Well, separation of church and state was nice while it lasted

[nvflash]

Of course not. Your judgment was already demonstrated here, I was asking for her sake.

That you think a woman one day before her due date would have a doctor perform a c-section only to kill the baby is... well, yikes. It demonstrates a deep-seated disgust of women.

Here in the real world, that is not a scenario that exists. It takes a sick mind to imagine that it does.

Here you are making jackass personal commits that are out of line.

You don't know me, so spear my your dime store psychoanalysis, they are nothing more than thinly vailed personal insults because you can not argue my points.

Just flat lazy or stupid.

 

[Questerr]

The separation of Church and State is not the separation of God and State, no matter how atheist want that to be so.

AND, freedom of religion is not freedom FROM religion.

Religion does not mean CHURCH and it never did, it did not mean CHURCH when Jefferson coined the term Separation of Church and State, that actually appears nowhere in the US Constitution.

I believe in the Separation of Church and State as most Americans do, not the separation of religion and State. No Church can gain any advantage over any other, or "should" be able to under our Constitution, but we both know that has happed plenty in our past, just ask a mormon.

Because some Justice cited his belief in God in a legal ruling is not a Church, he is free to bring his religion with him wherever he goes if that is the bases of his morality so be it. The people of Alabama can seek to overturn this ruling as it only effect the laws of the state of Alabama, but you and I both know that isn't likely to happen.

Someone with standing could appeal this to the Federal court system as a violation of the US Constitution and see where that gets them, I'd be interested to find out.

Now all you have to do is demonstrate god actually exists. Can you do that?

 

[nvflash]

Now all you have to do is demonstrate god actually exists. Can you do that?

I don't have to do anything, when you want to know God, you'll have to ask him.

See there are people here who are not of God, they belong to that other. While he did not create them, he owns them just the same.

Not everyone will be saved, says so right in our book. To know God is to be saved, so don't rely on me to save you, I'm not that guy, that's bother Jesus, he is the King of that.

 

[Deuce]

Here you are making jackass personal commits that are out of line.

You don't know me, so spear my your dime store psychoanalysis, they are nothing more than thinly vailed personal insults because you can not argue my points.

Just flat lazy or stupid.

I am arguing your point: the scenario you made up is bullshit. That's not how abortions are performed, ever. Women don't just decide the day before birth that they don't want the baby and then have it killed. This isn't how women work. Try talking to one.

 

[j brown's body]

The separation of Church and State is not the separation of God and State, no matter how atheist want that to be so.

AND, freedom of religion is not freedom FROM religion.

Religion does not mean CHURCH and it never did, it did not mean CHURCH when Jefferson coined the term Separation of Church and State, that actually appears nowhere in the US Constitution.

I believe in the Separation of Church and State as most Americans do, not the separation of religion and State. No Church can gain any advantage over any other, or "should" be able to under our Constitution, but we both know that has happed plenty in our past, just ask a mormon.

Because some Justice cited his belief in God in a legal ruling is not a Church, he is free to bring his religion with him wherever he goes if that is the bases of his morality so be it. The people of Alabama can seek to overturn this ruling as it only effect the laws of the state of Alabama, but you and I both know that isn't likely to happen.

Someone with standing could appeal this to the Federal court system as a violation of the US Constitution and see where that gets them, I'd be interested to find out.

So the church itself, cannot pass religious laws (not that church could get elected to anything), but its members can, based on the teaching of that church?

Seems like a distinction without a difference.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Here you are making jackass personal commits that are out of line.

You don't know me, so spear my your dime store psychoanalysis, they are nothing more than thinly vailed personal insults because you can not argue my points.

Just flat lazy or stupid.

To be fair, you DID bring up the never seen before that wasnt prosecuted for murder scenario of a doctor whacking a baby fresh out of moms c-section scar over the head, so questioning it DOES kinds seem relevant.

Maybe that's just me though...

 

[Rexedgar]

The value of any being, any living thing, and even just thing, living or nonliving, is completely subjective and nothing to do with whether they are "human". We treat humans differently based on a lot of things, including location.

.Religion, pigment, social status, wealth to name a few others…..

 

[nvflash]

I am arguing your point: the scenario you made up is bullshit. That's not how abortions are performed, ever. Women don't just decide the day before birth that they don't want the baby and then have it killed. This isn't how women work. Try talking to one.

Are you not familiar with hyperbole?

Trump speaks only in hyperbole, that's why so many people are always lit at him, they are not familiar with it either.

It's an extreme exaggeration to drive home a point.

Anyway, if such things did not happen, I highly doubt there would be a law against it, or people in jail for breaking that law.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Anyway, no one thinks Trump is Christ, or at least no one that can think or read.

Not literally.....

Many Trump supporters believe God has chosen him to rule

The Economist tries to find out why

www.google.com

 

[nvflash]

To be fair, you DID bring up the never seen before that wasnt prosecuted for murder scenario of a doctor whacking a baby fresh out of moms c-section scar over the head, so questioning it DOES kinds seem relevant.

Maybe that's just me though...

It's relevant to what?

My personal relationships to woman?

That has nothing to do with any of this, and you and he do not know me, so again spare me your dime store BS. It was nothing but a thinly vailed personal insult because they lacked any counter argument to my points in this debate.

If you or anyone else what's to debate my relationship with women and insult me, just come by my house.

 

[Questerr]

I don't have to do anything, when you want to know God, you'll have to ask him.

See there are people here who are not of God, they belong to that other. While he did not create them, he owns them just the same.

Not everyone will be saved, says so right in our book. To know God is to be saved, so don't rely on me to save you, I'm not that guy, that's bother Jesus, he is the King of that.

If you want to hold that there is no separation between God and State, yes you need to demonstrate God actually exists. Otherwise this supposed “God” is just a figment of religious minds and Separation of Church and State still applies.

 

[Deuce]

Are you not familiar with hyperbole?

Trump speaks only in hyperbole, that's why so many people are always lit at him, they are not familiar with it either.

It's an extreme exaggeration to drive home a point.

Anyway, if such things did not happen, I highly doubt there would be a law against it, or people in jail for breaking that law.

It's an exaggeration but you think it actually happens. Sure. Goodbye.

 

[nvflash]

Not literally.....

Many Trump supporters believe God has chosen him to rule

The Economist tries to find out why

www.google.com

Many people believe a lot of things, hell some people believe there are 27 genders.

They are free to believe foolish things, everyone is, and even vote based on that. That's just democracy, foolish people voting on foolish things.

You never noticed the foolish outnumber the wise?

While the foolish outnumber the wise, it is up to the wise to outsmart the foolish.

So what does it say of the Democrats who can not outsmart Trump and his base? Or at least they did not in 2016, they seemed to in 2020, and it remains to be seen in 2024.

 

[nvflash]

It's an exaggeration but you think it actually happens. Sure. Goodbye.

No, things like that actually happen, thus the people in jail for them, as I already proved with a link to a news story about it.

 

[Lursa]

The idea that the unborn are humans isn’t new or based on the bible.

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What else would they be? They have Homo sapiens DNA, right?

And no where in that law do they recognize rights for an unborn human and there's an explicit section that says it does not apply to abortion...meaning the mother can still kill it. So...obviously no right to life.

Those laws are to increase penalties in recognition of the damages/loss to the mother/family. And the laws are similar to those where other people can be charged for killing someone else's pet or livestock, but the owners still can...dogs and cows dont get rights, do they?

 

[Lursa]

There does not seem to be a citation for this?

Seem liberals are running scared, but this is going to backfire big time.

Most of this nation actually identify as Christian, so making this about Christians is a fools play. The risk is run that the left pits itself as anti-Christians, and that will lose them a lot of votes.

Anyway, no one thinks Trump is Christ, or at least no one that can think or read.

It's Christian dogma that they're attempting to force on us. Not Jewish. What other major religions are represented large #s in America?

 

[bullseyelqcs]

No, things like that actually happen, thus the people in jail for them, as I already proved with a link to a news story about it.

That they are in jail for those acts disproves the need for taking this the next step further, doesn't it? Also, bear in mind, those people aren't in jail for violating the laws of some God, they are in jail for violating the only laws that government can enforce, which are those of personal rights. If you violate my personal right to live without cause, you forfeit your right to live potentially. That right, however, only exists if I am first here to exercise it.

This just seems like an attempt to further injection religion into the lives of those who would sooner eschew it.

 

[Lursa]

Homicide specifically addresses taking a human life.

Killing in self-defense is homicide, so is pulling the plug. Not all homicide is illegal.

Murder is a crime.

 

[Lursa]

So if I kill a one day old baby in his crib, that's murder right?

But if some doctor does a c section the day before and slaps the baby over the head with a club, that's a woman's right to chose?

If it's removed from the woman's body, it's born. So...illegal.

(b) used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion. link​

 

[nvflash]

It's Christian dogma that they're attempting to force on us. Not Jewish. What other major religions are represented large #s in America?

No, show me where he cited a specific passage from the New Testament?

 

[Crakhobarbie]

So what does it say of the Democrats who can not outsmart Trump and his base?

It's not a point of "outsmarting".
It's very simple, if the number of gullible halfwits voting for Donald exceeds the number of folks who dont, then Donald will win.

Personally, I've learned to never underestimate the number of gullible halfwits in America.

 

[ataraxia]

Show me were Jefferson, the Constitution, or the Supreme Court has ever said " The Separation of Religion and State"?

I'll wait.

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
-Thomas Jefferson

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries...Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects?"
-James Madison

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without a legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity."
-James Madison

"Mingling religion with politics may be disavowed and reprobated by every inhabitant of America….As an engine of power it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests; but so far as respects the good of man in general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
_Thomas Paine

"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion."
- John Adams

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"They [the Christian clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
-Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Sept. 23, 1800

 

[Lursa]

Philadelphia abortion doctor sentenced to three life terms in jail

Kermit Gosnell, 72, was convicted of first-degree murder in the deaths of three babies born alive at his rogue clinic

www.theguardian.com

Decades ago...and so now, new law...which you posted. Not sure you understand how this works.

 

[nvflash]

It's not a point of "outsmarting".
It's very simple, if the number of gullible halfwits voting for Donald exceeds the number of folks who dont, then Donald will win.

Personally, I've learned to never underestimate the number of gullible halfwits in America.

I said it was up to the wise to outsmart the foolish, not out vote them.

You'll never outvote the foolish in an open democracy where just about everyone gets to vote. You can get foolish people to vote for wise things, you just have to outsmart them.

Should be easy for the wise to outsmart the foolish, no?

 

[Lursa]

The separation of Church and State is not the separation of God and State, no matter how atheist want that to be so.

AND, freedom of religion is not freedom FROM religion.

Religion does not mean CHURCH and it never did, it did not mean CHURCH when Jefferson coined the term Separation of Church and State, that actually appears nowhere in the US Constitution.

I believe in the Separation of Church and State as most Americans do, not the separation of religion and State. No Church can gain any advantage over any other, or "should" be able to under our Constitution, but we both know that has happed plenty in our past, just ask a mormon.

Because some Justice cited his belief in God in a legal ruling is not a Church, he is free to bring his religion with him wherever he goes if that is the bases of his morality so be it. The people of Alabama can seek to overturn this ruling as it only effect the laws of the state of Alabama, but you and I both know that isn't likely to happen.

Someone with standing could appeal this to the Federal court system as a violation of the US Constitution and see where that gets them, I'd be interested to find out.

It means no one should force their religious beliefs on anyone else and also, nowhere are Christian religious beliefs being denied here. Each Christian is still able to practice their beliefs as they choose.

This applies 100% to abortion. (Rather than muddying the water with baking cakes)