What is a woman? What is a man?

[mrjurrs]

No...I expose your pathetic attempt to exploit intersex people to try to argue your pro tranny arguments.

Your baseline intelligence is indicated by your continued use of derogatory slang.

 

[VanceMack]

Your baseline intelligence is indicated by your continued use of derogatory slang.

The level of your character is demonstrated in your willingness to use a class of people to justify your support for trannys.

 

[HIP56948]

I care not who does good.

 

[Court Jester]

That's a simplistic view, what about people who have a vagina and a penis? Who have external testes and internal ovaries, and vice versa?

Biological sex in humans is determined by either the xx sex chromosome (female), or the xy sex chromosome (male).

And then the important question, why the hell does it matter if someone biologically man or woman has the brain telling them they are the opposite sex and wants to be considered the opposite sex?

Well, what happens if "in their brain" it is telling them they are a unicorn? Does what they feel in their head have power over what their chromosomes have already determined?

It doesn't except for shitty humans, who typically tend to be religions nutjobs

Define religion in that context? Do you mean like what inside someone's head is telling them?

The Brain is very complex, so simple minded people can't break it down into black or white, reality doesn't work that way

XX or XY. Pretty simple.

 

[mrjurrs]

The level of your character is demonstrated in your willingness to use a class of people to justify your support for trannys.

And your continued use of derogatory terms clarifies your position. Wallow in your slop, makes zero difference to me.

 

[Phys251]

Biological sex in humans is determined by either the xx sex chromosome (female), or the xy sex chromosome (male).

And genitalia and hormone levels.

 

[Phys251]

And your continued use of derogatory terms clarifies your position. Wallow in your slop, makes zero difference to me.

Some people seem to have a pathological need to punch down.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

That's a simplistic view, what about people who have a vagina and a penis? Who have external testes and internal ovaries, and vice versa?

And then the important question, why the hell does it matter if someone biologically man or woman has the brain telling them they are the opposite sex and wants to be considered the opposite sex? It doesn't except for shitty humans, who typically tend to be religions nutjobs

The Brain is very complex, so simple minded people can't break it down into black or white, reality doesn't work that way

This thread is about what is a man and what is a woman. I gave my definition. Do you have one that is different?

That's not a simplistic view. That's reality. People born with deformities like male and female genital forms are intersex. That's a very rare condition, and it doesn't change the fact that there are men and there are women. Those with intersex conditions are called intersex, hermaphrodites, or that they have ovotesticular syndrome.

Why does it matter? For a lot of reasons, not the least of which is eligibility to participate in women's sports, eligibility for women's scholarships, and other such sex-based issues.

I don't think it "doesn't except for shitty humans." It matters to my daughters who will be competing in sports, hoping for awards, scholarships, and opportunities in women's sports. It seems to me pretty shitty to have Lia Thomas transition and compete against my daughters. Isn't that shitty?

The brain is complex, but stop conflating gender identity with sex. The trans folks always remind us not to do that, but then they proceed immediately, as you did, to conflate gender identity and sex. A person can identify as female, while being of the male sex. Those are two different things. The notion that only the gender identification matters, and not the biological sex is simply counterfactual and contrary to reality.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

You are defining biological sex. What would you call people that are intersex?

Intersex, or hermaphrodites.

And humans are sexually dimorphic primates, yes, exactly. A woman is an adult human female. That woman may well identify as a male, female, both, neither, or fluid, and may express female, male or fluid or neither - who knows? Doesn't change the fact that if we dug up her grave in 200 years, that homo sapien would be female - a woman. There is nothing hateful or phobic about that.

 

[mrjurrs]

Intersex, or hermaphrodites.

And humans are sexually dimorphic primates, yes, exactly. A woman is an adult human female. That woman may well identify as a male, female, both, neither, or fluid, and may express female, male or fluid or neither - who knows? Doesn't change the fact that if we dug up her grave in 200 years, that homo sapien would be female - a woman. There is nothing hateful or phobic about that.

They would be making assumptions based on one factor, biological sex. Nothing wrong with that, but in living humans, we know much more. Gender comes from the brain, not the genitals.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

They would be making assumptions based on one factor, biological sex. Nothing wrong with that, but in living humans, we know much more. Gender comes from the brain, not the genitals.

Gender has nothing to do with it. The reason males and females should be in separate sports divisions is so females can have a level playing field. This is not about their gender identity.

You've conflated sex and gender here. You say "they would be making assumptions based on...biological sex..... but in humans...gender comes from the brain, not the genitals..." Sure - of course, but sex comes from the DNA, and that's the point. Sex isn't gender identity.

 

[mrjurrs]

Gender has nothing to do with it. The reason males and females should be in separate sports divisions is so females can have a level playing field. This is not about their gender identity.

You've conflated sex and gender here. You say "they would be making assumptions based on...biological sex..... but in humans...gender comes from the brain, not the genitals..." Sure - of course, but sex comes from the DNA, and that's the point. Sex isn't gender identity.

And you are conflating sex with who a person is. The body is a vessel, the mind determines who you are. Is a man that loses his genitals a man? Of course, because his mind has determined that he is male.

Gender identity is real, just as biological sex is. Which has more impact, the brain or the body?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

And you are conflating sex with who a person is. The body is a vessel, the mind determines who you are. Is a man that loses his genitals a man? Of course, because his mind has determined that he is male.

Gender identity is real, just as biological sex is. Which has more impact, the brain or the body?

No, "who a person is" is not now and never has been the reason why males and females are separated. Their biological sex is the reason.

A male that loses his genitals is a male, yes, and not because his "mind" determined it. He is as male as a male chimpanzee or a male gorilla. We are primates.

When it comes to sports, the body has decisive importance.

 

[reflechissez]

No, "who a person is" is not now and never has been the reason why males and females are separated. Their biological sex is the reason.

A male that loses his genitals is a male, yes, and not because his "mind" determined it. He is as male as a male chimpanzee or a male gorilla. We are primates.

When it comes to sports, the body has decisive importance.

So this thread is really about transgenders in sports? Why didn't you say so in the OP?

 

[mrjurrs]

No, "who a person is" is not now and never has been the reason why males and females are separated. Their biological sex is the reason.

A male that loses his genitals is a male, yes, and not because his "mind" determined it. He is as male as a male chimpanzee or a male gorilla. We are primates.

When it comes to sports, the body has decisive importance.

Show me the rule, de jure not de facto

 

[Skylar Nova]

What's the definition, or what are the definitions, if there are multiple usages.

To me, I define a woman as an adult human female, and a man as an an adult human male.

Female as denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes. I define male as denoting the sex that produces small, typically motile gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.

These definitions do not require that a primate be fertile in order to be considered male or female. In primates as in other mammals, the sex is determined chromosomally, so an infertile female is still female, etc. But an analysis of chromosomes.

Humans have a lot of different ways of thinking about things, and complex emotional and psychiatric thoughts and feelings. So, it is certainly possible that a person will "identify" as something other than their sex, and therefore they might call themselves a woman or a man, when their sex is not female or male, etc. However, that doesn't change their sex. The person would still be a sexually a woman or a man, without reference to gender identity.

A man is a person with male genetics; a woman is a person with female genetics. It's not that complicated.

 

[Fishking]

That's a simplistic view, what about people who have a vagina and a penis? Who have external testes and internal ovaries, and vice versa?

It's not simplistic, as intersex is 0.018% of the population, and that's not really part of the discourse surrounding this issue. It is, however, the exception that is pushed to the front to use as a shield on the broader subject, like you did.

And then the important question, why the hell does it matter if someone biologically man or woman has the brain telling them they are the opposite sex and wants to be considered the opposite sex? It doesn't except for shitty humans, who typically tend to be religions nutjobs

The Brain is very complex, so simple minded people can't break it down into black or white, reality doesn't work that way

Reality and truth matters.

 

[jotathought]

That's a simplistic view, what about people who have a vagina and a penis? Who have external testes and internal ovaries, and vice versa?

And then the important question, why the hell does it matter if someone biologically man or woman has the brain telling them they are the opposite sex and wants to be considered the opposite sex? It doesn't except for shitty humans, who typically tend to be religions nutjobs

The Brain is very complex, so simple minded people can't break it down into black or white, reality doesn't work that way

Sigh .. not a great argument considering androgynous people represent such a tiny percentage of overall Americans .. like less than .5% - .7% of the population.

 

[ProgressPlease]

Gender identity is real, just as biological sex is. Which has more impact, the brain or the body?

For women, sex is what is impactful. Feelings or state of mind are not why girls and women around the world face, rape, abuse, discrimination, breast ironing, child marriage, forced marriage, forced pregnancy, forced abortion, forced sterilization, sex trafficking, abandonment for being the wrong sex, infanticide, inferior health care, lack of medical research for women's health issues, lack of access to education, every day street harassment, etc, etc, etc.
Millions upon millions of girls have suffered the horrors of genital mutilation, to keep "purity" and control sexuality - based simply on biological sex.

All this on the basis of sex.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

This is a woman.
Sydney Sweeney. Thats my baby.

 

[mrjurrs]

For women, sex is what is impactful. Feelings or state of mind are not why girls and women around the world face, rape, abuse, discrimination, breast ironing, child marriage, forced marriage, forced pregnancy, forced abortion, forced sterilization, sex trafficking, abandonment for being the wrong sex, infanticide, inferior health care, lack of medical research for women's health issues, lack of access to education, every day street harassment, etc, etc, etc.
Millions upon millions of girls have suffered the horrors of genital mutilation, to keep "purity" and control sexuality - based simply on biological sex.

All this on the basis of sex.

No, not based on sex at all. It is based on mens desire to maintain their position of dominance over women.

 

[ProgressPlease]

No, not based on sex at all. It is based on mens desire to maintain their position of dominance over women.

Exactly. Based on a woman's sex which is based on our reproductive capacity/anatomy.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

No, not based on sex at all. It is based on mens desire to maintain their position of dominance over women.

When you say "women" what do you mean? What's your definition of that word?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Show me the rule, de jure not de facto

Title IX of the United States Code applies to "sex" not gender, so college sports (in federally funded institutions) create women's NCAA and other college athletics programs to allow women (females) ostensibly equal opportunity in athletics. Doesn't say "gender." That's one.

With regard to private athletics organizations - leagues that are created by private individuals - say, the NFL, or the NHL, there is no law that says they have to be divided based on sex, and women are technically allowed to try out for and play for any pro team that will have them. There is a reason why women (meaning their sex - female) don't play in professional men's (meaning their sex) sports leagues - mainly the reason is that that in 99.99%+ of the cases, females cannot effectively compete physiologically in those leagues. So, that's the reason why sex is in fact a determining factor. Women can try out for the NBA, but men aren't allowed to try out for the WNBA. It's because of the advantage of their sex, not gender identity.

The existence of biological sex, moreover, is not an issue of law or legislation. It's an issue of biological science and genetics. There is no getting around that humans are animals, we are mammals, and we are primates. We have two sexes, like all other primates. And, those sexes have differences.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

So this thread is really about transgenders in sports? Why didn't you say so in the OP?

No, not necesarily. I was asked which has more importance, the brain or the body. Obviously, that depends. When it comes to doing mathematics, the brain has quite a bit of importance over the body, but when it comes to playing sports, while the brain is necessary, the body has a decisive importance such that male/female phsyiology significantly impacts performance.
So, I was responding to that question posed to me.

The OP is narrower, and doesn't really relate to a person's opinion on the "significance" or "importance" of one thing or another, and it doesn't relate to why something "matters" (another question posed on here). The thread is about the definition of the words noted - woman and man. There is a resistance to answering that on the part of some who are apparently interested in the topic (because they came to the thread) and use the words regularly. For example, if one is going to say that X is a "real" woman or "real" man, one must have a notion of what those things are.

Logically, a man is not a woman, right? A is not B. Basic logic. If those words mean different things, then we should be able to define what is different.