What is the foundation for your moral and political beliefs?

[Chomsky]

I am still greatly influenced by family (parents, grandparents, aunts & aunts) and Catholicism.

I suppose that sounds pretty prosaic, but it's a journey of the heart rather than mind.

 

[LouC]

Have you ever asked yourself where your moral and political beliefs come from?

Yes.

If so, did you ever find an answer that satisfied you?

Yes.

 

[Roger Duke]

Regarding political beliefs, there is an interesting article I read recently that basically says you pick your political party, and then you adopt their positions whether you originally agreed with them or not. The party itself drives belief.

The Political Spectrum Does Not Exist - Heterodox Academy

“Right-wing” and “left-wing” are entirely tribal designations and have no unifying philosophy or principle behind them.

heterodoxacademy.org

Wow! This is a MUST READ for everybody interested in politics.....which means everybody on DP. Thanks so much for posting this Mach.

 

[Chomsky]

Early years you're typically taught good/bad behavior (if at all). You don't necessarily understand it or get it from a good source.
Then we layer in society to help determine morality.

As you get older, you may use reason to arrive at morality independant of your upbringing and/or society.

As we experience reality, draw conclusions from our feelings and actions and their effect on others.

Game theory can help describe how certain "moral" behaviors come into being. Tit for tat with forgiveness in an iterative dilemma, for example.

Regarding political beliefs, there is an interesting article I read recently that basically says you pick your political party, and then you adopt their positions whether you originally agreed with them or not. The party itself drives belief.
This is basically the "my team" description of political involvement. Us against them. This is how you end up, for example, with an American political party who goes from being against Russia, to being pro-Russia, so they claim.

The Political Spectrum Does Not Exist - Heterodox Academy

“Right-wing” and “left-wing” are entirely tribal designations and have no unifying philosophy or principle behind them.

heterodoxacademy.org

Wow! This is a MUST READ for everybody interested in politics.....which means everybody on DP. Thanks so much for posting this Mach.

Yes, it is a good read!

But, I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion that we're all destined to fall prey to the "essentialist theory".

For instance, I briefly joined the Dems in response to Trump, but left them after 2 years - in part because I didn't want to be associated with some of them. Now, I'm an Indie again.

 

[Jacksprat]

Yes, it is a good read!

But, I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion that we're all destined to fall prey to the "essentialist theory".

For instance, I briefly joined the Dems in response to Trump, but left them after 2 years - in part because I didn't want to be associated with some of them. Now, I'm an Indie again.

Most of your posts show you to be a conservative.

 

[Questerr]

Have you ever asked yourself where your moral and political beliefs come from?
If so, did you ever find an answer that satisfied you?

Secular humanism for morals

Mutualism/anarcho-socialism with an emphasis on maximal democracy for political beliefs. Basically pre-Marx socialist thinkers as well as people like Kropotkin.

 

[D_NATURED]

My morality and politics continue to evolve as my understanding of myself and humanity changes. My morality was informed by fundamentalists when I was a child, but I grew away from its deliberate cruelty and arrogant, magical thinking. Then I became very liberal and rejected my upbringing, but came to realize, around 30, that my utopian dreams were as naive and childish as the heaven I was taught to desire in childhood. Now, I try to be a realist. I want to be honest with myself and others, because nothing else has made me as happy and as prosperous.

I'm sure, as I enter my golden years, my perspective may change again. I may find myself needing comfort more than truth, and religion may make sense again. I hope, though, that I don't, because I realize that morality is an intellectual process, not a commandment from above. And politics is just the manifestation of our personal morality, and fails us all when it's more about our property than propriety.

 

[Chomsky]

My morality and politics continue to evolve as my understanding of myself and humanity changes. My morality was informed by fundamentalists when I was a child, but I grew away from its deliberate cruelty and arrogant, magical thinking. Then I became very liberal and rejected my upbringing, but came to realize, around 30, that my utopian dreams were as naive and childish as the heaven I was taught to desire in childhood.

Man, you could have described my life's journey there, though I returned to religious association relatively quickly in early mid-life.

We're often raised conservative, become liberal as we leave the clutches of our parents & churches (I became Libertarian - Argh!). Then in middle-age we float into some pragmatic blend, as we deal with the realism of responsible life.

Now, I try to be a realist. I want to be honest with myself and others, because nothing else has made me as happy and as prosperous.

Q.F.T.!

Man, I preach this far & wide! The most important thing in life, bar none, is to practice objective realism. By this I'm speaking of being objectively & brutally honest, most importantly starting with brutal honesty in evaluating one's self (& how we fit in the world).

It's amazing how easily we can self-deceive ourselves without realizing it. Substance abusers come easily to mind as examples, but they're only the tip of the iceberg. Self-deception is everywhere.

I'm sure, as I enter my golden years, my perspective may change again. I may find myself needing comfort more than truth, and religion may make sense again. I hope, though, that I don't, because I realize that morality is an intellectual process, not a commandment from above.

Fair enough. I'm sure it appears contradictory to preach of pragmatic reality, but then claim to draw comfort in religiosity/spirituality, but it can be done. For those of us that practice it, spirituality adds a wonderful added dimension to our lives that further enriches it, and we enjoy that fuller richness.

And politics is just the manifestation of our personal morality, and fails us all when it's more about our property than propriety.

Interesting. I might agree.

I consider politics,

"the sports of life"

 

[Queen Margo]

Have you ever asked yourself where your moral and political beliefs come from?
If so, did you ever find an answer that satisfied you?

While growing up I often wondered why I did not think like my family. I use to joke and ask if I was adopted even though I knew I wasn't.
We were not church goers after my mother died at my early age of 8, but I always talked to God.
We were not a military family.
I don't think anyone even voted, but I always remember my dad saying "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" which is still being said by the Dems.
I recall hearing the N word when speaking of black people in our house.
My dad did not like me or women in general.
I learned to make fun of myself as a coping mechanism.
I say all this as I have often wondered where I did get my beliefs from. Was I born with them?
I know this post must sound strange, but it got me thinking about this again and my fingers typed what came to mind.
I don't think I have found the answer yet.

 

[Drowning Man]

 

[Ren]

The problem is the Golden Rule presumes everybody is exactly alike. A boisterous, extroverted person may love playing loud music all the time. He assumes everyone likes it and cannot understand requests to turn it down.

Then the noise maker doesn't follow or understand the Golden Rule, therefore he is nothing like adherents to the Golden Rule.

 

[Jacksprat]

Then the noise maker doesn't follow or understand the Golden Rule, therefore he is nothing like adherents to the Golden Rule.

No. That person truly believes that others want to hear his music and cannot understand the complaint.
'I would not mind loud music, so that is how I treat others.'

 

[Ren]

No. That person truly believes that others want to hear his music and cannot understand the complaint.
'I would not mind loud music, so that is how I treat others.'

If he doesn't understand the complaints then he certainly doesn't understand the Golden Rule. He understands HIS idea of the Golden Rule, but it's not the ACTUAL Golden Rule.

 

[Jacksprat]

If he doesn't understand the complaints then he certainly doesn't understand the Golden Rule. He understands HIS idea of the Golden Rule, but it's not the ACTUAL Golden Rule.

Treat others as you want to be treated. He believes that.

 

[Ren]

Treat others as you want to be treated. He believes that.

Then he's down for ANY type of music or noise blaring into HIS ears that comes from somebody else.

 

[Jacksprat]

Then he's down for ANY type of music or noise blaring into HIS ears that comes from somebody else.

Yes.

 

[Ren]

Yes.

That person doesn't exist.

And that's certainly not what the Golden Rule is about.

 

[Drowning Man]

For all you "golden rule" advocates, what if one is a masochist?

 

[Jacksprat]

That person doesn't exist.

And that's certainly not what the Golden Rule is about.

Very real. I've been there.

 

[Jacksprat]

For all you "golden rule" advocates, what if one is a masochist?

That's my point. Projecting your proclivities as universal is wrong.

 

[Drowning Man]

That's my point. Projecting your proclivities as universal is wrong.

From all of my studies of religion, philosophy, morals, ethics, rules, laws, etc....the only constant that I've seen is that they all fall short.

 

[Ambig]

As much as I can.

I have to admit that sometimes I fail and then...I do unto others as they have done to me. I'm not proud of that, but it happens.

The trick is to honestly turn things around. If the POTUS of the opposite party had acted as your POTUS acts... would you think of him differently? That's how a person develops morality, I think.

Fierce tribalism is immoral, in my view, in most all cases.

But I'm not very political.

 

[Jacksprat]

From all of my studies of religion, philosophy, morals, ethics, rules, laws, etc....the only constant that I've seen is that they all fall short.

There is no final or absolute morality. My revision of the golden rule is, treat others as they would like to be treated.

 

[Drowning Man]

There is no final or absolute morality. My revision of the golden rule is, treat others as they would like to be treated.

True. I mean, what if you get a person who wants someone to kill and eat them (has happened)?

 

[Drowning Man]

Mycroft is a big Trump supporter. Mycroft, using the golden rule, wants to be lied to and wants to lie to others.