What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex/Hedonism?[W:165]

[Northern Light]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Part of the confusion is that you're conflating social terms with political ones. They are not necessarily interchangeable. If you want to talk social politics then we should stick with that -- just a suggestion.

Reference to "the Left," as a generalized whole, is appropriate.

Okay, ideologically... I can concede to that. In the general diaspora of social leftism, Hedonism is included, and thus can be found there, BUT there are so many exceptions to this that it undermines what you're saying. Behaviorally, there is no real distinction between leftists and rightists. Both are engaged in the same behaviors. One pretends they aren't while the other openly admits it.

The right often calls out the left for being obvious, but the right is not aware of its own cognitive dissonance. Again, I am speaking to social platforms, not individuals.

"Hedonism" is a far more broad term. It applies to many aspects of one's life, not just sex.

But see, here's the thing... Hedonism is incredibly specific, which is why I object to your broad use of it. I would argue that practicing Hedonists are on the far left of the spectrum, and rare; though, if you talk to most Hedonists, they don't associate with left or right, they associate with whatever lets them get what they want. Thus you find Hedonists among both right and left camps.

During the Spanish Inquisition, many of the far-right Inquisitors were also Hedonists. They reveled in causing pain because it brought them pleasure. During the Edwardian period, many of the right-wing aristocratic nobles were Hedonists... they shaped social mores in order to support their lordships, while living extremely lavish and self-indulgent lifestyles.

It's not black and white.

I would, actually, view that as being a form of "sexual hedonism."

It's not. You are using the term "Hedonism" too flippantly. Please research Hedonism as a stand-alone topic and you'll understand your misattribution.

They are close enough, overlap enough, and all enjoy more than enough support from the generalized "Cultural Left," to merit grouping them together for the purposes of this discussion.

Nope. You can't say that sexual liberals are all Hedonists. Hedonism is its own camp. Again, please research.

Are you completely unfamiliar with the cultural upheaval of the 1960s and the rise of the "New Left?"

Again... Have you just not been paying attention, or what?

Huh?

Can you please identify parts of my argument you find unconvincing, rather than use an ad hom?

Our culture is the literally the most "polarized" it has ever been right now.

I agree... but there are no legal institutions impeding the co-existence of these values. There are, on paper, equal. Most people live in the moderate zone. Hyperpartisanism makes it seem otherwise.

Besides which, I might remind you again that the point of this thread isn't to discuss the merits of the Left's ideology (I've beaten that horse beyond death already). It's to discuss the origins of that ideology.

You can't just claim that Hedonism is part of a leftist movement and not have that questioned. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Looking into the origins of "said ideology" assumes that your premise is correct to start with, and it isn't.

In order to address the origins of Hedonism, we need to detangle your misuse of various terminologies. Foremost, we need to question your underlying assertion that sexual liberation and instant gratification culture = leftism = Hedonism. I can't just delve into your premise without pointing out the flaws and cognitive dissonance in your opinions because what you're saying is patently inaccurate, even academically.

You basically seem to want to just flat out deny that ideology exists at all as an entity separate and distinct from anything else. That frankly strikes me as being more than a bit dishonest and nonsensical.

That's not true. I am questioning how you identify said ideologies, their roots, and their manifestations in human behavior.

For example... it's common for people on the right to call out sexual liberation as Hedonism and therefore leftist, but they reject critical analysis of their use of these terms. Why? I don't think you fully understand what Hedonism is, and how Hedonists are a distinct sub-group.

Regardless if it's a right or left thing, you haven't explained why Hedonism is corrosive to society. You claim there is a culture war yet you aren't accurately identifying its components and aggravating factors. Basically I just don't know what you're talking about other than the usual "blame the left" non-sense.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Again, what we're talking about here is the mindset, and the ideology, more than anything else.

No one's saying Conservatives don't misbehave. I'm saying that the Left is somewhat unique in that they try to play it off as not only being "not a big deal," but actually a "virtue," of sorts, which others should seek to emulate.

Ya, I get that.

Like how?

The pride brand was made by people on the street who wanted to raise Hell, not anything organized.

Slut walks we done by university students who wanted to raise hell, over the objections of the full grown feminists leaders.

Young women getting themselves blotto on alcohol was not ever promoted, it is only after young women insisting that they were going to do it regardless that the feminists rolled out their tripe "getting drunk is not a crime, rape is".

What are you talking about?

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Ya, I get that.

Like how?

The pride brand was made by people on the street who wanted to raise Hell, not anything organized.

Slut walks we done by university students who wanted to raise hell, over the objections of the full grown feminists leaders.

Young women getting themselves blotto on alcohol was not ever promoted, it is only after young women insisting that they were going to do it regardless that the feminists rolled out their tripe "getting drunk is not a crime, rape is".

What are you talking about?

I don't know what to tell you, dude. It seems self-evident from where I'm standing. :shrug:

When all of these "freaky" sorts on the Left talk about how amazing it is to be non-monogamous, promiscuous, or what have you... And how everyone else is just a bunch of stupid prudes who need to get over themselves and join in "on the fun" (which is pretty damn often, all things considered), I view that as them promoting the previous set of behaviors as being "virtues."

Again, the Left basically invented the entire movement centered around those kinds of attitudes. That's really not deniable.

 

[devildavid]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

It's probably the advent of birth control pills and other methods of contraceptives combined with easy access to, and lack of stigmatizing, safe (for the mother anyways) abortions.

When you remove many of the natural consequences then it's going to result in a significant shift in dynamics.

That has a lot more to do with it than the notion that the left is promoting it as a virtue. Birth control gave women the freedom men had always enjoyed to get away with being promiscuous without consequences. Men still want to cling to the old double standard so they lash out at the left, or the entertainment industry, or nihilistic atheists (that's a good one) because they miss the sexual control they once had over women. They try to frame it as a moral issue but it is a power issue. They no longer can separate women into sluts and good girls and they can't accept that women can now be sexually active without having a negative label attached to them.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

It's probably the advent of birth control pills and other methods of contraceptives combined with easy access to, and lack of stigmatizing, safe (for the mother anyways) abortions.

When you remove many of the natural consequences then it's going to result in a significant shift in dynamics.

That has a lot more to do with it than the notion that the left is promoting it as a virtue. Birth control gave women the freedom men had always enjoyed to get away with being promiscuous without consequences. Men still want to cling to the old double standard so they lash out at the left, or the entertainment industry, or nihilistic atheists (that's a good one) because they miss the sexual control they once had over women. They try to frame it as a moral issue but it is a power issue. They no longer can separate women into sluts and good girls and they can't accept that women can now be sexually active without having a negative label attached to them.

Plenty of people use birth control who do not subscribe to the attitudes described in the OP. Frankly, the Left's "free love" movement kind of came about too early in Birth Control's reign, and involved too many things which have nothing to do with Birth Control (like gay rights, for example), for Birth Control to be the primary culprit behind starting all this.

BC certainly changed things. Don't get me wrong. However, what the OP describes is something of a separate issue. The Left is not Libertine just because they can avoid pregnancy. They're Libertine simply because they're Libertine. BC simply happens to make it a lot easier of a sell.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

I don't know what to tell you, dude. It seems self-evident from where I'm standing. :shrug:

When all of these "freaky" sorts on the Left talk about how amazing it is to be non-monogamous, promiscuous, or what have you... And how everyone else is just a bunch of stupid prudes who need to get over themselves and join in "on the fun" (which is pretty damn often, all things considered), I view that as them promoting the previous set of behaviors as being "virtues."

Again, the Left basically invented the entire movement centered around those kinds of attitudes. That's really not deniable.

If you went bigger you would have me, The sexual revolution was from the left. Moral relativity was from the left. "Truth does not exist" is from the Left.

But when it comes to enjoyment of the sins of the flesh I see little difference.

Is this all about press releases with you, not reality?

Ya, Me thinks this is where we went bad.

They're all clearly full of ****.

Take what is, no BS.

That's my advice.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

But see, here's the thing... Hedonism is incredibly specific

You are using the term "Hedonism" too flippantly.

Ummm... How do you figure?

he·don·ism
ˈhēdəˌnizəm,ˈhedənˌizəm/
noun

the pursuit of pleasure; sensual self-indulgence.
synonyms: self-indulgence, pleasure-seeking, self-gratification, lotus-eating, sybaritism; More

the ethical theory that pleasure (in the sense of the satisfaction of desires) is the highest good and proper aim of human life.​

Like it or not, the fact of the matter is that a rather sizeable of the modern Cultural Left does seem to basically have this as their personal philosophy. On this forum alone, I've heard countless Left-leaning posters express these kinds of sentiments. Several of them have posted in this very thread (like Beef, for example).

That might not necessary be all they care about, but it is certainly a major part of how they approach life in general, and their perceived role within it. They are, in large part, "hedonists," and most prominently with regard to issues which tend to be Left Wing "sacred cows," like "sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll."

You can't say that sexual liberals are all Hedonists

No one said "all," first off. I simply said that it was a major element of the ideology, in its modern form.

However, I would point out that, as "sexual liberalism" tends to focus heavily around the idea that self-indulgence and pleasure seeking should trump most, or all, other concerns, the concept can be described as being, in many regards, "hedonistic" by definition.

Can you please identify parts of my argument you find unconvincing, rather than use an ad hom?

I'm sorry, but you should already be well aware what institutions and belief systems the radicals of the 1960s were trying to overthrow. They are pretty much the same institutions and belief systems that present radicals are still trying to overthrow (Nationalism, Capitalism, religion, marriage, the family, gender roles, sexual inhibitions, sexual orientation, role of government, and etca, etca).

there are no legal institutions impeding the co-existence of these values.

What does that have to do with anything?

There are, on paper, equal. Most people live in the moderate zone.

Objectively, the views of the Left and Right as a whole in this country are farther apart now than they've ever been, possibly to the point of being fundamentally incompatible. The conflict that creates is near constant, and hyper-active.

If that's not a "culture war," I - quite frankly - don't know what is.

You can't just claim that Hedonism is part of a leftist movement and not have that questioned. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Looking into the origins of "said ideology" assumes that your premise is correct to start with, and it isn't.

In order to address the origins of Hedonism, we need to detangle your misuse of various terminologies. Foremost, we need to question your underlying assertion that sexual liberation and instant gratification culture = leftism = Hedonism. I can't just delve into your premise without pointing out the flaws and cognitive dissonance in your opinions because what you're saying is patently inaccurate, even academically.

...

For example... it's common for people on the right to call out sexual liberation as Hedonism and therefore leftist, but they reject critical analysis of their use of these terms. Why? I don't think you fully understand what Hedonism is, and how Hedonists are a distinct sub-group.

Well... Again, we're already established that the Cultural Left was primarily responsible for establishing the "sexual liberation" culture in the West, and continues to be its champion in the public arena even today. The same is arguably true of the "instant gratification" culture, depending on which aspect of it you are referencing (drugs, for example, are pretty squarely in the Left's domain). Both of those things are, in fact, incredibly hedonistic, in that they place focus on pleasure and self-indulgence ahead of everything else.

Sooo... What's the big problem with correlating the Cultural Left with both Sexual Liberation ideologies and Hedonistic impulses then? I'm not getting this.

Regardless if it's a right or left thing, you haven't explained why Hedonism is corrosive to society.

Because, as I've stated, that's not the point of the thread.

You claim there is a culture war yet you aren't accurately identifying its components and aggravating factors.

Nationalism, Capitalism, religion, marriage, the family, gender roles, sexual inhibitions, sexual orientation, role of government, and etca, etca...

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

If you went bigger you would have me, The sexual revolution was from the left. Moral relativity was from the left. "Truth does not exist" is from the Left.

But when it comes to enjoyment of the sins of the flesh I see little difference.

Is this all about press releases with you, not reality?

Ya, Me thinks this is where we went bad.

They're all full clearly of ****.

Take what is, no BS.

That's my advice.

Again, I'm not sure what to tell you, dude. :shrug:

Look at it this way.

When was the last time you saw a public figure on the Right promote sexual promiscuity, non-monogamy, or recreational drug usage? Excepting maybe Ted Nugget, or something - who still wouldn't be doing it 'ideologically' - the answer is basically never. You certainly wouldn't see anyone important on the Right talking about how people who don't support those kinds of things just need to "evolve," or "lose their inhibitions." That's simply not the way the Right thinks.

Now... When was the last time you saw something like that from a public figure on the Left? The answer is all the freaking time. They basically can't shut up about it, because it is such a central element of their ideological belief system.

Agree to disagree, I guess? :shrug:

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Plenty of people use birth control who do not subscribe to the attitudes described in the OP. Frankly, the Left's "free love" movement kind of came about too early in Birth Control's reign, and involved too many things which have nothing to do with Birth Control (like gay rights, for example), for Birth Control to be the primary culprit behind starting all this.

BC certainly changed things. Don't get me wrong. However, what the OP describes is something of a separate issue. The Left is not Libertine just because they can avoid pregnancy. They're Libertine simply because they're Libertine. BC simply happens to make it a lot easier of a sell.

The creators of "Safe Spaces" and fanatical promoters of the Nanny State are then in your opinion the great libertines of our time....

I am sorry to tell you sir, your assertion does not appear to compute.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

The creators of "Safe Spaces" and fanatical promoters of the Nanny State are then in your opinion the great libertines of our time....

I am sorry to tell you sir, your assertion does not appear to compute.

Dumbass self-entitled college kids will behave as dumbass self-entitled college kids are wont to do. :shrug:

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Again, I'm not sure what to tell you, dude. :shrug:

Look at it this way.

When was the last time you saw a public figure on the Right promote sexual promiscuity, non-monogamy, or recreational drug usage? Excepting maybe Ted Nugget, or something - who still wouldn't be doing it 'ideologically' - the answer is basically never. You certainly wouldn't see anyone important on the Right talking about how people who don't support those kinds of things just need to "evolve," or "lose their inhibitions." That's simply not the way the Right thinks.

Now... When was the last time you saw something like that from a public figure on the Left? The answer is all the freaking time. They basically can't shut up about it, because it is such a central element of their ideological belief system.

Agree to disagree, I guess? :shrug:

In the national conversation, in the arena of ideas, I never find those on the right advocating for temperance, except on a few sex/erotic issues, where they are roundly ignored and often ridiculed. . Maybe back home with friends they talk that way, but they never have the balls to come out and push that position with anyone who is not convinced already.

Is this a cult?

BTW: Did you ever noticed that the ones doing well these days are the Prosperity Ministries, for instance Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen?

Ya think maybe there is a reason?

 

[devildavid]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Plenty of people use birth control who do not subscribe to the attitudes described in the OP. Frankly, the Left's "free love" movement kind of came about too early in Birth Control's reign, and involved too many things which have nothing to do with Birth Control (like gay rights, for example), for Birth Control to be the primary culprit behind starting all this.

BC certainly changed things. Don't get me wrong. However, what the OP describes is something of a separate issue. The Left is not Libertine just because they can avoid pregnancy. They're Libertine simply because they're Libertine. BC simply happens to make it a lot easier of a sell.

Now you are making more claims with no evidence, which is the basis of your OP. One movie made by sex-obsessed people does not point to the left or any widely held philosophy of the left. Who are the "plenty of people" who use birth control purely to avoid pregnancy? These same people could refrain from sex. Since they don't, maybe they are hedonists as well, who pretend not to be.

 

[devildavid]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Again, I'm not sure what to tell you, dude. :shrug:

Look at it this way.

When was the last time you saw a public figure on the Right promote sexual promiscuity, non-monogamy, or recreational drug usage? Excepting maybe Ted Nugget, or something - who still wouldn't be doing it 'ideologically' - the answer is basically never. You certainly wouldn't see anyone important on the Right talking about how people who don't support those kinds of things just need to "evolve," or "lose their inhibitions." That's simply not the way the Right thinks.

Now... When was the last time you saw something like that from a public figure on the Left? The answer is all the freaking time. They basically can't shut up about it, because it is such a central element of their ideological belief system.

Agree to disagree, I guess? :shrug:

When was the last time you saw anyone promoting promiscuity? Give a few examples other than a dirty cartoon. Sex in the movies is not at all about the "left" promoting promiscuity.

 

[Fishking]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

That has a lot more to do with it than the notion that the left is promoting it as a virtue. Birth control gave women the freedom men had always enjoyed to get away with being promiscuous without consequences. Men still want to cling to the old double standard so they lash out at the left, or the entertainment industry, or nihilistic atheists (that's a good one) because they miss the sexual control they once had over women. They try to frame it as a moral issue but it is a power issue. They no longer can separate women into sluts and good girls and they can't accept that women can now be sexually active without having a negative label attached to them.

I don't see it that way. Men couldn't really get away with it on any practical level. Did some get away with it? Sure, but for most men this was part of a forcing mechanism that would then have him settle down and start a family. It's a misconception that men got to do whatever they wanted without facing consequences.

 

[beefheart]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Dumbass self-entitled college kids will behave as dumbass self-entitled college kids are wont to do. :shrug:

And you are envious of college kids too.

Seriously....just get laid already...

 

[Henrin]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

And you are envious of college kids too.

Seriously....just get laid already...

I like how people associate rejection of sleeping around with jealously and lack of a sex life. Did you guys ever figure that people just reject how you treat sex?

 

[Henrin]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

I also find it amazing people would deny that there is a cultural war going on in this country that is perpetrated by the left. How many times does someone need to be hit in the face with the signs of cultural war before they think, gosh, maybe there is a cultural war going on.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

I like how people associate rejection of sleeping around with jealously and lack of a sex life. Did you guys ever figure that people just reject how you treat sex?

I also love how he's - apparently - just allowed to bait, flame, troll and make personal attacks to his heart's content in any thread I start with absolutely no consequences.

If you or I were to behave like him, what do you want to bet we would be thread banned within two pages? :roll:

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

I also find it amazing people would deny that there is a cultural war going on in this country that is perpetrated by the left. How many times does someone need to be hit in the face with the signs of cultural war before they think, gosh, maybe there is a cultural war going on.

Oh, it's just the same old crap they always try and pull. They'll wax nostaligic over the values of the 1960s "free love" movement all day long, fawn over the supposedly "more evolved" sexual views of Europeans (which is actually kind of a myth, incidentally), and fight to the death to defend the value systems of things like the "hook up" or "slut" cultures, and everyone who promotes them. Hell! Some of them will even champion the cause of having straight up sex classes in schools, teaching not "safe sex" - mind you - but literally techniques for both facilitating and enjoying intercourse in every way imaginable.

However, try and point any of those facts out to them? All of the sudden, they fly into straight up denial mode!

i.e. "*indignant huffing* We don't do that! You're crazy! Point out exactly who does that!"

They'll do the same damn thing on a number of other subjects as well, like the latent anti-religiosity of their movement, or it's inclinations towards socialist thought. When in doubt, it should simply be expected that they will, almost reflexively, fall back on denial as a defense mechanism.

I still have yet to decide whether ideological Left Wingers are the most fundamentally dishonest people I've ever met, or simply the least self-aware. :roll:

 

[Fiddytree]

What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedo...

I haven't delved into this aspect too much. Some of that is I became less drawn to feminist or masculinity studies than other phenomenons, both of which tend to discuss human sexuality and forms and norms to a greater extent than most fields. Hence, I won't bother trying to ascertain the "roots" of the issue.

Nevertheless, my short reply (as I have been called), for now, is that I am remembering an argument Norman Podhoretz had with his one-time friend Allen Ginsburg. Ginsburg was all about experimentation and self-indulgence, because he found restraint to be oppressive and isolating of the human experience. Podhoretz, on the other hand, felt that restraint was needed and the pursuit of happiness through experimentation of the senses a false hope and, if not cautious, dangerous.

 

[CrabCake]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

The idea that sex, given freely, and paired with a generalized lack of "inhibition" on the part of the greater population concerning personal conduct, often going so far as to glorify and promote hedonistic extremes with regards to things like recreational drug usage, partying, lax social attitudes, and etca, etca, will somehow create a "better," or even possibly "utopian," society is pretty damn close to being universal in the thought and value systems of the modern ideological Left.

No. It isn't.

This premise is incorrect to begin with, rendering the rest of the question pointless.

Hell! I just saw the movie "Sausage Party," and it was basically a giant, thinly veiled, parable trying to push that very idea - i.e. "the Gods" (humans) are evil, and the belief systems and inhibitions foods have built around them are all a lie, so the food ultimately rebels and kills "the Gods" (again, humans) in order to free themselves from all of that, and they celebrate by having a giant pan-sexual food orgy, which makes everything right with the world.

This illustrates the problem with how you reach your conclusion. You saw something that promoted a certain attitude and, rather than recognizing it as being part of a specific subculture ( stoner/slacker culture), you ascribed its attitude and beliefs to liberalism.

Sure, it's comedy. At the same time, however, you can't tell me that the message being pushed there isn't very much indicative of how the person behind the writer's pen actually views the world at large, even outside of their work.

I haven't seen it and don't intend to, since I'm not a stoner or slacker. It's possible the writers do intend to put a message across. The mistake you make is in assuming that message is indicative of how liberals in general think rather than how those specific writers and/or the party/stoner/slacker subcultures they are writing for think.

I'm sorry... But the simple fact of the matter is that the whole thing seems like a Hell of a lot of innate ideological and psychological importance to place on the simple act of a couple of (mostly) hairless primates rubbing their meaty bits together for a couple of minutes in the interests of pair bonding and procreation. The narrative surrounding this is almost like a dogmatic "gospel," of sorts, accepted on the basis of faith more than anything else among the ranks of those who believe it.

Your attitude on this issue is in line with liberal attitudes. It actually sounds to me like your idea of sex as a "simple act of hairless primates rubbing their meaty bits together" is completely at odds with conservative ideology and perfectly in line with how liberals tend to view sex. If what you wrote there is actually your belief on this matter then, you are a liberal on this issue.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

No. It isn't.

This premise is incorrect to begin with, rendering the rest of the question pointless.

Oh God... Here we go again. :roll:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the Left basically created the "free love" movement, and "Sexual Revolution." They continue to be champions of such behavior even today.

As such, how in the Hell do you figure that promotion and behavior of such behavior and attitudes cannot be considered as being endemic to the ideology of the Modern Left? Seriously... I'm curious.

This is like the tenth time I've heard this argument in this thread. It doesn't make any more sense now than it did the first time.

You saw something that promoted a certain attitude and, rather than recognizing it as being part of a specific subculture ( stoner/slacker culture), you ascribed its attitude and beliefs to liberalism.

The Left created the "stoner/slacker" culture as well. :shrug:

Your attitude here is the opposite of what one encounters in conservative evangelical circles. It actually sounds to me like your idea of sex as a "simple act of hairless primates rubbing their meaty bits together" is completely at odds with conservative ideology. It sounds like you are a liberal on this issue and didn't even know it.

I'm simply pointing out the irony of an ideological group that supposedly prides itself on being "rational," and "scientific," while tossing aside "superstition," consistently getting all mushy, weak at the knees, and even quasi-"spiritual" over something so damn mundane as sexual intercourse.

 

[CrabCake]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Oh God... Here we go again. :roll:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but the Left basically created the "free love" movement, and "Sexual Revolution." They continue to be champions of such behavior even today.

You are wrong. That was a youth movement created by the hippie subculture. They attempted to take over the Democratic party in 1968 and failed. There were riots over this, how do you not know this?

How in the Hell do you figure that promotion of such behavior cannot be considered as being endemic to the ideology of the Modern Left? Seriously... I'm curious.

Because it simply isn't. If you can show otherwise, show it.

The Left created the "stoner/slacker" culture as well. :shrug:

Prove it.

I'm simply pointing out the irony of an ideological group that supposedly prides itself on being "rational," and "scientific," while tossing aside "superstition," getting all mushy, weak, and even quasi-"spiritual" over something so damn mundane.

Like I said, you are yourself a liberal on this issue. The very statement you just made is typical of liberal attitudes on sex. It's just something so mundane and meaningless...get over it! That's the liberal attitude. Conservatives are the ones who make a big deal of it, to the point of adding porn as a public health issue on their official platform.

If you feel it is mundane. You are a liberal on this issue.

 

[Gathomas88]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

You are wrong.

No, I'm not. You simply appear to be in denial. :lol:

That was a youth movement created by the hippie subculture. They attempted to take over the Democratic party in 1968 and failed. There were riots over this, how do you not know this?

And that "youth movement" subsequently grew up, and proceeded to both take over both the Democratic Party, and huge swaths of academia and the media. They have spent the last several decades basically doing nothing but glorifying themselves, and their supposed "Revolution," while pushing an agenda generally favorable to its social values (and that goes with regards to sex, drugs, and a great number of other things).

This honestly isn't even controversial, dude. It's fairly self-evident.

Because it simply isn't. If you can show otherwise, show it.

Annnnnd again... This makes no sense whatsoever.

Prove it.

Who popularized pot in the first place, genius? The Left or Right? :roll:

Who's still most in favor "legalizing it, man," even today? The Left, or Right?

Again, are you just in denial here, or what?

Like I said, you are yourself a liberal on this issue.

Again, no. I'm simply pointing out how the Left's thought processes on this matter seem to contradict themselves. They basically view sex as being both "mundane" and a "Holy Grail" which defines life, makes the world a better place, and which everyone should aspire towards at the same time. It's rather odd to say the least.

I haven't delved into my own views yet.

 

[CrabCake]

Re: What Are The Roots of The Modern Left's Obsession with Promoting Sex and Hedonism

Annnnnd again... This makes no sense whatsoever.

Simply repeating something doesn't make it so.

Who popularized pot in the first place, genius? The Left or Right? :roll:

Neither. It isn't a political issue. Republican kids smoke just as much pot in Mississippi as Democrat kids in California. In fact, kids in Alaska, a deeply red state, are more likely to smoke pot than kids in any other state in the union, statistically speaking.

Who's still most in favor "legalizing it, man," even today? The Left, or Right?

Libertarians on the right. Social liberals on the left.

Again, are you just in denial here, or what?

...or maybe you are.

Like I said, you are yourself a liberal on this issue.

You are a liberal on the issue of sex while accusing liberals of having views they don't have. It's simple. Liberals already have the same view on sex you do, but you're inventing a new view for them to have and then accusing them of being different; despite the fact they actually agree with you.