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What is your plan for dealing with 800,000 children each year if you ban abortion?

smallvoice said:
It has, but your "solution" of "just kill them all" is unacceptable. Why don't you folks come up with a solution that stops it before it gets to that point?
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There is a plan. Conservatives don't like it. Won't use it. Pass laws against it. They are dedicated to one action only; overturning Roe and banning abortion even though they know it will simply drive abortion underground where anyone with a set of tools and a rented room and a can of white paint, can set up an abortion clinic and start work. There will actually be more abortion providers if made illegal than there are now. So what is the objective if there will be the same number of abortions? Think about it. ................... what is the one thing conservative law makers can't do if abortion is legal? You'll get it eventually.
 
So you don't have a solution (other than kill them all). Why didn't you just say so?
 
smallvoice said:
So you don't have a solution (other than kill them all). Why didn't you just say so?
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??? Kill them all? Good lord, such drama! Another one posting based on feelings and not fact.

The abortion rate goes down every year and by far, most women choose (that's the integral word here) to have their babies.

Do you 'feel better' now? Knowing that women choose according to their needs...and that solution is working?
 
Lursa said:
??? Kill them all? Good lord, such drama! Another one posting based on feelings and not fact. The abortion rate goes down every year and by far, most women choose (that's the integral word here) to have their babies. Do you 'feel better' now? Knowing that women choose according to their needs...and that solution is working?
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Amazingly "kill them all" is the only alternative plan I've see any anti-abortion person post on this thread. It's interesting that a group adamantly opposed to abortion doesn't have any plan, none, 0, zip for dealing with the sudden increase of unwanted children.

If these people were really concerned about babies they would have a plan for thousands of unwanted babies. That they have nothing tells you that the issue isn't really about saving babies.
 
weaver2 said:
If abortion was banned, penalties were heavy and intensive policing was used to track down providers and women so that very few abortions happened there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year.

What kind of legislation would Congressman and women have to enact in order to deal with 700,000 unwanted children every year that need medical services, child care, education, financial support of 75%, police, jails, counseling, job support, welfare?

Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
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This is a very good OP and gives one pause for thought. For those who don't know, I once was a firm believer, was an altar boy ad basically raised by nuns. I have been a staunch non believer for decades and am against abortion for a different reason, which is that ever since unfettered abortions have been allowed, societal morals have taken a steep nose dive resulting in younger people being bereft of morals, which has led to purposeless lives driven only by what society ca do for them, instead of the other way around. As religion has waned, so have morals and I don't have a ready answer for how society without religion can get them back. It used to be that getting pregnant came with consequences and the males and female would be responsible and raise that child as a penance or sentence, if you will, to show them and others that sex leads to pregnancy and there are consequences to having unprotected sex. All that is out the window because today's society expects no consequences and they want a free abortion and if they have the kid, they want welfare and free lunches.

My solution is one that society today (unfortunately) wouldn't tolerate and would require that the female identify the male and that he be made to pay child support until the child is 18 OR that the female pay for the abortion out of her own pocket. Additionally, if that same female gets pregnant again she will have to have her tubes tied at the expense of her and her impregnator.
 
Paradoxical said:
This is a very good OP and gives one pause for thought. For those who don't know, I once was a firm believer, was an altar boy ad basically raised by nuns. I have been a staunch non believer for decades and am against abortion for a different reason, which is that ever since unfettered abortions have been allowed, societal morals have taken a steep nose dive resulting in younger people being bereft of morals, which has led to purposeless lives driven only by what society ca do for them, instead of the other way around. As religion has waned, so have morals and I don't have a ready answer for how society without religion can get them back. It used to be that getting pregnant came with consequences and the males and female would be responsible and raise that child as a penance or sentence, if you will, to show them and others that sex leads to pregnancy and there are consequences to having unprotected sex. All that is out the window because today's society expects no consequences and they want a free abortion and if they have the kid, they want welfare and free lunches.

My solution is one that society today (unfortunately) wouldn't tolerate and would require that the female identify the male and that he be made to pay child support until the child is 18 OR that the female pay for the abortion out of her own pocket. Additionally, if that same female gets pregnant again she will have to have her tubes tied at the expense of her and her impregnator.
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Thanks for taking the topic seriously and congratulations on being the only anti-abortion advocate to have actually addressed the situation. Many of your concerns about society's morals and the direction we are headed are shared by pro-choice advocates. In the interest of keeping the facts of the discussion accurate here are two factoids: Roe v Wade didn't start the sexual revolution or empty out the churches. The sexual revolution, symbolized by Woodstock in 1969 had already been in full swing before Roe was decided in 1973. The falling away of church attendance had began before that. It's unclear how or why main-line religion began to lose relevance and evengelicisim began to take over but it did, sometime in the 1950s. Are they connected is a good question. It is quite possible that society needs the community adhesiveness offered by formal religion or some other organization.

The other factoid that can derail a discussion with unless quarreling is the belief that abortions are being paid for by the government. They aren't. Medicaid will cover the cost of abortion for a woman living below the poverty line if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest (less than 1% of all abortions) or if there is risk of death(less than 3% of all abortions). Any aid given to help women pay for abortions is from privately funded organizations whose sole purpose is setting up financial help for working poor women.
 
weaver2 said:
Thanks for taking the topic seriously and congratulations on being the only anti-abortion advocate to have actually addressed the situation. Many of your concerns about society's morals and the direction we are headed are shared by pro-choice advocates. In the interest of keeping the facts of the discussion accurate here are two factoids: Roe v Wade didn't start the sexual revolution or empty out the churches. The sexual revolution, symbolized by Woodstock in 1969 had already been in full swing before Roe was decided in 1973. The falling away of church attendance had began before that. It's unclear how or why main-line religion began to lose relevance and evengelicisim began to take over but it did, sometime in the 1950s. Are they connected is a good question. It is quite possible that society needs the community adhesiveness offered by formal religion or some other organization.

The other factoid that can derail a discussion with unless quarreling is the belief that abortions are being paid for by the government. They aren't. Medicaid will cover the cost of abortion for a woman living below the poverty line if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest (less than 1% of all abortions) or if there is risk of death(less than 3% of all abortions). Any aid given to help women pay for abortions is from privately funded organizations whose sole purpose is setting up financial help for working poor women.
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Before I respond, do you have a link that would tend to show that women who are not raped and below the poverty line who have an abortion are NOT paid for by the taxpayers? Is Planned Parenthood (which rally should be called Planned Abortions) funded in any manner by tax dollars?
 
weaver2 said:
Amazingly "kill them all" is the only alternative plan I've see any anti-abortion person post on this thread. It's interesting that a group adamantly opposed to abortion doesn't have any plan, none, 0, zip for dealing with the sudden increase of unwanted children.

If these people were really concerned about babies they would have a plan for thousands of unwanted babies. That they have nothing tells you that the issue isn't really about saving babies.
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Amazingly, it is that solution that pro-abortion types offer as their answer. It’s NOT the anti-abortion position. You should read what I said, not what you want.


That still, small voice that says: He’s right!
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Why couldn't we just do what we do during an abortion? We can carve them up into pieces and sell the parts or we could severe their spinal cords, suck out their brain and toss them into medical waste.

As long as a mother and her doctor agree this would make the most sense. Who are we to question a decision a mother makes?
 
GummyVitamins said:
Why couldn't we just do what we do during an abortion? We can carve them up into pieces and sell the parts or we could severe their spinal cords, suck out their brain and toss them into medical waste.

As long as a mother and her doctor agree this would make the most sense. Who are we to question a decision a mother makes?
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That sounds fun!
 
GummyVitamins said:
Agreed. It's so great that government should pay for it. Poor people should also be able to easily utilize their right to chop their offspring up into pieces. There should be no financial burden.
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Absolutely. I have long supported federal.payment of abortion
 
I have a different perspective.

I think if R V W were overturned (which does not ban abortion btw), access to medical abortion will increase drastically.
Even if illegal, there will be strong underground pathway for these medications. How well has the war on drugs gone? I have no doubt that alternative methods for abortion will surface as well. And since they will be pushed "underground" the pressure to decide early will be immense. It is likely that since a woman will be pressured to decide even earlier, she may decide to abort...even though if she took more time....she might have decided she could remain pregnant.

Many pro-lifers have this narrative that a woman who aborts does so for convenience. Yes, it is "inconvenient" to be pregnant when you barely can afford to support yourself on a good month, let alone trying to support yourself when you end up taking time off due to pregnancy related appointments or maladies.....or your bosses choose other people for shifts as your body size slows you down or you become less dependable. And this is before it is even considered that the woman likely has crappy access to health care. You may be given emergency medicaid for pregnancy.....they will send you to the nearest county clinic that can accept you. A clinic that is understaffed and overburdened.
 
weaver2 said:
Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you propose dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children?
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Good question. My guess; anti-abortion conservatives, politicians included, have NO plan whatsoever for dealing with the many problems that legally banning abortion would create. They probably have LOTS of plans for punishment for either women who have abortions, doctors who perform abortions, or more likely, both. They're big on punishment, but that's all.
 
Rexedgar said:
Pro-lifers are only pro-life for those that have yet to draw breath, once you suck that first lung-full, you are on your own.......
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Exactly. Anti-abortion politicians make their true feelings very clear when they continually vote against programs that give aid to low-income and poor families.
 
Paradoxical said:
Before I respond, do you have a link that would tend to show that women who are not raped and below the poverty line who have an abortion are NOT paid for by the taxpayers? Is Planned Parenthood (which rally should be called Planned Abortions) funded in any manner by tax dollars?
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www.guttmacher.org

State Funding of Abortion Under Medicaid

www.guttmacher.org www.guttmacher.org
This is just one source on government funding. Others can be found by typing in "Government funding for abortions". A few states fund all abortions for poor and working poor women. State not federal dollars are used. Most states follow the federal guidelines and fund abortions through Medicaid only for rape, incest, or risk of death.

I'm really discouraged to see you call PP, Planned Abortions. Hopefully you do know that most PP clinics do not offer abortion services. They deal with women's other reproductive needs and issues, like contraception, STD education and counseling. About 35% of the PP income comes as payment for Medicaid services to poor women for non-abortion services. About 20% comes for services funded by state governments. Another 35% comes from private donations. About 3% comes from private payments for abortions and 7% comes from Other.

The question of how women not covered by Medicaid by not able to afford the cost of abortion $300 to $400 for 1st trimester abortion, often comes up. These women are usually connected with private organizations set up strictly to help with abortion funding. Every state has at least one of these private charitable organizations to which concerned women contribute. They are not a well publicized resource, however, women who know the need donate serious money.
I hope this helps.
 
smallvoice said:
Amazingly, it is that solution that pro-abortion types offer as their answer. It’s NOT the anti-abortion position. You should read what I said, not what you want.
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It was meant to be sarcastic. I know that is not the anti-abortion position.
 
weaver2 said:
... there would be about 700.000 additional children born every year....
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How do you actually know this? Did you just make it up?
 
weaver2 said:
www.guttmacher.org

State Funding of Abortion Under Medicaid

www.guttmacher.org www.guttmacher.org
This is just one source on government funding. Others can be found by typing in "Government funding for abortions". A few states fund all abortions for poor and working poor women. State not federal dollars are used. Most states follow the federal guidelines and fund abortions through Medicaid only for rape, incest, or risk of death.

I'm really discouraged to see you call PP, Planned Abortions. Hopefully you do know that most PP clinics do not offer abortion services. They deal with women's other reproductive needs and issues, like contraception, STD education and counseling. About 35% of the PP income comes as payment for Medicaid services to poor women for non-abortion services. About 20% comes for services funded by state governments. Another 35% comes from private donations. About 3% comes from private payments for abortions and 7% comes from Other.

The question of how women not covered by Medicaid by not able to afford the cost of abortion $300 to $400 for 1st trimester abortion, often comes up. These women are usually connected with private organizations set up strictly to help with abortion funding. Every state has at least one of these private charitable organizations to which concerned women contribute. They are not a well publicized resource, however, women who know the need donate serious money.
I hope this helps.
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Depending on what information you accept, from your own post, at a minimum, 65% of those who have abortions are paid for by tax payers. Project Veritas caught Planned Parenthood years ago in a sting. Heritage.org says that abortions make up 95% of PP resolution services. If that is true, their name should be changed to Panned Abortions. I have a niece who is a druggie and has had SIX abortions. On three occasions now, she has had to have the baby because she was too far along. One of those, my daughter adopted and the baby and my daughter had to endure the withdrawal procedure. The first baby turns out to be half Asian and is the love of my daughters life. The other two, my daughter wanted but couldn't afford.

That is off topic and only for illustration that society has lost its moral compass and I think the reason for the current rioting. Having an abortion at someone else's expense teaches society that OUR lives are far more important than someone else's and is in keeping with the new idea of entitlement. Now, blacks are entitled to what white people have even if they haven't paid a price. White's are entitled to free lunches and college even if they haven't paid a price. We are teaching that there should be NO consequences to our actions and in-actions and that we can dead others do what we want to because we do not want to have any pain or fear. There are no hundreds of millions of abortions each year in this world. I find that disgusting. It says OUR lives are the only thing that matters and leads to people insisting that their children and grand children should have to pay for societal shutdown and possible depression because they are afraid of getting sick, even though the FACTS say that someone under 45 has an infinitesimal chance of dying.

Abortion on demand has led us to the rioting in 2020. A world of entitlement and selfishness beyond all reason. Recently they arrested white rich kids...twentysomethings who were rioting, not protesting. They had no life because they were given everything by their rich parents. They have it in the heads, like OAC, that everyone SHOULD be rich and their should be no price to pay.
 
Paradoxical said:
Depending on what information you accept, from your own post, at a minimum, 65% of those who have abortions are paid for by tax payers. Project Veritas caught Planned Parenthood years ago in a sting. Heritage.org says that abortions make up 95% of PP resolution services. If that is true, their name should be changed to Panned Abortions. I have a niece who is a druggie and has had SIX abortions. On three occasions now, she has had to have the baby because she was too far along. One of those, my daughter adopted and the baby and my daughter had to endure the withdrawal procedure. The first baby turns out to be half Asian and is the love of my daughters life. The other two, my daughter wanted but couldn't afford.

That is off topic and only for illustration that society has lost its moral compass and I think the reason for the current rioting. Having an abortion at someone else's expense teaches society that OUR lives are far more important than someone else's and is in keeping with the new idea of entitlement. Now, blacks are entitled to what white people have even if they haven't paid a price. White's are entitled to free lunches and college even if they haven't paid a price. We are teaching that there should be NO consequences to our actions and in-actions and that we can dead others do what we want to because we do not want to have any pain or fear. There are no hundreds of millions of abortions each year in this world. I find that disgusting. It says OUR lives are the only thing that matters and leads to people insisting that their children and grand children should have to pay for societal shutdown and possible depression because they are afraid of getting sick, even though the FACTS say that someone under 45 has an infinitesimal chance of dying.

Abortion on demand has led us to the rioting in 2020. A world of entitlement and selfishness beyond all reason. Recently they arrested white rich kids...twentysomethings who were rioting, not protesting. They had no life because they were given everything by their rich parents. They have it in the heads, like OAC, that everyone SHOULD be rich and their should be no price to pay.
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This is the biggest pile I've read in a long time.
 
weaver2 said:
Since banning abortion is a conservative dream how will you accomplish this and what kind of solution do you proposer dealing with the 700,000 additional unwanted children ?
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Wrong question and from the conservative position also irrelevant.

Pro-life is really just pro-birth. Full stop.

Conservatives do not care what happens to unwanted children that are born, at that point it becomes an argument about the "responsibility" of others for having that unwanted child to then deal with that. When challenged on that position the response is a series of 'should have' arguments that are monumentally useless.

We know, not suspect but know, that education and access to birth control is the answer. But conservatives do not like that either so we end up at this abortion debate totally ignoring that even pie in the sky miracle occurs and all abortions are outlawed... we know they will still happen, and probably to horrible consequences.

Not that conservatives give a shit about that either.
 
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