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What is Patriotism?

What are your thoughts about patriotism


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Lovebug

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So this opinion piece caught my interest this morning, and I am interested what people think about the meaning of patriotism, and whether the author's attempt to define it is on target. Thanks

snippet
The vast majority of Americans consider themselves patriots — even if, as Gallup found in June, less than half of poll respondents considered themselves “extremely proud” to be American. This was the first time this has happened in almost two decades of polling on the question.The two broad strands outlined by The Times inarguably exist. We all remember the naval hero Stephen Decatur’s famous toast in 1816, “Our country, right or wrong.” And Senator Carl Schurz’s amendment a half-century later: “My country, right or wrong — if right, to be kept right, if wrong, to be set right.” We may criticize our country, in other words, but this is not motivated by malice. It’s motivated by special affection and a belief that a great country can be made greater.
“There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America,” President Clinton argued, laying out a vision of patriotism that is not about symbols, but about building on a nation’s intangible strengths.
I buy that. I believe that patriotism means getting on with the serious business of improving our country. It means that we strive to ensure that we live up to our pledge of liberty and justice for all. In this formulation, patriotism is best expressed not in parades or speeches or exhortations or conspicuous displays, but in what we do.
https://www.bainbridgereview.com/opinion/what-does-it-really-mean-to-be-patriotic-lee-h-hamilton/
 

Moderate Right

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So this opinion piece caught my interest this morning, and I am interested what people think about the meaning of patriotism, and whether the author's attempt to define it is on target. Thanks

snippet

https://www.bainbridgereview.com/opinion/what-does-it-really-mean-to-be-patriotic-lee-h-hamilton/

I don't really agree or disagree. Merriam Webster defines patriotism as: love for or devotion to one's country. I guess it is just up to everyone else to fill in the blanks.
 

Vadinho

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It's another word for tribalism.
 

DaveFagan

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"My Country, right or wrong." That's not patriotism, it's stupidity. I support my Country when we are right and attempt to right our wrongs, but and it's a big BUT, you can't right the dead in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Nicaragua, Panama, Chile and elsewhere. You can't right the wrongs of manipulating governments to protect CORPORATE resources at the expense of local citizens. USA Citizens are generally very good people. Quick to help. Generous. Charitable. Many positive virtues, but those virtues are lost in USA Government translation that benefits Corporations because of bought and sold, rented politicians. CORPORATISM distorts citizen's emotions into financial decisions. Am I patriotic about GE, IBM, Monsanto, Raytheon, ad infinitum? Screw 'em all! They are leeches attached to the USA corpus and embody the antithesis of patriotism.
/
 

Felis Leo

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It's another word for tribalism.

I think that is too flippant and far too shallow a read, Vadinho. Tribalism is non-patriotic, because it relies on the stock one puts in the importance of one's ethnic group. If you are a tribalist, you believe your blood ties with other people who share your family name and language are the be all and end all of any social or political consideration one makes. For example, the Taliban rely on the tribalistic loyalty of their fellow Pashtun in both Afghanistan and Pakistan for their continued support and existence, while engaging in terror against government institutions and those who support those institutions in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Patriotism, meanwhile, allows one to transcend such atavistic behavior, and put one's loyalty to the nation as a whole and its institutions and its culture.

I believe that history shows us that it is when patriotism is killed that tribalism comes back and fills the void, rather than patriotism being the next evolutionary stage of tribalism. One need only take a look at a country like Yugoslavia and see what happened when it broke up, with Croats, Serbs, Bosnians and Albanians all at one another's throats. Such is what happens when all sense of patriotism dies. Tribalism and ethno-nationalism take its place.
 
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Felis Leo

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So this opinion piece caught my interest this morning, and I am interested what people think about the meaning of patriotism, and whether the author's attempt to define it is on target. Thanks

snippet

https://www.bainbridgereview.com/opinion/what-does-it-really-mean-to-be-patriotic-lee-h-hamilton/

Breathes there the man, with soul so dead,
Who never to himself hath said,
This is my own, my native land!
Whose heart hath ne'er within him burn'd,
As home his footsteps he hath turn'd,
From wandering on a foreign strand!
If such there breathe, go, mark him well;
For him no Minstrel raptures swell;
High though his titles, proud his name,
Boundless his wealth as wish can claim;
Despite those titles, power, and pelf,
The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung.


-Sir Walter Scott
 

Pedestrian

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Patriotism is nothing more than my country is the best in the world and simply because I was...born in it.

Example: Discussion about Russia and bloggers are rightfully taking that country to task. One eventually says, come on now, I am sure there

are some proud Russians here who would disagree.

Why ? Just what do they have to be proud of when Russians have been living centuries under either Czarist or communist despotism.

They have been living as either feudal serfs or communist slaves to the state. Just what is there to be proud of ?

Russia's biggest export after oil, is intrigue, crime and interference.
 

Elvira

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IMO, nationalism and sovereignty denies the basic truth that we all belong to the same human family, regardless of linguistic or cultural differences...that denial is what leads to wars...

“Schools in all countries inculcate the principles of patriotism. The conditioning that requires all to rally around the flag is of particular importance in winning subordination to military and foreign policy.” -Former U.S. Ambassador John K. Galbraith

“The Vietnam War produced in the United States one of the most comprehensive efforts in social conditioning [adjusting of public opinion] in modern times. Nothing was spared in the attempt to make the war seem necessary and acceptable to the American public.” -Former U.S. Ambassador John K. Galbraith

“The spirit of nationality is a sour ferment of the new wine of democracy in the old bottles of tribalism.” -Historian Arnold Toynbee

“Sovereignty is a major cause of contemporary war; unless altered, the system of sovereign nation-states will trigger World War III.” -Historian Arnold Toynbee
 

Bum

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What is Patriotism?


Ask a thousand people and you will get a thousand different answers; however, patriotism should never be blind allegiance and obedience.
 

Vadinho

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I think that is too flippant and far too shallow a read, Vadinho. Tribalism is non-patriotic, because it relies on the stock one puts in the importance of one's ethnic group. If you are a tribalist, you believe your blood ties with other people who share your family name and language are the be all and end all of any social or political consideration one makes. For example, the Taliban rely on the tribalistic loyalty of their fellow Pashtun in both Afghanistan and Pakistan for their continued support and existence, while engaging in terror against government institutions and those who support those institutions in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Patriotism, meanwhile, allows one to transcend such atavistic behavior, and put one's loyalty to the nation as a whole and its institutions and its culture.

I believe that history shows us that it is when patriotism is killed that tribalism comes back and fills the void, rather than patriotism being the next evolutionary stage of tribalism. One need only take a look at a country like Yugoslavia and see what happened when it broke up, with Croats, Serbs, Bosnians and Albanians all at one another's throats. Such is what happens when all sense of patriotism dies. Tribalism and ethno-nationalism take its place.

In the long progression of human history, most of our time here as a species involved being closely aligned with tribes, clans, families, etc. We are conditioned to think of the group, our group, as the favored or preferred group. I am merely stating that patriotism is the product of this type of human behavior. Sure it can be nuanced, it can be simple or it can be very complex but in essence, it is a part of tribalism.
 

Empirica

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It's another word for tribalism.
Americans are a gathering of freedom loving people that fled to The New World and formed a unique nation based on the principles of liberty and individualism.

The idea of "We the People" was only necessary whenever their way of life was threatened; which is quite contrary to your theory of "tribalism".

Patriotism is nothing more than my country is the best in the world and simply because I was...born in it.
The Measure of a Country
During a recent interview Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain was quoted giving the following answer to one his parliament members as to why he believes so much in America and its President?

Blair’s reply — “A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at … how many want in … and how many want to get out.”


IMO, nationalism and sovereignty denies the basic truth that we all belong to the same human family, regardless of linguistic or cultural differences...that denial is what leads to wars...
If you can convince this to the Taliban, Isis, Iran, North Korea, Red China, Vladimir Putin and the Progressive/Democrat Party; I'm sure the US will happily join them in an international rendition of "We Are The World".

Sovereignty is a major cause of contemporary war; unless altered, the system of sovereign nation-states will trigger World War III.” -Historian Arnold Toynbee
America's strength and security is rooted in sovereignty...as is world peace.

And until humanity evolves beyond hate, fear, greed, and power lust; it will remain so.
 

Lovebug

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Comments about nationalism, sovereignty and tribalism make me wonder how many use the terms interchangeably. That doesn't seem what Hamilton is trying to convey. Far the opposite, imho. Am I wrong?
 

Tom Horn

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It’s where you’ve determined that all can be surrendered for the common good of a nation or commonwealth. Patriots come in just two flavors. Coffee or cherry.
 

Vadinho

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Americans are a gathering of freedom loving people that fled to The New World and formed a unique nation based on the principles of liberty and individualism.

The idea of "We the People" was only necessary whenever their way of life was threatened; which is quite contrary to your theory of "tribalism".

The Measure of a Country
During a recent interview Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain was quoted giving the following answer to one his parliament members as to why he believes so much in America and its President?

Blair’s reply — “A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at … how many want in … and how many want to get out.”


If you can convince this to the Taliban, Isis, Iran, North Korea, Red China, Vladimir Putin and the Progressive/Democrat Party; I'm sure the US will happily join them in an international rendition of "We Are The World".


America's strength and security is rooted in sovereignty...as is world peace.

And until humanity evolves beyond hate, fear, greed, and power lust; it will remain so.

Boy, you really bought into the story line...its good to believe in stories though as long as you realize its just a story...
 

Empirica

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Boy, you really bought into the story line...its good to believe in stories though as long as you realize its just a story...
You have absolutely no idea how lucky you are...I, on the other hand, do.

My brothers and I are 1st generation American born citizens; and very thankful for it.

Our parents were born behind the dark ugly Iron Curtain of a totalitarian police state.
 

Phys251

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Patriotism is placing your country first, but not to the detriment of other countries. It is making sacrifices for your country, and working to improve it. It does not mean you cannot criticize your country, or fail to realize that it could do better. And there is an inherent greatness to the US that makes it a leader of nations; but even greatness can be improved upon.
 

Vadinho

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You have absolutely no idea how lucky you are...I, on the other hand, do.

My brothers and I are 1st generation American born citizens; and very thankful for it.

Our parents were born behind the dark ugly Iron Curtain of a totalitarian police state.

I was born in Morocco, I too came here as an immigrant of sorts. I am glad you are happy here but beware, no nation has a clean history or storyline. We just do the best we can and hope we do right more then we do wrong. I do apologize that we elected Trump, he is not what America stands for.
 

enderpotato00

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I was born in Morocco, I too came here as an immigrant of sorts. I am glad you are happy here but beware, no nation has a clean history or storyline. We just do the best we can and hope we do right more then we do wrong. I do apologize that we elected Trump, he is not what America stands for.

Why do you think Trump won? Maybe b/c people are fed up with the liberal elite telling them that they need to think a certain way?
 

akyron

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I was born in Morocco, I too came here as an immigrant of sorts. I am glad you are happy here but beware, no nation has a clean history or storyline. We just do the best we can and hope we do right more then we do wrong. I do apologize that we elected Trump, he is not what America stands for.


So what stops you from heading home if California and the rest of the US is so awful?
 

Empirica

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I was born in Morocco, I too came here as an immigrant of sorts. I am glad you are happy here but beware, no nation has a clean history or storyline. We just do the best we can and hope we do right more then we do wrong. I do apologize that we elected Trump, he is not what America stands for.
Could you please be more specific, Vadinho.

Exactly what is it about Trump that "is not what America stands for"?
 

Vadinho

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Could you please be more specific, Vadinho.

Exactly what is it about Trump that "is not what America stands for"?

Everything. He is not America, he is simply a moron and represents the basest instincts of a con man and fool. The world is filled with men like him but they rarely assume power in the West. Unfortunately, that story you heard about us has a flaw. The story is that we are good, righteous, honest, fair and just. His presence makes a mockery of those values.
 

Vadinho

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So what stops you from heading home if California and the rest of the US is so awful?

I am home. I would love to return for a visit though and enjoy some tahine. You see, I was born an American abroad.
 

Empirica

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Everything. He is not America, he is simply a moron and represents the basest instincts of a con man and fool. The world is filled with men like him but they rarely assume power in the West.
Once again; can you please be more specific as to why Trump "is not what America stands for"?

Surely there must be some example you can share which we can have a rational discussion about?

Unfortunately, that story you heard about us has a flaw. The story is that we are good, righteous, honest, fair and just. His presence makes a mockery of those values.
Sorry Vadinho but I have no idea what "story" you are referring to here?

Remember; rational discussion is impossible without specifics to work with.

And I very much wish to know the specific reasons why you feel as you do about Trump?

Or at least one specific reason; although I'm sure there must be more?

Something Trump has said or done that is responsible for your opinion of him?
 
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