What is the most efficient solution for gun control? (1 Viewer)

[TheMadKing]

This is something that has perplexed me to no end. Before arriving at an agreeable solution somethings must be hashed out. Why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime? What is really preventing any reform? The upholding of the constitution or interest groups? After answering these questions...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

 

[Rucker61]

This is something that has perplexed me to no end. Before arriving at an agreeable solution somethings must be hashed out. Why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime? What is really preventing any reform? The upholding of the constitution or interest groups? After answering these questions...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

What are acceptable crime levels, ie, the levels to which we can say that a solution to gun violence has been found and successfully implemented?

 

[TheMadKing]

What are acceptable crime levels, ie, the levels to which we can say that a solution to gun violence has been found and successfully implemented?

I do not know what the acceptable levels would be but I know the statistic in question would be gun deaths per 100,000 people. That's usually the standard yet when people think of that statistic they most likely think of gang violence which isn't so much about the gun control issue as much as it's about poor education, poor neighborhoods, lack of opportunity, economic perpetuation etc. So when the average person hears that statistic, thinking of gang violence, they don't care nearly as much as they do about mass shootings therefore using that statistic will not spur political activism as much as mass shooting statistics, in relation to the gun control issue.

 

[DebateChallenge]

I do not know what the acceptable levels would be but I know the statistic in question would be gun deaths per 100,000 people. That's usually the standard yet when people think of that statistic they most likely think of gang violence which isn't so much about the gun control issue as much as it's about poor education, poor neighborhoods, lack of opportunity, economic perpetuation etc. So when the average person hears that statistic, thinking of gang violence, they don't care nearly as much as they do about mass shootings therefore using that statistic will not spur political activism as much as mass shooting statistics, in relation to the gun control issue.

An acceptable level for violent crime would be zero but the fact of the matter is we will never get it that low, there will always be violent crime. So the thing to do is get it as low as we can.

As for gun deaths, the problem is that all too often gun deaths are singled out. We have to look at all premature deaths, not just gun deaths. Then we need to ask if more or less gun control will raise the premature death rate, lower the premature death rate, or keep it the same.

 

[PleasantValley]

GENERAL RANT, not directed to anyone but those who want to deny me my second most important right.

The most efficient way to deal with " gun control " is to shut up about it and move on to subjects that really matter.

There is not one proposal that has not been tried before and failed miserably.
We are NOT Japan, we are NOT Sweden, we are NOT Australia, we are the United States of American and we have gun ownership written into our bill of rights.
Second only to freedom of speech. It is that important, and has nothing to do with hunting.
Shut up about "gun control". We are wise to your intentions and you can't sugar coat them anymore.

Youyr intentions have nothing to do with "safety", they are not "for the children", and there is nothing "common sense" about them.
You want 100% confiscation so we can not resist your other plans to take away the rest of our freedoms.
That is why you hate guns so much. They stand between you and your dictatorial goals.

It really bothers you that civilians can practice daily with their guns and achieve master levels of marksmanship.

You = Gun banners, or anyone else who pretends it is something else. it is not.

 

[Rucker61]

I do not know what the acceptable levels would be but I know the statistic in question would be gun deaths per 100,000 people. That's usually the standard yet when people think of that statistic they most likely think of gang violence which isn't so much about the gun control issue as much as it's about poor education, poor neighborhoods, lack of opportunity, economic perpetuation etc. So when the average person hears that statistic, thinking of gang violence, they don't care nearly as much as they do about mass shootings therefore using that statistic will not spur political activism as much as mass shooting statistics, in relation to the gun control issue.

The reason I ask is that if even a single mass shooting were to occur, with a fully licensed firearm limited to 5 rounds used by a shooter who passed background checks, training and psych evals, they'd still ask for more. There is a vocal minority in the GCA community who would be satisfied if a solution was 99.97% ineffective. It's hard to reason with that mindset.

 

[Bucky]

This is something that has perplexed me to no end. Before arriving at an agreeable solution somethings must be hashed out. Why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime? What is really preventing any reform? The upholding of the constitution or interest groups? After answering these questions...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

I think we should adopt a policy similar to Australia. Conservatives over restricted guns. The conservatives over there think Republicans over here are crazy over gun rights. Based on their record on reducing gun violence, they may be right.

 

[Rucker61]

I think we should adopt a policy similar to Australia. Conservatives over restricted guns. The conservatives over there think Republicans over here are crazy over gun rights. Based on their record on reducing gun violence, they may be right.

Find a recent red/blue map of the states. Start counting red states. Stop when you get to 13.

Notice that the OP is in regards to "efficiency". Getting to Australian style laws would not be "efficient".

 

[Into the Night]

This is something that has perplexed me to no end. Before arriving at an agreeable solution somethings must be hashed out. Why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime? What is really preventing any reform? The upholding of the constitution or interest groups? After answering these questions...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

Using both hands.

 

[Into the Night]

An acceptable level for violent crime would be zero but the fact of the matter is we will never get it that low, there will always be violent crime. So the thing to do is get it as low as we can.

Not possible. violent crime is part of society. It always has been, whether the weapon is a gun, knife, club, sword, bomb, or anything else.

As for gun deaths, the problem is that all too often gun deaths are singled out. We have to look at all premature deaths, not just gun deaths. Then we need to ask if more or less gun control will raise the premature death rate, lower the premature death rate, or keep it the same.

Irrelevant. The 2nd amendment does not allow the government to restrict any kind of weapon, including guns.

 

[Into the Night]

The reason I ask is that if even a single mass shooting were to occur, with a fully licensed firearm limited to 5 rounds used by a shooter who passed background checks, training and psych evals, they'd still ask for more. There is a vocal minority in the GCA community who would be satisfied if a solution was 99.97% ineffective. It's hard to reason with that mindset.

Heh. There is no reasoning with that mindset. You are dealing with illiterate people that do not know anything about guns, people that want to restrict them so they can implement socialism in America and destroy the Constitution, and people desiring a Utopian false sense of security. All of these are like any fundamentalist religious fanatics.

 

[Into the Night]

I think we should adopt a policy similar to Australia. Conservatives over restricted guns. The conservatives over there think Republicans over here are crazy over gun rights. Based on their record on reducing gun violence, they may be right.

The Unites States is not Australia. Their laws and policies don't apply here. We also happen to have this thing called the Constitution of the United States in the way of your idea.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Not possible. violent crime is part of society. It always has been, whether the weapon is a gun, knife, club, sword, bomb, or anything else.

As I said, we will never get it down to zero but we should try to get it as low as we can.

Irrelevant. The 2nd amendment does not allow the government to restrict any kind of weapon, including guns.

When you say "any kind of weapon" that could mean nuclear bombs. The government restricts those.

 

[DebateChallenge]

The Unites States is not Australia. Their laws and policies don't apply here. We also happen to have this thing called the Constitution of the United States in the way of your idea.

Exactly. The USA is not Australia or the UK or Japan. How things are done in those places is not how things are done here.

 

[Bum]

This is something that has perplexed me to no end. Before arriving at an agreeable solution somethings must be hashed out. Why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime? What is really preventing any reform? The upholding of the constitution or interest groups? After answering these questions...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

I think you are looking at the subject from the wrong angle; you frame the discussion as though guns are the problem, and not people.

I dont think you can really control violence without addressing legal reform and the criminals in question.....why make it harder for the law abiding when the legal system plays catch and release with the criminals?

Anthony Rouda was released from jail after spending LESS than a year in jail for being a felon in possession of a firearm after already having been convicted of possession of explosives.....He then went on to shoot and kill a father as he slept in a tent with his daughters.

Why are we not seeking ways to keep these people in prison for a longer period of time when they have already proven themselves to pose a threat to society?

No, I do not think we are addressing the actual problem.

 

[Bucky]

Exactly. The USA is not Australia or the UK or Japan. How things are done in those places is not how things are done here.

Aaaah, never have I seen a more beautiful scrap-metal yard!

"I would not presume to lecture the American candidates. I would just point out that we are a safer country, and I would say I understand what a terrible burden gun deaths are on black America. Black males make up 6 per cent of the US population, yet they comprise 46 per cent of gun related homicide," he said.

"Americans will often say to me there are so many guns in circulation the only way the good guys can protect themselves is to also have a gun. Now I think that is a stupid argument myself."

Mr Howard estimates that the gun buyback in Australia was the equivalent of taking 30 to 40 million guns out of circulation in the US.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/sei...ed-australia-john-howard-20160424-godwg6.html

 

[Bucky]

The Unites States is not Australia. Their laws and policies don't apply here. We also happen to have this thing called the Constitution of the United States in the way of your idea.

You confiscate semi's and auto's and throw them all away in a scrap metal yard, that would instantly make us safer.

 

[DebateChallenge]

View attachment 67248955

Aaaah, never have I seen a more beautiful scrap-metal yard!



https://www.smh.com.au/national/sei...ed-australia-john-howard-20160424-godwg6.html

Then you can go to Australia and look at it if you think its so beautiful, because you will never see that in the USA.

 

[Rucker61]

You confiscate semi's and auto's and throw them all away in a scrap metal yard, that would instantly make us safer.

You're off-topic again. Getting to a complete ban and an comprehensive confiscation of firearms in common use for lawful purposes is not an efficient solution.

 

[jamesrage]

The reason I ask is that if even a single mass shooting were to occur, with a fully licensed firearm limited to 5 rounds used by a shooter who passed background checks, training and psych evals, they'd still ask for more. There is a vocal minority in the GCA community who would be satisfied if a solution was 99.97% ineffective. It's hard to reason with that mindset.

This is why 2nd amendment advocates shouldn't cave to the demands of the gun control crowd. Because every law they want is not enough. Its kind of like this illustration here. Grant it doesn't show every gun control law enacted but it does give you the gist of why 2nd amendment advocates should not cave.Because each gun control law is not step towards more severe restrictions and possibly a ban.

 

[VanceMack]

This is something that has perplexed me to no end. Before arriving at an agreeable solution somethings must be hashed out. Why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime? What is really preventing any reform? The upholding of the constitution or interest groups? After answering these questions...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

Well...You STARTED the thread...what do you mean when you say 'gun control' and what are you proposing? What needs reform and of what you propose where is the evidence it will make a difference without infringing on the Constitutional rights of law abiding citizens?

If you want to know why so many people oppose it, imagine you are one of a group of 120 MILLION law abiding citizens, and a large group of people are demanding that YOUR rights be radically altered and even eliminated because of the actions of 2-3 people a year. How would YOU respond to that?

 

[VanceMack]

View attachment 67248955

Aaaah, never have I seen a more beautiful scrap-metal yard!



https://www.smh.com.au/national/sei...ed-australia-john-howard-20160424-godwg6.html

And while you are patting yourself on the back about that image, you might chew on the fact that there have been more mass murders in Australia in the 25 years AFTER the passage of that ban than there were in the 25 years PRIOR to that ban. You also might want to nibble on the fact that as gang populations and illegal activity has occurred more in Australia, you guessed it, so has gun crime...even WITH their strict laws.
OH...and heres the capper...you may need a glass of water to choke down this fact, but despite all the leftist arguments about gun control and suicide, the suicide rates in Australia are higher than the US...and they DONT use firearms as their primary means fo committing suicide.

But you just keep sitting there crapping yourself with glee over a worthless image.

 

[Rich2018]

...why exactly do some people want gun control? Mass shootings or everyday crime?

Yes mass shootings - running at about 1 per day. And specifically gun crime - with about 10,000 gun related homicides per year.


Today is Jan 27th - and we have so far 24 (TWENTY-FOUR) mass shootings so far:


https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

...what is really preventing any reform?

The second amendment

...what does a solution to gun control actually look like and will it work?

Repeal the 2nd amendment
Ban all firearms from private ownership*
Ban the sale of ammunition to private individuals


Once all firearms are banned, allow a provision so that the Executive Branch can make exceptions - like single action, single shot hunting rifles or single/double barreled shotguns.

 

[Rucker61]

Yes mass shootings - running at about 1 per day. And specifically gun crime - with about 10,000 gun related homicides per year.


Today is Jan 27th - and we have so far 24 (TWENTY-FOUR) mass shootings so far:


https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting





The second amendment





Repeal the 2nd amendment
Ban all firearms from private ownership*
Ban the sale of ammunition to private individuals


Once all firearms are banned, allow a provision so that the Executive Branch can make exceptions - like single action, single shot hunting rifles or single/double barreled shotguns.

We'll need to toss the 4th Amendment and allow summary executions, too.

 

[Rich2018]

We'll need to toss the 4th Amendment and allow summary executions, too.

I'm sure Republicans would love to do that.

They'd gleefully scrap the whole Constitution apart from the 2nd amendment.