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What Has The GOP Done For Workers

haymarket said:
A job that you cannot support a family on is not exactly textbook American Dream.
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union jobs in right to work states are fully capable of supporting a family.

it is sad you have to resort to outright lies to push your agenda.
 
ARealConservative said:
union jobs in right to work states are fully capable of supporting a family.

it is sad you have to resort to outright lies to push your agenda.
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but with less income and with a less generous pension. here, see for yourself:
... # the average full-time, full-year worker in an RTW state makes about $1,500 less annually than a similar worker in a non-RTW state.
The rate of employer-sponsored pensions is 4.8 percentage points lower in RTW states ...
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The Compensation penalty of
 
justabubba said:
but with less income and with a less generous pension. here, see for yourself:

The Compensation penalty of
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pensions and outrageous income for the skills required are what are killing private union jobs as it stands.

but nothing you provided backs up the lie that you can't support a family in a right to work state.
 
ARealConservative said:
anybody with a 5th grade reading level would understand where I accused you of lying.
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pretend I don't have one. tell me straight using words a fourth grader would understand .... where was the lie in my post?

here it is

Mister Vicchio said this

At least, we have jobs.
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I replied with this



A job that you cannot support a family on is not exactly textbook American Dream.
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So where is the lie?
 
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haymarket said:
A job that you cannot support a family on is not exactly textbook American Dream.
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What, do you really believe only government jobs provide enough income for people to live off of? LOL.

Here's a question for you, if everyone had government jobs, how would the government raise money?

Also, Unions hurt the worker pools, and harm businesses.

Unions effectively tax these investments by negotiating higher wages for their members, thus lowering profits. Unionized companies respond to this union tax by reducing investment. Less investment makes unionized companies less competitive.
This, along with the fact that unions function as labor cartels that seek to reduce job opportunities, causes unionized companies to lose jobs. Economists consistently find that unions decrease the number of jobs available in the economy. The vast majority of manufacturing jobs lost over the past three decades have been among union members--non-union manufacturing employment has risen. Research also shows that widespread unionization delays recovery from economic downturns.
Some unions win higher wages for their members, though many do not. But with these higher wages, unions bring less investment, fewer jobs, higher prices, and smaller 401(k) plans for everyone else. On balance, labor cartels harm the economy, and enacting policies designed to force workers into unions will only prolong the recession.
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http://www.heritage.org/research/re...-how-labor-unions-affect-jobs-and-the-economy
 
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vic, lay off the kool aid. the heritage foundation's take on the effects of unionization is beyond wrong:
Unions effectively tax these investments by negotiating higher wages for their members, thus lowering profits.
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in many cases unionized shops achieve higher profitability than their nonunionized counterparts
higher wages attracts a higher calibre of employee
Unionized companies respond to this union tax by reducing investment. Less investment es"makes unionized companies less competitive.
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but then the realized higher profitability causes the firms with better skilled employees to be more competitive, thereby providing more capital for investment or distribution to the owners
This, along with the fact that unions function as labor cartels that seek to reduce job opportunities, causes unionized companies to lose jobs.
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that is beyond stupid. why would unions work to have fewer union jobs?
Economists consistently find that unions decrease the number of jobs available in the economy.
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the only way this could be explained is that the better skilled union employees work more efficiently than the less capable employees
The vast majority of manufacturing jobs lost over the past three decades have been among union members--non-union manufacturing employment has risen.
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this is absolutely bogus. ALL manufacturing jobs are down. it is true that new manufacturing does tend to create new facilities in union hostile states
Research also shows that widespread unionization delays recovery from economic downturns.
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i can't imagine why this would be true which is why i would be delighted to see the referenced research establishing this ... especially since the heritage piece is found wrong in so many other assertions
Some unions win higher wages for their members, though many do not. But with these higher wages, unions bring less investment, fewer jobs, higher prices, and smaller 401(k) plans for everyone else.
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as was documented in an earlier post, employees in union friendly states achieve about a 4% higher retirement benefit than employees in right to work states. the higher benefit went to all employees, whether unionized or not. unionized states average incomes are greater ... for both unionized and nonunion labor. would love to see the data which "proves" reduced capital investment is due to unionization
On balance, labor cartels harm the economy, and enacting policies designed to force workers into unions will only prolong the recession.
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the ultra reich wing heritage foundation (jesse helms' favorite to cite) comes to a bogus conclusion - one which will delight its wealthy industrialist benefactors like milliken - and then fabricates misinformation/propaganda to backfill its wrong conclusions

this is the crap you fall for
just like the crap you fell for in the last neocon regime
 
I posted this

A job that you cannot support a family on is not exactly textbook American Dream.
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Mr. V posted this in response

What, do you really believe only government jobs provide enough income for people to live off of? LOL.
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Where do you get the idea that my post says anything about governmetn jobs and income?????
 
MrVicchio said:
What, do you really believe only government jobs provide enough income for people to live off of? LOL.
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Every full time job should provide a living wage - if not, its not a job but slavery!
 
ARealConservative said:
8 of the top 11, AND the aggregate point to lower unemployment in right to work states.

that is the facts.

it was asked what the gop has done for workers - they have facilitated an environment prone to lower unemployment.
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Just curious. Why did you stop at 11? 11 is such an odd number, people usually reference the top 10, 15 or 20.

Could it be that there isn't another right-to work state in the top 20 on that list? That would certainly reduce the impact of the '8 out of 11', wouldn't it?

But it really doesn't matter because my point was that unemployment is pretty much the same in right-to-work states and non right-to-work states AND just because a state is a right-to-work state doesn't mean their aren't unions in that state. I know because I live in a right-to-work state and was a proud union member at one time.
 
Easy answer,create jobs by helping businesses.While the democRATS create
socialism and destroy jobs by over regulating and high taxes.Liberals are losers.
 
BWG said:
Just curious. Why did you stop at 11? 11 is such an odd number, people usually reference the top 10, 15 or 20.
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there was a tie at 10. so either I include 9 or 11.
 
W00ster said:
Every full time job should provide a living wage - if not, its not a job but slavery!
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Every holder of a full time job accepted the offer and is legally free to quit at any time. This makes the job something fundamentally different than slavery.



Duh.
 
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justabubba said:
vic, lay off the kool aid. the heritage foundation's take on the effects of unionization is beyond wrong:
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Yes, I'm sorry, I'll only source to union approved propaganda sir!
justabubba said:
in many cases unionized shops achieve higher profitability than their nonunionized counterparts
higher wages attracts a higher calibre of employee
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Why, business are run by fools then! EVERY Company should beg for unions to come in, why didn't I REALIZE this???
justabubba said:
but then the realized higher profitability causes the firms with better skilled employees to be more competitive, thereby providing more capital for investment or distribution to the owners
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Why... it's a revelation!
justabubba said:
that is beyond stupid. why would unions work to have fewer union jobs?
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I know, it's madness, obviously companies with Unions have been expand due to the high caliber workers, better productivity and higher profits! I guess I've been falling for lies for YEARS!!!
justabubba said:
the only way this could be explained is that the better skilled union employees work more efficiently than the less capable employees
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I know, any company that doesn't employ Union Workers is just shooting themselves in the foot!
justabubba said:
this is absolutely bogus. ALL manufacturing jobs are down. it is true that new manufacturing does tend to create new facilities in union hostile states
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See, these companies are being run by idiots! Why non-union manufacturing is just slave labor and unskilled pukes pushing out crap products! It's a travesty!
justabubba said:
i can't imagine why this would be true which is why i would be delighted to see the referenced research establishing this ... especially since the heritage piece is found wrong in so many other assertions
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And your source, your own opinion is most obviously the superior intellect!
justabubba said:
as was documented in an earlier post, employees in union friendly states achieve about a 4% higher retirement benefit than employees in right to work states. the higher benefit went to all employees, whether unionized or not. unionized states average incomes are greater ... for both unionized and nonunion labor. would love to see the data which "proves" reduced capital investment is due to unionization
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It's just LIES MAN! Lies by BIG CORPORATIONS to keep the man down!!!

justabubba said:
the ultra reich wing heritage foundation (jesse helms' favorite to cite) comes to a bogus conclusion - one which will delight its wealthy industrialist benefactors like milliken - and then fabricates misinformation/propaganda to backfill its wrong conclusions

this is the crap you fall for
just like the crap you fell for in the last neocon regime
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Okay, I tried your koolaide, it required no thought and all emotion... I think I'm slightly nauseous. Oh wait, that's not what you said... oh well. It was fun though to just go on "pulled out of the ass opinions" instead of ya know, a credible source. It didn't require thought, just emotionalism.

I think I'll stick with being anti-Union, it's just smarter that way.


(PS, why did the Japanese Automakers forego building plants in Union States if all your bs was even remotely true? Why is it most private company Unions are dying and the only area Unions are growing is in Government? Here's a hint, Unions drive companies into the dirt, but Government... bit harder to drive into the dirt, but they sure are trying hard.
 
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