What happens once all abortions are made illegal in this country?

[jnug]

Getting the ball rolling on an amendment for minimal basic abortion rights to address medical issues, rape, and incest/child abuse, would not be difficult to get off the ground. Besides the anti-crowd only making up 13% of the population, the argument AGAINST protecting those rights would not get off the ground in any significant way. If politicians side with the 13% over the 85%, they will get elected out of office over an issue as big as abortion, and they know it.

Get it off the ground....that is not the equivalent of getting it done.

Plus, why wouldn't people who claim to be pro-choice want to get behind going for it? I'm convinced more and more by the "we don't even want to try because [insert some insanely illogical, usually playing the victim reason that is grounded in no reality whatsoever, as repeatedly demonstrated by multiple posters earlier in the thread]" that the so-called pro-choicers would rather sabotage any progress because they don't want to give up the "they're going to ban abortion" fear card that they've relied on for several decades in an effort to win elections.

Just pass a BILL for god sake.

The bolded in the quote box is a matter of projection by Righties trying to deflect from having rejected the Senate Supplemental negotiated by one of the most conservative Republicans in the Senate just because Donnie said so. You want to point me to a women's reproductive rights advocate that would have deep sixed a similar Bill if it was negotiated by both sides and ready for passage. And before you go there even as a BILL what you are proposing is not the equivalent for women's reproductive rights that the Senate Supplemental was to Border Security.

The fight's over--they lost the messaging and the momentum on the issue. Time to centrally organize around the positions that 85% of Americans can agree on and build from there. It's the only smart play they have.

Now that is simply obtuse. You are not paying attention. The middle of this country represented by the largest voting block in the country, Independents do not want Religious Radicals in their bedrooms, in their wombs in their medicine chests nor fooling around with their frozen embryos in stasis outside the womb. That cuts across the border and the economy as the Right has made it so.

Or, they can double down on the moronic strategy that has failed this miserably so far and continue to sit on their hands and bitch while rights are continuously stripped away one by one. But, hey, at least they'll still have something to endlessly bitch about, right?

You don't post very "Moderate" to me. Maybe you should modify your profile.

 

[Lursa]

Nope. What do I look like, your ****ing personal assistant? Get real and don't make such needy posts. And what's with the weirdo bullshit of making up a bunch of arguments and falsely attributing them to me and then asking me to educate you about them, as if they were my positions.

Of course your admission that you cannot support your claim that some "basic arguments" have a basis in intelligence is not a surprise.

I said rape, incest/child abuse, and life of mother as a minimal rights list. Where the **** did you come up with all that other bullshit?

I addressed those and then showed related issues that arose from them. Again...nothing "intelligent" from you to support your claim.

Do you really need to have it explained to you why the things I actually did cite are intelligent propositions? Really?

Of course...and since you cannot (did not) explain how they are "intelligent proposals", it appears I'm right

Your building frustration at your failure is becoming more and more apparent.

 

[jnug]

One of the reasons, if not the main reason the Trump cult did so poorly in 2022 was because of the Dobbs decision. The cult is taking it even further now, threatening blocking access to both birth control and IVF. Suburban women, even conservative women aren't taking kindly to the signals the cult is sending and it's going to be pretty hard for the cult to win any elections doing what they're doing.

I am optimistic the court's not going to outlaw mifepristone, for example. They realize with the Dobbs decision they're "the dog who caught the car". They're going to have to slow their roll if they don't want to further harm their reputation.

They don't need to. The new plan for the Right is to simply get a Republican....and we know which one.....back to the WH and then simply have him order FDA to modify its guidance regarding mifepristone and that will be the end of that.

This is so keeping in spirit with the current GOP, utterly thrilled by simply using power to override science burning institutions of government to the ground in the process.

PAY ATTENTION. For a multitude of reasons, this being one of them, Trump cannot be allowed back to the WH.

 

[Ganondagan]

Instead of worrying about the rather obvious intentions of the Christian Radical Right I would suggest we stop them....stop them dead in their tracks. Their "intentions" are not broadly popular. Their primary tool is the abuse of power. So take the power away.

What power is that?

 

[StarvedForChange]

They don't need to. The new plan for the Right is to simply get a Republican....and we know which one.....back to the WH and then simply have him order FDA to modify its guidance regarding mifepristone and that will be the end of that.

This is so keeping in spirit with the current GOP, utterly thrilled by simply using power to override science burning institutions of government to the ground in the process.

PAY ATTENTION

Yeah, that's a valid concern. But first Trump has to win. And given the damage Dobbs and the drive from the religious right via the Trump cult to push us all back to the 1800's by eliminating access to birth control and IVF, I feel a Trump win is unlikely. Then, of course there's all the crime's Trump has committed. That's diverting all the funds he's raising to his legal fees, rather than to his campaign.

 

[weaver2]

You know he was being sarcastic, right?

I didn't realize that when I posted it. I just posted in fury and a hurry and left to get teeth extracted. Having re-read I owe an apology. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Anyone who thinks that abortions will remain legal in parts of this country are just fooling themselves. The aim of a minority of Americans is that all abortions will once again be against the law and they will not stop until they have succeeded. They have ended Roe, next they will stop the use of abortion medications, and finally contraceptives, it will be a never-ending process that might take many more years, but it will happen. The final nail in the coffin will be the life begins at conception and giving a fetus the same rights as a live person. The real problem not faced by those who wish this is what happens then. The same people who want to end abortion also want to end what they call the welfare state. So in what is one of the wealthiest nations on earth, many more children will starve than already do. Of course, the wealthy can still send their women out of the country to get what the rest of the nation cannot.

I think you are spewing fear & rhetoric.

The USSC already decided that abortion is a state issue.................... and states are now adding abortion rights to their constitution.

 

[roguenuke]

View attachment 67501309

85% collaborating to defeat 13% isn't that difficult.

Majorities of residents in 43 states and the District of Columbia say that abortion should be legal in most or all cases, and in 13 of those states and in DC, more than seven in ten residents support legal abortion. There are only seven states in which less than half of residents say abortion should be legal in most or all cases: South Dakota (42%), Utah (42%), Arkansas (43%), Oklahoma (45%), Idaho (49%), Mississippi (49%), and Tennessee (49%).

43 states isn't that difficult to defeat 7 states. And 43 >>> 33.

The states aren't divided evenly in population and there are more than 12 states that would refuse to ratify that Amendment, even if they managed to get over 60% of each House of Congress to implement it (not likely given the polarization of our political landscape).

 

[roguenuke]

That's a silly response. You obviously just want to be mad about fake victimhood instead of actually solving part of this problem.

How about a simpler math problem, broken down so even you can comprehend it....44 states have a majority of their citizens being in support of at least some legal abortion protections. 33 states is a 2/3rds majority.

44 - 33 = 11. So there's an 11 state advantage of citizen support that exceeds the minimum threshold of getting an amendment passed.

Stop feigning outrage that this is a lost battle and start demanding that your representatives do the most obvious thing, which is to organize around the 85% of citizens who support some abortion rights being codified.

You need 3/4 of the states to ratify an amendment, not just 2/3. It requires 2/3 of the votes of each part of the representatives in Congress (2/3 of House and 2/3 of Senate) to pass the Amendment. Those representatives are not put in place based on their feelings about abortion alone, but rather a whole lot more. It's far more complicated than you are presenting it to get an Amendment passed and ratified.

 

[Zyphlin]

There is almost no chance in the near or moderate future for abortion to be banned nation wide without some sort of paradigm shifting new information or technology coming out. This is a pointless and flawed premise

 

[OrphanSlug]

"What happens once all abortions are made illegal in this country?"

Assuming for a moment this happens as the OP stipulates, what will happen is very simple. Abortions will still happen, just under two distinct categories.

For women who were knocked up by wealthy white Republican politicians pretending to be Christian they will still occur largely in secret surrounded with all the medical safety and procedure that hush money can provide. For just about everyone else they will also still occur, but for them in terrible conditions dodging the will of those Republican politicians meaning zero safety and odds are at the hands of whoever is available using heated up metal clothes hangers bent up into a very unique shapes.

 

[Gordy327]

"What happens once all abortions are made illegal in this country?"

The bottom line is, women will suffer.

 

[Irredentist]

There is almost no chance in the near or moderate future for abortion to be banned nation wide without some sort of paradigm shifting new information or technology coming out. This is a pointless and flawed premise

Yeah, that's what people used to say about roe v wade being overturned. We know better now. Take no chances.

 

[Zyphlin]

Yeah, that's what people used to say about roe v wade being overturned. We know better now. Take no chances.

Except a large amount of people weren't saying that. That's a massively different situation.

In one instance you had, at various points, an entire political party and ~50% of the country desiring it and making it an issue irepeatedly in national elections.

The other is a fringe portion of a political party, with a pretty similarly sizable portion of the party vehemently against it, and the current figurehead of the national party negative towards that outcome.

Practically half the country was desiring the overturning of Roe the day after it was decided. That's just not the case at all with birth control.

You're comparing apples or oranges.

 

[Irredentist]

Except a large amount of people weren't saying that. That's a massively different situation.

In one instance you had, at various points, an entire political party and ~50% of the country desiring it and making it an issue irepeatedly in national elections.

The other is a fringe portion of a political party, with a pretty similarly sizable portion of the party vehemently against it, and the current figurehead of the national party negative towards that outcome.

Practically half the country was desiring the overturning of Roe the day after it was decided. That's just not the case at all with birth control.

You're comparing apples or oranges.

Except polls have consistently shown that a clear majority of Americans support legal abortion, and did not want Roe v. Wade overturned. It was only, as you put it, a fringe portion who wanted it overturned.

 

[OrphanSlug]

The bottom line is, women will suffer...

... intentionally.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Gordy327]

... intentionally.

Fixed it for you.

Thanks. And anti abortionists are to blame.

 

[Hello My Son]

Of course your admission that you cannot support your claim that some "basic arguments" have a basis in intelligence is not a surprise.



I addressed those and then showed related issues that arose from them. Again...nothing "intelligent" from you to support your claim.



Of course...and since you cannot (did not) explain how they are "intelligent proposals", it appears I'm right

Your building frustration at your failure is becoming more and more apparent.

Lol, they're "intelligent" because it's an "intelligent" strategy to coalesce around an 85% to 13% advantage. If that's so complicated for you, it's no wonder you're angry all the time.

If you want to have an obsessive argument about the morality of abortion, then start another god damned thread and piss and moan to your heart's content there.

Making up a bunch of dumb shit in your posts and then pretending like I said it in some weird projective effort to create an argument that you are predetermined to have with somebody....ANYBODY... is pathetic as ****.

 

[VanceMack]

Its kinda funny that at this moment this thread sits right above the "Peddling Fear" thread currently ongoing.

 

[Hello My Son]

You need 3/4 of the states to ratify an amendment, not just 2/3. It requires 2/3 of the votes of each part of the representatives in Congress (2/3 of House and 2/3 of Senate) to pass the Amendment. Those representatives are not put in place based on their feelings about abortion alone, but rather a whole lot more. It's far more complicated than you are presenting it to get an Amendment passed and ratified.

You only need 2/3rds of the states to PROPOSE an amendment. Starting the process would only require 33 states.

But as far as ratification goes, you need 38 states, which is still less than 44, the number of states in which a majority of citizens agree that at least minimal abortion rights should be legally granted.

 

[roguenuke]

You only need 2/3rds of the states to PROPOSE an amendment. Starting the process would only require 33 states.

But as far as ratification goes, you need 38 states, which is still less than 44, the number of states in which a majority of citizens agree that at least minimal abortion rights should be legally granted.

It doesn't matter what the majority of the people support. It matters what the actual representatives those people elect support. Many do not hold that issue, unfortunately, as a top priority issue when it comes to voting for the politician. You are refusing to recognize that the reason politicians are able to get into law those things that most people don't want is because there are many, many issues that a person votes for a representative on and their choices are limited.

 

[Hello My Son]

The states aren't divided evenly in population and there are more than 12 states that would refuse to ratify that Amendment, even if they managed to get over 60% of each House of Congress to implement it (not likely given the polarization of our political landscape).

I never suggested that the states were divided evenly in population. 44 states do have a majority of people who want at least some guaranteed abortion rights. So if more than 12 states would refuse to ratify, several of them would be going against the will of their own citizens to do so. If that occurred, there would most definitely be consequences for those particular politicians on an issue that's this significant (and they'd know it before voting, so it'd be political suicide for them to refuse to ratify in those particular states). The fact of the matter is, even if it doesn't get through, it starts a major movement toward getting it done. The current Democratic approach of sitting idly by while the GOP strips away one protection after another is not feasible at all, especially when 85% of the population and 44 out of 50 states hold the majority view on abortion. It's astonishing how many people want the Democrats to not take any significant action. It's like their reasoning is, "If I can't have everything I want, then I'm completely throwing in the towel on abortion."

 

[Hello My Son]

It doesn't matter what the majority of the people support. It matters what the actual representatives those people elect support. Many do not hold that issue, unfortunately, as a top priority issue when it comes to voting for the politician. You are refusing to recognize that the reason politicians are able to get into law those things that most people don't want is because there are many, many issues that a person votes for a representative on and their choices are limited.

You're looking at it too singularly. It matters if it's made into a central issue through actions like this, because politicians don't keep their jobs if people don't reelect them, and people don't reelect politicians if they blatantly go against the will of the majority of voters on the biggest hot-button political issue of the past few generations.

 

[roguenuke]

I never suggested that the states were divided evenly in population. 44 states do have a majority of people who want at least some guaranteed abortion rights. So if more than 12 states would refuse to ratify, several of them would be going against the will of their own citizens to do so. If that occurred, there would most definitely be consequences for those particular politicians on an issue that's this significant (and they'd know it before voting, so it'd be political suicide for them to refuse to ratify in those particular states). The fact of the matter is, even if it doesn't get through, it starts a major movement toward getting it done. The current Democratic approach of sitting idly by while the GOP strips away one protection after another is not feasible at all, especially when 85% of the population and 44 out of 50 states hold the majority view on abortion. It's astonishing how many people want the Democrats to not take any significant action. It's like their reasoning is, "If I can't have everything I want, then I'm completely throwing in the towel on abortion."

But those majorities do not vote for actual representatives that represent that particular view when it comes to abortion. That's the problem.

 

[roguenuke]

You're looking at it too singularly. It matters if it's made into a central issue through actions like this, because politicians don't keep their jobs if people don't reelect them, and people don't reelect politicians if they blatantly go against the will of the majority of voters on the biggest hot-button political issue of the past few generations.

You may wish that they didn't keep their jobs because of that position, but it isn't the case. People do elect politicians that go against what they want on a single issue all the time because they may hold several other issues higher than this one that the politician actually has been voting the same as they would on and in the voting booth, they may get a say when it comes to primaries (most don't bother to vote in those) but in general elections most don't vote on single issues.

All those Senators knew that ACB and Kavanaugh at least were very likely to overturn Roe, because of their religious/conservative/states' rights beliefs, not because of any other reason. Yet those Senators still voted to confirm them even knowing that, knowing that the vast majority of people didn't want that ruling overturned.