devastated by the loss due to medical issues (mother or unborn).
I'm pro-choice. Just pointing out facts. Most people would agree that elective abortion after a certain developmental stage is barbaric and immoral. It's that line that is different for most people. Only the most radical support abortion until birth.
 

Highlanders

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I agree with you that seems to be their plan, but when the reality of 800,000 extra children every year (8,000,000 in ten years) shows up in the real world needing services, programs, education, medical attention, housing someone is going to have to come up with a plan to deal with these needs. The reality that a 20% increase in births every year is so enormous it will not simply be absorbed into the general population doesn't seem to have sunk in to the conservative mind, yet.
Yes I quite believe you pair believe that when you suck your first breath, your on you're own..... the rest of humanity, we believe in things you seem of missing in your upbringing. Love, family, honesty integrity, truth honour...... material things, are secondary. Shiny ........ me...... myself...... selfishness.... greed......I'm right cause I'm a woman....and there's no one else to be considered...seems to be your philosophy.
 

weaver2

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~10% of abortions take place after the first trimester. "Early" is purely subjective here.Surveys show that abortions done later are not likely to be medically necessary. Just like early abortions, they are mostly elective.
Ifyou have a link for that, I'd be interested in seeing it.Thanks
 

weaver2

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How do you actually know this? Did you just make it up?
There are about 800,000 abortions every year. If the SC overturns Roe abortions women will no longer have a right to make a decision about her pregnancy. Many states have laws ready to put in place when that happens but it will take some time to get up and running. Meantime presumably no abortions get done in any state. Some women would get illegal abortions so I made a guess of between 600,000 and 700,000 babies would get born. And until the illegal abortion business gets started most women will obey what laws are on the books and not get abortions.

Nobody has ever asked about the plans for what happens when the SC overturns Roe. Remember Roe didn't make abortion legal. There were already states where it was legal. What Roe says is that women have a right to make a personal decision about her private life. Overturning that decision then says a woman does not have a right to make personal decisions and all abortion and other personal decisions stop.
 

Tlrmln

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There are about 800,000 abortions every year... Some women would get illegal abortions so I made a guess of between 600,000 and 700,000 babies would get born....
Many people would likely be a lot more careful about getting pregnant.
 

GummyVitamins

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Ifyou have a link for that, I'd be interested in seeing it.Thanks

91.5% up to 13 weeks. 1st trimester ends at 12 weeks. Hence the rough symbol.

Some developmental facts. The heart begins to beat at 6 weeks. At 12 weeks the fetus has its eyes, nose, mouth, all its fingers/toes, etc.
 

Fishking

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If abortion was banned, penalties were heavy and intensive policing was used to track down providers and women so that very few abortions happened there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year.

What kind of legislation would Congressman and women have to enact in order to deal with 700,000 unwanted children every year that need medical services, child care, education, financial support of 75%, police, jails, counseling, job support, welfare?

Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
The same way the millions that aren't killed are "dealt" with. People raise their damn kids.
 

Casper

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If abortion was banned, penalties were heavy and intensive policing was used to track down providers and women so that very few abortions happened there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year.

What kind of legislation would Congressman and women have to enact in order to deal with 700,000 unwanted children every year that need medical services, child care, education, financial support of 75%, police, jails, counseling, job support, welfare?

Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
I say work camps along with military training so they are ready to serve the Nation that loves them..................
 

Paradoxical

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The same way the millions that aren't killed are "dealt" with. People raise their damn kids.
This never occurs to a far left wing liberal.......Having to pack your kids a lunch? 'PSHAW!!I need my beauty sleep and how can I afford a new cellphone if I have to buy food for my kid? Are you joking me? That is the gubmnets job. Speaking of jobs. I'm hoping for that bank VP job i applied for but I think they are prejiced cause I din't git my GED."
 

Paradoxical

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I say work camps along with military training so they are ready to serve the Nation that loves them..................
I say cross your legs or zip up your pants depemding on which sex you identify as.
 

weaver2

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91.5% up to 13 weeks. 1st trimester ends at 12 weeks. Hence the rough symbol.
Some developmental facts. The heart begins to beat at 6 weeks. At 12 weeks the fetus has its eyes, nose, mouth, all its fingers/toes, etc.
The CDC article you mention doesn't say anything about abortions being medically unnecessary, elective abortions after the 13th week. Do you have a link for that?

The heart doesn't start beating at 6 weeks. There isn't a heart. There is only a double tube of mesenteric tissue that after folding and septation will later become the heart. The "beat" is the beginning of the electrical impulses from the sinus node that will initiate each heart beat when there is actually a heart. This beat cannot be heard with a stethoscope placed on the mothers belly. Only through sophisticated ultra sound can it be "heard". The heart is actually not fully developed until after birth when the foramen ovale closes and blood flows through all 4 chambers. https://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php/Cardiovascular_System_-_Heart_Development

And yes, at 12 weeks the fetus has most of the characteristics of a human and it is destined to develop into a human. It is 2 inches long and weighs 1/2 ounce. Internally it also still has aspects of a developing amphibian. The point is that we are anthropomorphizing the embryo and fetus at these early stages in order to pass laws denying women the right to make a very personal decision about her private life and the private life of her family. This kind of intrusion into people's private lives is currently not tolerated by anti-abortion advocates. If one were to pass laws telling them when and how many children to have, how to educate their children, where to go to church, what literature to read there would be massive outrage. Yet these same people feel quite comfortable in denying women the right to decide whether or not to give birth.
 

Dayton3

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If abortion was banned, penalties were heavy and intensive policing was used to track down providers and women so that very few abortions happened there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year.

What kind of legislation would Congressman and women have to enact in order to deal with 700,000 unwanted children every year that need medical services, child care, education, financial support of 75%, police, jails, counseling, job support, welfare?

Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
What makes you think there would be 700,000 unwanted children born each year? Do you have any actual evidence of this?

Thought not. After all, before Roe v. Wade there were not hundreds of thousands of extra babies being born each year. I can look up a link if you choose not to believe me
 

Lursa

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Oh hi, weren't you the person who brought up random unrelated bill of rights amendments to justify the RvW decision and when I disagreed with them you asked why I was talking about them? That was fun. Are we going to have more fun?
It was completely relevant as you kept bleating that you didnt know where abortion was mentioned in the Const...and I just showed why it didnt need to be.

Depending on the term, yes.
Good, acceptance is the first step.

~10% of abortions take place after the first trimester. "Early" is purely subjective here.
How so? The medical field categorizes a pregnancy by trimester. If you choose to put your personal emotional preferences on the timeframe, that's your prerogative. But the development of the unborn is pretty well categorized within those trimesters. As is the proper abortion procedure.


Surveys show that abortions done later are not likely to be medically necessary. Just like early abortions, they are mostly elective.
How much later? Please be specific? You are the one not accepting 'timeframe.'


I'm pro-choice. Just pointing out facts. Most people would agree that elective abortion after a certain developmental stage is barbaric and immoral. It's that line that is different for most people. Only the most radical support abortion until birth.
Well cool beans. You are all worked up over stuff that never happens. Such drama! (well, I guess it could be anything for you, since you seem to have your own ideas about trimesters being 'subjective.')

Elective abortions of healthy viable (do you need the definition?) fetuses do not take place. If you disagree, please provide the data. And no Dr is compelled to perform them.

No woman has an abortion right at birth...that's ludicrous drama queen garbage. Why would women abort any healthy late term fetuses when the procedure is then more painful, more dangerous, and they could instead put it up for adoption for a cool $20,000?

Are you a fan of useless, feel-good legislation? I'm not. I dont believe in creating laws for things that never occur.

I mean, would you support a law that forbids riding unicorns when unicorns dont even exist? (Psssssstt: they really dont!)
 

OceanBlues1

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We know, not suspect but know, that education and access to birth control is the answer. But conservatives do not like that either so we end up at this abortion debate totally ignoring that even pie in the sky miracle occurs and all abortions are outlawed... we know they will still happen, and probably to horrible consequences. Not that conservatives give a shit about that either.
Exactly. I think conservatives are still stuck in the centuries-old mindset that it's "bad" for teens to have "too much education" about how to prevent unwanted pregnancy by use of contraception and that only abstinence should be their way to avoid pregnancy.
 

weaver2

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What makes you think there would be 700,000 unwanted children born each year? Do you have any actual evidence of this? Thought not. After all, before Roe v. Wade there were not hundreds of thousands of extra babies being born each year. I can look up a link if you choose not to believe me
Since we are talking about an event that has not happened it is a bit difficult to come up with evidence that it is true. I said it was speculation on my part. However, since 75% of the women that get abortions are living at or below the poverty line is seems reasonable to expect that if you deny poor women abortions for unwanted children there will be a huge and sudden increase in unwanted children, struggling families and desperate mothers that need care and services since these women cannot travel to a state or country that permits abortion or have a private physician that will do an abortion and report it as a legal D&C.

It seems reasonable that there should be some sort of plan to deal with a sudden, dramatic increase in poor children.
 

Dayton3

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Since we are talking about an event that has not happened it is a bit difficult to come up with evidence that it is true. I said it was speculation on my part. However, since 75% of the women that get abortions are living at or below the poverty line is seems reasonable to expect that if you deny poor women abortions for unwanted children there will be a huge and sudden increase in unwanted children, struggling families and desperate mothers that need care and services since these women cannot travel to a state or country that permits abortion or have a private physician that will do an abortion and report it as a legal D&C.

It seems reasonable that there should be some sort of plan to deal with a sudden, dramatic increase in poor children.
For starters when researching the stats related to your post I came across several references to the rate of adoptions before and after Roe v. Wade. IIRC, The Guttmacher Institute (often used as a source by pro choice people) noted that the rate of adoptions and raw number of adoptions dropped significantly after Roe v. Wade was decided.

Logically then if Roe v. Wade was overturned and abortions become largely unavailable for roughly half of American women, the number of unwanted babies adopted would rise significantly. Don't know if it would compensate entirely for the likely increase in the number of babies but it is worth taking into consideration.
 

Felis Leo

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If abortion was banned, penalties were heavy and intensive policing was used to track down providers and women so that very few abortions happened there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year.

What kind of legislation would Congressman and women have to enact in order to deal with 700,000 unwanted children every year that need medical services, child care, education, financial support of 75%, police, jails, counseling, job support, welfare?

Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
Well, Weaver, I would vote to raise taxes at the local and state levels and encourage my Congressional representative to vote to raise taxes at the Federal level in order to better care for them, especially through foster care and adoption assistance programs.

And now that I have answered your question, would you please tell me: What should we do about the unwanted children we have right now?
 

weaver2

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Well, Weaver, I would vote to raise taxes at the local and state levels and encourage my Congressional representative to vote to raise taxes at the Federal level in order to better care for them, especially through foster care and adoption assistance programs.
And now that I have answered your question, would you please tell me: What should we do about the unwanted children we have right now?
Thanks for an intelligent answer. And I'm not sure what we should do about the unwanted children that are in foster care right now. The system is underfunded and over used. There are great foster parents but there is also a preponderance of homes that are totally unsuitable and only in it for the money. This is why before we ban abortion and push additional thousands into the system there ought to be a plan. Yours is as good as I've seen so far.
 
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