What causes insomnia?

[Superfly]

Lately, have been suffering from a bad case of insomnia. Am very tired, yet can't sleep.

From my experience, insomnia is torture - think, uh, "electric chair" or something of that nature.

Could pop a couple of Ativan to help, but have been doing that a lot lately and won't do that tonight (Ativan is heavily addictive and a controlled substance). Even my doctor says be careful there.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever suffered insomnia and what they did to overcome it?

Thanks.

I am also a very experienced insomniac. You'll see me on here sometimes 3, 4 in the morning, when I have to get up at 630 with my girls. Up until a few years ago, I was the exact opposite. I could lay down, and within 5 minutes, I'd be out. Now, fuggedabout it.

I normally take 3mg of Melatonin and it helps. However, as someone who also has severe panic disorder, I've been coupling the melatonin with 5mg of Valium, because of recent anxiety attacks.

Try the melatonin, and look into a higher dosage (check with the pharmacist, but I've been told you can buy it over the counter as high as 10mg).

Also, and this is weird, but this also helps me sleep. Go into your bedroom, turn off the lights and turn on the TV. Turn the volume completely off, all the way down to zero. Then turn on the closed-captioning. Find a program that interests you, and read the closed-captioning. Works really well because it works along the same principle as reading yourself to sleep. The good thing about it is you are already tucked warmly into bed, with the lights off, and you just drift off to sleep.

Good luck. Insomnia sucks. It affects so much of your life that you don't realize. You are exhausted during the day because you didn't get good enough sleep the night before. Your physical and mental health are both affected. Go online and look at what happens if you get only 6 hours of sleep. Scary, because I'm lucky if I get 4.

 

[humbolt]

Work like hell. Physical work. Get a job as a logger. You'll sleep.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

I am also a very experienced insomniac. You'll see me on here sometimes 3, 4 in the morning, when I have to get up at 630 with my girls. Up until a few years ago, I was the exact opposite. I could lay down, and within 5 minutes, I'd be out. Now, fuggedabout it.

I normally take 3mg of Melatonin and it helps. However, as someone who also has severe panic disorder, I've been coupling the melatonin with 5mg of Valium, because of recent anxiety attacks.

Try the melatonin, and look into a higher dosage (check with the pharmacist, but I've been told you can buy it over the counter as high as 10mg).

Also, and this is weird, but this also helps me sleep. Go into your bedroom, turn off the lights and turn on the TV. Turn the volume completely off, all the way down to zero. Then turn on the closed-captioning. Find a program that interests you, and read the closed-captioning. Works really well because it works along the same principle as reading yourself to sleep. The good thing about it is you are already tucked warmly into bed, with the lights off, and you just drift off to sleep.

Good luck. Insomnia sucks. It affects so much of your life that you don't realize. You are exhausted during the day because you didn't get good enough sleep the night before. Your physical and mental health are both affected. Go online and look at what happens if you get only 6 hours of sleep. Scary, because I'm lucky if I get 4.

Thanks, Superfly. Can relate to your story in a lot of ways. Am seeing my doctor tomorrow morning - will talk to him seriously about my insomnia and also about seroquel (which I've been on before) and melatonin. Knowing my doctor (whom wants me minimally medicated, if you know what I mean), he's more likely to go for the melatonin. I also like your television idea - think I'll try that tonight (if I have insomnia, which I probably will, lol). Thanks for that.

Yes, insomnia is torture - like I told another poster, my record for not sleeping at all is a little over two weeks (believe it or not). Doc had me pumped up on everything during those two weeks - seroquel, zyprexa, ambien, ativan, Chinese herbs, risperdal, and several other sleep aids that I've forgotten about. Nothing worked.

When I sleep well, I can run with just about any poster here. When I don't sleep, even all the newbies overshadow me. Try not sleeping for a week or two, then posting on this forum. I guarantee anyone whom tries that will sound like a two year old (at best).

Thanks again Superfly (and everyone else who responded in this thread) - so good to see that I'm not alone in this.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Work like hell. Physical work. Get a job as a logger. You'll sleep.

I actually like that idea. I know a guy in town (former logger) whom wants to hire me as a physical laborer. Think I just might talk to that gentleman.

 

[humbolt]

I actually like that idea. I know a guy in town (former logger) whom wants to hire me as a physical laborer. Think I just might talk to that gentleman.

It's some of the hardest work you'll ever do. One of the side rewards is that you'll be so fatigued at the end of each day that sleep isn't a problem.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

It's some of the hardest work you'll ever do. One of the side rewards is that you'll be so fatigued at the end of each day that sleep isn't a problem.

Sounds great.

I talked to him this morning, just so you know. Talk went well and my future employment is in the works.

Thanks again, humbolt!

 

[humbolt]

Sounds great.

I talked to him this morning, just so you know. Talk went well and my future employment is in the works.

Thanks again, humbolt!

Good luck. I failed to mention that such work is also extremely dangerous. Chain saws are inherently dangerous, and falling trees are best avoided, too. When cutting down a tree, it's best to remember that no matter how skilled and experienced you may be, trees will not necessarily fall the way you think they will. Always have an escape route.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

By the way, I'm going to friend everybody whom responded in this thread - so be expecting requests.

As a "hard core" insomnia sufferer, I feel for everyone whom lives in that hell. Who knows? Maybe we can help each other - you guys can at least feel free to send me a pm anytime. I may not have all the answers, but I will lend a listening and very understanding ear - sometimes, that's all it takes.

 

[soot]

I definitely want to stay away from the drugs at this point - none of them work, for sleep anyway (for me personally). I'm going to take your advice and go to the YMCA, starting tomorrow (am a member, just haven't been going). Have already cut back on stimulants such as nicotine and caffeine.

Don't drink and will cut back on carbs and get a better diet plan in place (haven't been going to weight watcher's either, though have been a member since Sep. of last year).

Thanks, soot!

Right on.

I'll just add this; I find that, for me, and despite the recent science to the contrary, working out at night is similar to doing a triple shot of espresso before bed.

If I do either I can expect to be up at 3:00 a.m. laying in bed staring at the ceiling.

For a long time the "conventional wisdom" was that working out in the evening was bad for your sleep because exercise has stimulant effects similar to caffeine and also works to depress sleep-related brain chemicals.

Recent studies have shown (it would seem) that while exercise does have stimulant effects they aren't the same as caffeine and shouldn't interfere with normal sleep.

That may be true for other people but for me, through trial and error, and perhaps for reasons that weren't taken in to consideration during the studies, it isn't true at all.

So I'd recommend that if it's your plan to try working out at night or later in the day you do so knowing that it shouldn't pose a sleep-related problem.

But, if you find that your insomnia isn't getting any better, or that it's worsening once you start exercising, consider moving your workouts to the morning and see how that goes.

I find that getting up at 4:30 a.m. has the added benefits of getting me going early and making my day long. That way, when I decide to hit the sheets at 10:00 or 10:30, I've already been awake for 18 hours and am much more likely to crash quickly.

So, yeah. I usually only get six or six and a half hours of sleep a night, but back when insomnia was an issue for me I was only getting two or two and a half hours many nights, and that was after just passing out from sheer exhaustion at 4:30 in the morning and then having to get up at 6:30 for work.

Anyhow, the bottom line I guess it to play with it and see what (if any of it) helps you.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Right on.

I'll just add this; I find that, for me, and despite the recent science to the contrary, working out at night is similar to doing a triple shot of espresso before bed.

If I do either I can expect to be up at 3:00 a.m. laying in bed staring at the ceiling.

For a long time the "conventional wisdom" was that working out in the evening was bad for your sleep because exercise has stimulant effects similar to caffeine and also works to depress sleep-related brain chemicals.

Recent studies have shown (it would seem) that while exercise does have stimulant effects they aren't the same as caffeine and shouldn't interfere with normal sleep.

That may be true for other people but for me, through trial and error, and perhaps for reasons that weren't taken in to consideration during the studies, it isn't true at all.

So I'd recommend that if it's your plan to try working out at night or later in the day you do so knowing that it shouldn't pose a sleep-related problem.

But, if you find that your insomnia isn't getting any better, or that it's worsening once you start exercising, consider moving your workouts to the morning and see how that goes.

I find that getting up at 4:30 a.m. has the added benefits of getting me going early and making my day long. That way, when I decide to hit the sheets at 10:00 or 10:30, I've already been awake for 18 hours and am much more likely to crash quickly.

So, yeah. I usually only get six or six and a half hours of sleep a night, but back when insomnia was an issue for me I was only getting two or two and a half hours many nights, and that was after just passing out from sheer exhaustion at 4:30 in the morning and then having to get up at 6:30 for work.

Anyhow, the bottom line I guess it to play with it and see what (if any of it) helps you.

Thanks, my friend.

I like your suggestion about working out in the morning - I'm a very early riser (have been up since 3am this morning) and I do indeed find that working out at night has a stimulating effect on my body. I will try working out early in the morning at the local Y beginning tomorrow - they open like at 5am and I intend to be there. Will keep you posted via this thread on how that works.

On a side note, I saw my doctor today - he cut my Abilify by 33% (15mg down to 10mg), when I explained the "situation" I've been in lately dealing with insomnia. Abilify has an effect on me that really pumps me up - I plan to start taking the new 10mg dose at 3am (right after I get out of bed) - via his orders - so it wears off by the time I hit the sheets at 10pm or so. Will also use this thread to let you know how that goes. A year ago, I was (believe it or not) on 30mg of Abilify and couldn't sleep at all, so overall it's been cut by almost 70%. Works for me. The only other psychiatric med I take daily is Cymbalta (60mg) - doc plans to cut that by 50%, once he and I have dealt with the Abilify problem.

Sounds like you and I are a lot alike in our patterns of getting up early, burning the energy off early in the morning in the gym, staying up 18 hours or so, then hitting the sheets at 10. At least, that's where I want to be - I'm not there yet (like you are), mind you. But you live the kind of lifestyle that I long for myself, so I'm glad you posted in this thread. You know what they say (my Grandfather's favorite saying - he was in the Army in WWII): Early to bed and early to rise keeps one healthy, wealthy and wise - not that everyone whom gets up early and goes to bed early end up healthy, wealthy and wise (and more importantly, avoid the problem of insomnia). It's what we do with our day that counts, I think - and that involves the choices we make.

To sum it up, basically I want to be just like you - so tomorrow, I'm putting the "soot" plan into full effect.

Thanks again!

 

[Porchev]

Use the Ambien, Luke...

Lately, have been suffering from a bad case of insomnia. Am very tired, yet can't sleep.

From my experience, insomnia is torture - think, uh, "electric chair" or something of that nature.

Could pop a couple of Ativan to help, but have been doing that a lot lately and won't do that tonight (Ativan is heavily addictive and a controlled substance). Even my doctor says be careful there.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever suffered insomnia and what they did to overcome it?

Thanks.

 

[it's just me]

Lately, have been suffering from a bad case of insomnia. Am very tired, yet can't sleep.

From my experience, insomnia is torture - think, uh, "electric chair" or something of that nature.

Could pop a couple of Ativan to help, but have been doing that a lot lately and won't do that tonight (Ativan is heavily addictive and a controlled substance). Even my doctor says be careful there.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever suffered insomnia and what they did to overcome it?

Thanks.

Roll with it. I have stopped trying to fight it. Sleep when you want to and wake when you want to. Sometimes I go to bed at 7 pm and wake at 2 am. This doesn't exactly make me a social butterfly but I get enough sleep most nights.

 

[soot]

Thanks again!

Good luck with it.

And good luck with the medication reduction. Not being a doctor, and not having any personal experience with it, I can't offer an opinion or any suggestions on that stuff. But it's good to see that you're working with a doctor on it and cutting down the right way. I've seen friends "take matters into their own hands" where it comes to psychotropic medications and rarely was the outcome successful.

How did this morning go?

As luck would have it I'm fighting a stomach bug so I slept in this morning (and am working from home today).

 

[AJiveMan]

Roll with it. I have stopped trying to fight it. Sleep when you want to and wake when you want to. Sometimes I go to bed at 7 pm and wake at 2 am. This doesn't exactly make me a social butterfly but I get enough sleep most nights.

Me too. But, I know why, the VA has some darn good doctors. I'd started out thinking VA doctors were pill pushers, but when experienced doctors talk to you about changing the things you do daily, it helps.

My new neighbors are night owls, they work second shift, come home at 1:15 a.m., and stay up til about 5:00 a.m., then the hit the sack. I never was a night owl, after spending 3 years in Alaska, where you don't know whether it's daytime or nighttime, and work 12 hour shifts, everything is blurred pertaining to the clock on the wall. Daylight @ 3:00 a.m., you ask yourself after waking from the sack, is it 3 in the afternoon, or is it 3 in the morning.

Me thinks that if one wishes to sleep at night, be active, do stuff to tire yourself out so you'll be able to sleep. That sometimes works for me. Sometimes I can get by on 5 hours of sleep. What's your minimum before you throw in the towel?

 

[it's just me]

Me too. But, I know why, the VA has some darn good doctors. I'd started out thinking VA doctors were pill pushers, but when experienced doctors talk to you about changing the things you do daily, it helps.

My new neighbors are night owls, they work second shift, come home at 1:15 a.m., and stay up til about 5:00 a.m., then the hit the sack. I never was a night owl, after spending 3 years in Alaska, where you don't know whether it's daytime or nighttime, and work 12 hour shifts, everything is blurred pertaining to the clock on the wall. Daylight @ 3:00 a.m., you ask yourself after waking from the sack, is it 3 in the afternoon, or is it 3 in the morning.

Me thinks that if one wishes to sleep at night, be active, do stuff to tire yourself out so you'll be able to sleep. That sometimes works for me. Sometimes I can get by on 5 hours of sleep. What's your minimum before you throw in the towel?

I can function okay on five hours but if I just let my body default to it's own clock as I described I will get 6-7 hours.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Good luck with it.

And good luck with the medication reduction. Not being a doctor, and not having any personal experience with it, I can't offer an opinion or any suggestions on that stuff. But it's good to see that you're working with a doctor on it and cutting down the right way. I've seen friends "take matters into their own hands" where it comes to psychotropic medications and rarely was the outcome successful.

How did this morning go?

As luck would have it I'm fighting a stomach bug so I slept in this morning (and am working from home today).

Thanks, soot. Coming off psychotropic medication can indeed be very tricky, from my experience - which is why the 11th commandment is (or rather, should be) "never stop your meds without your doctor's assistance." I took matters into my own hands once by stopping my meds - went to a bank, taking $100 out of a teller machine. Problem? Someone had left their card in the machine and I took it, thinking it was my "salary from the CIA." I even waved into the bank's security camera, if I recall correctly. I then proceeded to drive to a friend of mine's farm in Florida, to pay him a visit, thinking he was the CIA chief and I was the President of the US. I drove about 100mph down GA I-75, completely oblivious to what was going on around me. I had the music cranked up in the CD player - I was in my own little world. I happened to gaze at one point into the rear view mirror. State troopers were following me with their lights on. I continued to drive even faster, thinking they were the secret service and were assigned to protect me - the president.

To make a long story short, I wound up in a state hospital. NOT good. From there, I was transferred to a private facility for two weeks (didn't sleep at at throughout this mess). From THERE, I wound up at Skyland Trail in Atlanta (an outpatient center for mentally ill clients) for two years. All charges against me were dropped and my records expunged, but I do NOT want to repeat that little episode, thank you very much.

Now, I was very young at the time of all this and still have flashbacks from time to time - PTSD. Having said that, I've recovered fully. Am real close to getting off my meds once and for all. Miracles do happen, I guess.

I did not work out this morning, though will try again tomorrow. I slept in today (got about 12 hours of sleep last night, believe it or not); probably slept well last night as a result of being on less Abilify. Works for me.

Sorry to hear about your stomach bug and hope you feel better. There's a lot of illnesses going on out there right now - my 8 year old niece is recovering from strep throat. Will say a prayer for you - get well soon, you hear?

Anyway, I think the "soot" plan will work. I know what I need to do. I just have to do it.

Thanks again.

 

[JumpinJack]

Lately, have been suffering from a bad case of insomnia. Am very tired, yet can't sleep.

From my experience, insomnia is torture - think, uh, "electric chair" or something of that nature.

Could pop a couple of Ativan to help, but have been doing that a lot lately and won't do that tonight (Ativan is heavily addictive and a controlled substance). Even my doctor says be careful there.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever suffered insomnia and what they did to overcome it?

Thanks.

I don't have insomnia regularly, but have had it on occasion. Usually it has been because my brain was rushing fast on something....a trauma was going on, or details related to work.

The big life-trauma insomnia I had several yrs ago wouldn't stop, so the dr. gave me something. Not tranquilizers. He gave me something that he said would make the brain quit rushing and talking, so I can fall asleep naturally. It worked.

For non-trauma insomnia, I use:

Skim milk mixed with a shot of liqueur (creme de'menthe is my poison of choice). That's a low cal version of a grasshopper. The milk has melatonin, a natural relaxer, and a bit of alcohol helps me sleep sometimes. This works for me for mild insomnia.

I tried the new Nyquil OTC liquid med called ZZZZZZZZ. It works like a charm. I'm asleep in no time. And I take just half of one of the caps, not the whole dose. Just to make sure I can wake up okay.

I have used on occasion the real Nyquil that you have to get from the pharmacist. It contains a tiny bit of alcohol and other medications that make you drowsy. It works pretty well (but not as well as ZZZZZ).

Exercise. It's too late to start exercising after insomnia has hit. But if you exercise and get tired from physical activity during the day, it's been my experience that the body will just fall asleep because it's tired. I come from a long line of farmers. I never heard one of 'em complain that he couldn't get to sleep. When you're dog tired from physical activity, you crash at night. It's also been my observation that people who have told me they have insomnia problems are people who do not exercise. They may have busy days, but not real physical activity where they work out aerobically or their muscles.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Am sleeping (very) well these days - not worried about anything. A lot of credit goes to the folks whom responded in this thread - Happy Day, everyone!

The 10mg of Abilify (down from 15mg) is also working very well - I'm not NEARLY as pumped up and stimulated.

I've cut down on coffee (only 1 large cup a day for me nowadays, that is), nicorette gum (4-6 pieces nowadays) and sugar.

Will keep everyone posted, but I'm very optimistic about my insomnia - I think I'm "over the hump" and the worst is behind me.

Thanks to all whom responded in this thread - Happy Day!

 

[lizzie]

I have had a terrible history with insomnia, off and on for years, since my late 30's, and when it's really bad, it's from imbalances in my stress hormones, so for awhile, I was taking a supplement to try and correct that. It did help after a few weeks, and now, although I don't get a HUGE amount of sleep, I do sleep some every night. Often, I will awaken about every hour, but am able to fall back to sleep within a couple of minutes.