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What is Putin’s end game?

watsup said:
Putin invades Ukraine. Lots of sanctions, including against Putin himself and his family, and Russian banks being shut out of the world banking community. Putin says if he gets personally sanctioned, he will cut off all diplomatic relations with the West. Clearly, we are in Cold War II because Putin wants it that way. So what is his end game? What is he trying to prove?
He has already embarrassed four US presidents: Junior Bush (“I looked into his soul” and invasion of Georgia); Obama (“Reset”) and invasion of Crimea; Trump (“he said he didn’t do it, and I believe him”); and now Biden with the coming invasion of Ukraine. He clearly likes to get the best of US presidents, and he evidently thinks the he can do okay without the West, or does he think that European countries will be relaxing sanctions in order to get energy, and he can thereby split the West? What is the point of all this?
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So long as there are economic bonds between Russia and China and then China with the rest of the world then Russia isn't cut off.
 
justoneman said:
Not a thread about Trump. He is not the president at the moment.
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No shit, who asked you? Who are you defending now, traitor trump or putin? 🤡
 
I highly doubt Putin wants to revive the USSR but he probably sees Ukraine joining NATO as an expansion of a relic of the cold war.
 
bomberfox said:
I highly doubt Putin wants to revive the USSR but he probably sees Ukraine joining NATO as an expansion of a relic of the cold war.
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Putin wants the history books to view him as anti-Gorbachev, reviving the Soviet Union. Putin has clearly declined in sanity, like trump.
 
Restoration of the USSR.
 
bomberfox said:
I highly doubt Putin wants to revive the USSR but he probably sees Ukraine joining NATO as an expansion of a relic of the cold war.
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If you lived in the Baltic countries you might not be really comfortable in that doubt.
 
Ex KGB, says the worst thing that ever happened to Russia was the fall of the Soviet Union. I think he want the USSR back. He's working to take back as much as he can. He even gave a speech a little while back in which he laid it all out.
 
watsup said:
What is the point of all this?
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I think he wants to conquer anything that he can get away with conquering.

His immediate goal is probably to capture Odessa and the entire north coast of the Black Sea. Maybe he will push into Moldova, maybe not.

Once he has finished with Ukraine, he will consider invading the EU unless we have forces in place sufficient to repel his invasion. I think we will put such forces into place.

If we keep Ukraine well enough armed that Putin spends the next 30 years bogged down in fighting there, that will keep him too busy to think about invading the EU.
 
Felis Leo said:
Well, naturally. But destabilizing the west is a means to an end. What is the end that he seeks?
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Well, reading his mind is, as past experiences have shown, a bit like gazing at the sludge at the bottom of my coffee jug to get a reliable forecast of whether I'm going to win a lottery tomorrow.

Nevertheless one is left only with making educated guesses.

Mine would be that the ivory tower he has ensconced himself in, supported by surrounding himself there with devoted lackies of the "yessir, yessir, three bags full sir" variety, has not only resulted in his removal from any sense of reality, but has, in his reasoning, actually served to confirm his view of the outside world.

Creating a skewered logic by which he, in the long term, can actually drive NATO out of the Baltics, cause the EU to become disunited as never before, and subsequently be an entity of influence over the whole area, Europe and US included, to be respectfully reckoned with in the sense of controlling influence over all of it

Additionally, and solely in my own personal speculation, I'd posit that he's also pursuing his ambition of Russian history seeing him as the greatest ruler Russia has enjoyed since Peter the Great, in that he's making Russia great again. Read that as his end game closely linked to the legacy he wants to be remembered for.

Of course the "greatness" he pursues could be achieved more intelligently by reforming the basket case that his country, save for its by now enhanced military capacity, has become. That would however require pissing off the oligarchs and, certainly for an extended period of time, his own people, since modernizing the economy, the industry and all the other fields so direly in need of reform cannot be financed from the state coffers, however improved those have become since the Crimean adventure.

So, in his delusional assessments, he'd rather prevent the example of a Ukraine on his border demonstrating what a democratic state (no matter the democratic deficits still existing there) can achieve by way of economic prowess, by choosing to squash it and, most likely, forcing it to install a government as supportive of hisself as Belorus or, lately, Kasachstan.

That's my take and, in support of another thread in here that is titled "Mea culpa, I was wrong", I could be wrong just as much. But I don't really think so.
 
watsup said:
Putin invades Ukraine. Lots of sanctions, including against Putin himself and his family, and Russian banks being shut out of the world banking community. Putin says if he gets personally sanctioned, he will cut off all diplomatic relations with the West. Clearly, we are in Cold War II because Putin wants it that way. So what is his end game? What is he trying to prove?
He has already embarrassed four US presidents: Junior Bush (“I looked into his soul” and invasion of Georgia); Obama (“Reset”) and invasion of Crimea; Trump (“he said he didn’t do it, and I believe him”); and now Biden with the coming invasion of Ukraine. He clearly likes to get the best of US presidents, and he evidently thinks the he can do okay without the West, or does he think that European countries will be relaxing sanctions in order to get energy, and he can thereby split the West? What is the point of all this?
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destabilizing the west
reform ussr
sit atop the world with china and nobody else using force and oppression
 
AGENT J said:
destabilizing the west
reform ussr
sit atop the world with china and nobody else using force and oppression
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He doesn't stand a chance

U.S. military spending 2020 $778 billion

Russian military spending 2020 $61.71 billion
 
Linc said:
Putin wants the history books to view him as anti-Gorbachev, reviving the Soviet Union. Putin has clearly declined in sanity, like trump.
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Clearly, they both have. Only trump was always less intelligent and less sane......but as we all know, more of a sniveling coward.
 
rickc said:
I certainly hope not. We have screwed up every military action we have been in since WWII.

Still in Korea. Have 750 military bases outside the U.S.

U.S. military spending 2020 $778 billion

Russian military spending 2020 $61.71 billion

A head to head confrontation between the Russian and American military could escalate very quickly. What happens when putin realizes he is losing?
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Yes, it's never wise to back a rabid dog into a corner.
 
justoneman said:
Not a thread about Trump. He is not the president at the moment.

Putin made a point some time ago to recognize the Russian ancestor citizens in the break-away Donbas region as Russian citizens (issuing the Russian passports). In the end there will always be conflict in Ukraine. wherever that ends up stopping. Perhaps Putin stops with the capture of the Donbas region.
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Helsinki tRumPutin
 
rickc said:
He doesn't stand a chance

U.S. military spending 2020 $778 billion

Russian military spending 2020 $61.71 billion
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That depends what they're spending it on. Cyberwarfare, Presidential morons, UK Conservative Party, Brexit. They haven't cost a lot.
 
Ukraine, as with our own Southern States years ago, tried to break away. Putin like Lincoln, won't allow that to stand. Civil War breaks out.
 
rickc said:
He doesn't stand a chance

U.S. military spending 2020 $778 billion

Russian military spending 2020 $61.71 billion
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didnt say he stands a chance LOL the question was what is his end game and I believe thats his honest goal

also the money being spent is meaningless in that goal IMO

if he was successful at destabilizing us and ruining us from the inside (see failed insurrection and people that down play it and or support it) then doing cyber attacks (with Chinas help) the money spent on troops and weapons really doesn't matter that much. But again I dont think theres a chance just a weakness that he has already exploited and cut us with.

While Im confident that we prevail at this current date, i do have doubts that if we dont focus on those types of attacks it will end us in the future, but that future is well after my lifetime
 
VySky said:
Ukraine, as with our own Southern States years ago, tried to break away. Putin like Lincoln, won't allow that to stand. Civil War breaks out.
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Ukraine is not a beak away from Russia. It is its own sovereign nation. Your analogy is not applicable.
 
justoneman said:
Ukraine is not a beak away from Russia. It is its own sovereign nation. Your analogy is not applicable.
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Sure it is. The south had the Southern White House. Lincoln like Putin wasn't going to allow it. Putin just had to wait for the right time to get America at her weakest. Lincoln was able to move early on.
 
VySky said:
Sure it is. The south had the Southern White House. Lincoln like Putin wasn't going to allow it. Putin just had to wait for the right time to get America at her weakest. Lincoln was able to move early on.
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You do not know what you are talking about at all. The Ukraine is not a break away territory of Russia. Ukraine is its own sovereign nation.
 
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