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Well, separation of church and state was nice while it lasted

nvflash said:
After 2003 when it became a Federal crime to perform a "partial birth abortion" and right to choice people got all up in arms about Republicans in Congress denying a "Woman's right to choose( to kill her baby )"

The taking willful taking of an incident life is always murder, and life begins at conception, however I don't think it's always a crime punishable by man.

God is in charge of those grey areas, not me, and I'll leave any punishment to God.
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That's almost 100% your opinion 🤷

It's not reflected in federal law, that's for sure.
 
nvflash said:
I said it was up to the wise to outsmart the foolish, not out vote them.

You'll never outvote the foolish in an open democracy where just about everyone gets to vote. You can get foolish people to vote for wise things, you just have to outsmart them.

Should be easy for the wise to outsmart the foolish, no?
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See post 96
 
Lursa said:
Decades ago...and so now, new law...which you posted. Not sure you understand how this works.
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Not sure you do.

We are debating a new abortion law, or laws.

That new law put an end to doctors killing babies at a point in their lives, and so does this one.

But I really just want to haggle around the space in-between this and that to see how much we can chip away this time. Just like gun control, you don't go after the whole hog in one bite, you cut a piece off and eat that, then later, you come back for another piece.

Pretty soon you got the whole hog eaten.

The AL Supreme Court went full on whole hog, now they risk warning the hog he is being eaten.
 
nvflash said:
Not sure you do.

We are debating a new abortion law, or laws.

That new law put an end to doctors killing babies at a point in their lives, and so does this one.
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No, it didnt do that. It was about a specific procedure.

nvflash said:
But I really just want to haggle around the space in-between this and that to see how much we can chip away this time. Just like gun control, you don't go after the whole hog in one bite, you cut a piece off and eat that, then later, you come back for another piece.

Pretty soon you got the whole hog eaten.

The AL Supreme Court went full on whole hog, now they risk warning the hog he is being eaten.
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I certainly hope so.
 
nvflash said:
That's never been true here.

Freedom of religion is the free exercise and practice of your religious beliefs and you don't give up that freedom when you vote or sit in government.

Laws of man can be repealed, show me the law in the US that can not be repealed?

I'll wait.
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With regards to abortion, how are Christians unable to exercise their beliefs freely?
 
nvflash said:
God can change God's laws if he wants to.
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He can I guess, but he cant force them on anyone. Only someone who believes in him can try.
 
nvflash said:
So if I kill a one day old baby in his crib, that's murder right?

But if some doctor does a c section the day before and slaps the baby over the head with a club, that's a woman's right to chose?
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The criterion for life in an embryo is the same as the criterion for what it is in the hospital: brain activity.

If someone has no electrical activity in the brain in the hospital, they are no longer considered alive. Ventilator and other life support measure are withdrawn. It doesn't even matter if they have a heartbeat.

In an embryo, there is no electrical brain activity until at least after the 20th week of gestation. Before that, it's just a bunch of cells- no different than the skin cells you shed every day. In fact, you can get skin cells to differentiate into those embryonic cells without too much difficulty with the right culture plate media.
 
Lursa said:
With regards to abortion, how are Christians unable to exercise their beliefs freely?
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I mean faith without works is dead, we can't very well go about watching mothers kill their babies with the help of doctors without passing laws to try and stop it now can we?

How Christian would that make us?

Jesus healed the sick and blind, not killed them in the womb.
 
nvflash said:
If Jefferson hated religion why would he agree to freedom of religion?

Religion and church are not the same thing.
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Why would he not set up a system of govt to be free of it?

Centuries of history certainly showed you cant erase religion. He was an educated man.
 
Lursa said:
He can I guess, but he cant force them on anyone. Only someone who believes in him can try.
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Actually God forces his laws on you everyday, it's just he reserved judgment for later.
 
Lursa said:
Why would he not set up a system of govt to be free of it?

Centuries of history certainly showed you cant erase religion. He was an educated man.
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He was an educated man, not an atheist.
 
nvflash said:
I mean faith without works is dead, we can't very well go about watching mothers kill their babies with the help of doctors without passing laws to try and stop it now can we?

How Christian would that make us?

Jesus healed the sick and blind, not killed them in the womb.
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Nope...millions of people are not and do not want to be Christians and no laws (so far) demand we do or must submit to Christian beliefs.

And yet, each Christian woman can follow her abortion/reproductive beliefs as she chooses.
 
Lursa said:
Why would he not set up a system of govt to be free of it?

Centuries of history certainly showed you cant erase religion. He was an educated man.
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You can't force things on people. It has to grow organically. Forcing things often has the opposite effect. Anyone who has parented a child knows that. But there is good evidence he was hoping this country would eventually grow out of it.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding"
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
 
nvflash said:
I mean faith without works is dead, we can't very well go about watching mothers kill their babies with the help of doctors without passing laws to try and stop it now can we?

How Christian would that make us?

Jesus healed the sick and blind, not killed them in the womb.
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So Christians support making everything they see as a sin illegal, yes?
 
nvflash said:
Guess it can't be helped if the Democrats can't outsmart "halfwits".

Myself, I'm a witty guy, but that's half a nitwit.🤪
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Allow me to put this in simple terms for you.

Ya' can't fix stupid.

And there's absolutely no sense in trying.
As Mark Twain said:
"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Thus, our conversation is over.
 
Lursa said:
Why would he not set up a system of govt to be free of it?

Centuries of history certainly showed you cant erase religion. He was an educated man.
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People once were saying that centuries of history certainly showed you can't erase slavery either. But we have made good headway in that direction in the modern world.

Never in history has the world been so free of religion either- and the more free of it a society is, the more stable, peaceful, dynamic, and tolerant it seems to be.

Researchers to explore why atheism is growing across the world | Brunel University of London

www.brunel.ac.uk www.brunel.ac.uk
 
Lursa said:
Nope...millions of people are not and do not want to be Christians and no laws (so far) demand we do or must submit to Christian beliefs.

And yet, each Christian woman can follow her abortion/reproductive beliefs as she chooses.
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Nobody said you had to be a Christian, but you can not stop us from voting for laws and politicians who can select judges based on our faith, now can you?
 
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Questerr said:
So Christians support making everything they see as a sin illegal, yes?
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Has been so in the past, yes, but not all Christians, no.

It's not a matter of sin for some of us, it's a matter of life.
 
I see two aspects to this.

First, there is the decision itself. It is entirely possible to arrive at the conclusion that embryos are human life and worthy of protection without reference to any religious ideas at all, let alone any specifically Christian ideas. I have known committed atheists who were strongly anti-abortion. There is no scripture or Christian doctrine that explicitly and specifically speaks to the value of life before birth.

Second, there is the wording that the judge used. As a Christian supporter of the First Amendment, I think the reasoning and citations used by the judge were completely inappropriate. They put him squarely in the position of establishment of a favored religion. This ruling will not stand appeal.
 
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