We need to ban handguns

[Bum]

Some people aren't able to have a rational discussion, so I'll just wish one a nice day.

No, some folks really cannot......however, best of luck in your holy grail quest to ban hand guns.

 

[Craig234]

No, some folks really cannot......however, best of luck in your holy grail quest to ban hand guns.

Thanks. We can agree it's a huge challenge to do. So was American, women voting, a man on the moon, and civil rights. Car safety like seat belts was pretty hard also, which has saved millions of Americans.

 

[Moon]

Second amendment, self-defense, 'freedom', 'resisting the government', name all you want about reasons for guns, and it's fulfilled by long guns.

The only 'self-defense' not met is walking around with a handgun on you. And the fact that there are OTHER, criminal, hostile, people walking around with handguns far outweighs the benefit to your self-defense. The aggressor will far more often have the benefit of shooting first, of surprising or ambushing.

Today, I was assaulted by a young man who had a crazed level of hostility when told to wear his mask over his nose. I suspect he's a criminal mentality in general, with that level of hostility and readiness to use violence. If he'd had a handgun, there's no reason apparent he wouldn't use it.

We do not need that level of danger, that level of murder, because some idiotic, ignorant, deluded people are in a gun cult mentality, even if THEY don't live around the dangerous people who walk around with handguns and criminal mentalities and tempers.

I'm not anti-gun ownership or anti-gun rights. I'm anti-idiotic stealthy guns that greatly increase the danger and killing for only a small fraction of the benefit in return.

Pro-gun people love to say 'mass shootings are a tiny percent of the shootings, banning assault rifles is just a political feel good move that doesn't fix things'. So, let's ban the crime gun: the hand gun. Now.

I'm pretty tired of America being the worst country around in important areas.

Worst at jailing the most, worst at the virus, worst at gun violence, worst at arming the world in military weapons, worst at taking vaccines apparently. The only defense I know for handguns is mindless, and I have no respect for that position.

I DO have some sympathy for the enormous undertaking it would be practically, and the fact that it would be imperfect, where on occasion, 'the only person with a gun was a criminal'. But overall, the number of killings will plummet. I'm open to reasonable ways to implement it over time and phase it in. And I'm tired of the idiotic mentality of people who don't care unless they are personally affected by the violence.

Hard pass, thanks anyway.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Second amendment, self-defense, 'freedom', 'resisting the government', name all you want about reasons for guns, and it's fulfilled by long guns.

The only 'self-defense' not met is walking around with a handgun on you.

Would this be OK. It is not a handgun.

 

[Bum]

It's about as accurate as your statement that it can't be denied, when it has been.

Prohibition apparently worked so well it holds the distinction of being the only constitutional amendment that was repealed in its entirety.....I'm not sure how that qualifies as a success.

As for the war on drugs?

Well....its failure speaks for itself.

The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime's World Drug Report 2005 estimates the size of the global illicit drug market at US$321.6 billion in 2003 alone.[1] With a world GDP of US$36 trillion in the same year, the illegal drug trade may be estimated as nearly 1% of total global trade. Consumption of illegal drugs is widespread globally and it remains very difficult for local authorities to thwart its popularity.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

No, it's not. Here's a bit of a wakeup call for you: Mexican drug cartels get many of their guns from the US. Funny, they don't buy their pot from US pot shops.

The last time I thought of Mexico for pot was during the Carter administration.
Sorry, prohibition will never work on guns because there's already four hundred million of them in private hands.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Second amendment, self-defense, 'freedom', 'resisting the government', name all you want about reasons for guns, and it's fulfilled by long guns.

The only 'self-defense' not met is walking around with a handgun on you. And the fact that there are OTHER, criminal, hostile, people walking around with handguns far outweighs the benefit to your self-defense. The aggressor will far more often have the benefit of shooting first, of surprising or ambushing.

Today, I was assaulted by a young man who had a crazed level of hostility when told to wear his mask over his nose. I suspect he's a criminal mentality in general, with that level of hostility and readiness to use violence. If he'd had a handgun, there's no reason apparent he wouldn't use it.

We do not need that level of danger, that level of murder, because some idiotic, ignorant, deluded people are in a gun cult mentality, even if THEY don't live around the dangerous people who walk around with handguns and criminal mentalities and tempers.

I'm not anti-gun ownership or anti-gun rights. I'm anti-idiotic stealthy guns that greatly increase the danger and killing for only a small fraction of the benefit in return.

Pro-gun people love to say 'mass shootings are a tiny percent of the shootings, banning assault rifles is just a political feel good move that doesn't fix things'. So, let's ban the crime gun: the hand gun. Now.

I'm pretty tired of America being the worst country around in important areas.

Worst at jailing the most, worst at the virus, worst at gun violence, worst at arming the world in military weapons, worst at taking vaccines apparently. The only defense I know for handguns is mindless, and I have no respect for that position.

I DO have some sympathy for the enormous undertaking it would be practically, and the fact that it would be imperfect, where on occasion, 'the only person with a gun was a criminal'. But overall, the number of killings will plummet. I'm open to reasonable ways to implement it over time and phase it in. And I'm tired of the idiotic mentality of people who don't care unless they are personally affected by the violence.

Why do you think killings will go down? Criminals with guns will do as they please. Crime will go up and open gun crimes will rise.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Please reveal your foolproof plan for collecting all handguns in America. This includes the handguns of all criminals, gang members, as well as legal gun owners. When you figure out how to confiscate all guns you may get some movement of this. Legal gun owners are not going to willingly give up guns when they know that criminals will not give them up.

The cost will outstrip that of the total lifetime budget of the war on drugs from beginning to present day in one year or less and fewer than five percent of all guns will be picked up.
It is fiscally, logistically and mathematically impossible to ban guns in the USA. We are not Australia or the UK.
It is never going to happen...not even with the most lefty Democrats imaginable.

Biden can pander to you all he wants but in the end it's just pandering, it will never ever happen.

In fact, as a gun owner myself that is precisely why I laugh whenever Biden OR Beto start screeching about it.
It is NEVER going to happen.

 

[Craig234]

The last time I thought of Mexico for pot was during the Carter administration.

You missed the point of the analogy.

Sorry, prohibition will never work on guns because there's already four hundred million of them in private hands.

Ending slavery will never happen because there are millions of slaves who are central to their owners' wealth and the economy and the culture. How are you going to have millions of people who generally can't even read or write just become 'full citizens' overnight? It's a very hard project. So have a lot of things that have happened.

 

[Craig234]

It is fiscally, logistically and mathematically impossible to ban guns in the USA.

Why did you post about "guns" in a thread specifically about "handguns"? That is a straw man.

 

[Craig234]

Hard pass, thanks anyway.

Then the blood of thousands of Americans annually is on your hands for supporting the handguns that kill them.

 

[Fledermaus]

It appears to be too complicated for you that the best situation is a handgun ban, but that when there isn't a ban, there is a case for law-abiding people to have them against the real danger of dangerous people having them. It's up to each person to weight the pros and cons.

Ban in England. Cumbria still happened.

Ban in Australia. More illegal guns than before the ban.

 

[Fledermaus]

Then the blood of thousands of Americans annually is on your hands for supporting the handguns that kill them.

In the last half century plus not one of my handguns has so much hinted at wanting to shoot someone.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You missed the point of the analogy.



Ending slavery will never happen because there are millions of slaves who are central to their owners' wealth and the economy and the culture. How are you going to have millions of people who generally can't even read or write just become 'full citizens' overnight? It's a very hard project. So have a lot of things that have happened.

Not four hundred million of them, and slaves are human beings, so nobody threw them in a furnace. That was Hitler and the Jews, sorry you have all your failed analogies mixed up, and in any case even Jews aren't guns.
The only thing needed to free the slaves was a pen.
The war happened because slavery fans didn't want it to end but end it did anyway, yes?
Those slaves became free people.
Guns will not become squirt guns.

There isn't enough voter support for your fantasy, not even among Democrats.
That's why it will never ever happen, and by the way, with Trumpers now gearing up for full scale war, it's DEFINITELY never going to happen.
Have you sold your plan to the Trumpers yet?
How many have you confiscated so far?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Tell ya what Craig, come on The Swinging Butter Knife of Justice show with me, either tonight or tomorrow, and I'll bring one pro gun guy and one anti gun guy and you can have a civilized convo with the both of them.

I can't link to it but you know how to search, so look for it, it's easy to find.
You do that and I'll do the rest and I promise you will have fun.

And yes you can remain anonymous.

 

[jotathought]

Here's an interesting statistic.

Of all the murders/non-negligent manslaughters by handguns, rifles, or shotguns, handguns were used for 93%; rifles for 6%; and shotguns for 3% (don't total 100% because of rounding, e.g., handguns are 92.7%).

... and when we include an average year for all firearm deaths (35-40K) in the United States (including suicide), gun deaths make up .012% of deaths. Pretty insignificant from a statistical perspective.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

... and when we include an average year for all firearm deaths (35-40K) in the United States (including suicide), gun deaths make up .012% of deaths. Pretty insignificant from a statistical perspective.

For all the traffic deaths on freeways, 90 something percent involved cars!

 

[jotathought]

For all the traffic deaths on freeways, 90 something percent involved cars!

Traffic deaths make up 38K deaths per year .. another statistically insignificant number (1/8 of 1 percent).

Globally, it's 1.35 million or .0192% of global population (more than guns).

 

[Moon]

Then the blood of thousands of Americans annually is on your hands for supporting the handguns that kill them.

No, that’s ridiculous.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

In the last half century plus not one of my handguns has so much hinted at wanting to shoot someone.

Same here, although for me it's forty-something years I guess.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Why did you post about "guns" in a thread specifically about "handguns"? That is a straw man.

Because it is also the same problem with handguns.
You're overthinking that.
I just said "guns" assuming you understood I was talking about handguns too.

Come on the show, please.

 

[Craig234]

Because it is also the same problem with handguns.
You're overthinking that.
I just said "guns" assuming you understood I was talking about handguns too.

Come on the show, please.

But I'm not talking about handguns, too, I'm talking about handguns, period here. I was clear in laying out a defense of at least most long guns. 'Assault guns' were put aside for this thread.

 

[Craig234]

No, that’s ridiculous.

Could you summarize that detailed argument?

 

[Craig234]

... and when we include an average year for all firearm deaths (35-40K) in the United States (including suicide), gun deaths make up .012% of deaths. Pretty insignificant from a statistical perspective.

Would you mind being killed tonight? I guarantee you it'll be statistically insignificant for the country. Good you're clear that you are for tens of thousands of Americans being killed annually because you don't give a crap about them. Why don't we open it up to up to 10,000 sport killings for tv shows, too? Statistically small so who cares? How about allowing up to 10,000 to pay the government to kill people - help the debt and statistically insignificant.

 

[Craig234]

Not four hundred million of them, and slaves are human beings, so nobody threw them in a furnace. That was Hitler and the Jews, sorry you have all your failed analogies mixed up, and in any case even Jews aren't guns.

I didn't bring up furnaces or Nazis. I brought up an analogy showing the 'it's just too hard to do' argument is wrong.

The only thing needed to free the slaves was a pen.

By that logic, the only thing needed to ban handguns is a pen. No, that's wrong for both cases. Both slavery and handguns are massive projects to end.

There isn't enough voter support for your fantasy, not even among Democrats.

That's a terrible argument. Not long ago most Democrats opposed legalizing gay marriage, too. Most still don't vote for the best candidate in decades, Bernie. So what? They're wrong. That doesn't change the issue.

That's why it will never ever happen, and by the way, with Trumpers now gearing up for full scale war, it's DEFINITELY never going to happen.

The issue before 'will it happen' is 'should we support it happening'. There's little point in talking about 'will it' when there's no agreement on 'should it'.