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We have opened Pandora's Box

Bucky

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Sunday’s bombshell reports by MIT Technology Review and the Associated Press — that renowned Chinese scientist He Jiankui said he had used the CRISPR/Cas9 gene-editing tool to create the world’s first two genetically modified human babies — led to headlines around the world.

The birth of the first genetically tailored humans would be a stunning medical achievement, for both He and China. But it will prove controversial, too. Where some see a new form of medicine that eliminates genetic disease, others see a slippery slope to enhancements, designer babies and a new form of eugenics.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...enetic-engineering-babies-20181128-story.html

We will see a new subspecies of human development. Slave humans. Sex humans. Fighting Humans. The price humanity will pay is steep.
 
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Xelor

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Did anyone think gene-engineering humans would remain "no man's land?"

The concern should be that other nations will embrace it and avail themselves of it to create "better" specimens than the US produces via traditional means.

And, no, it's not a "Pandora's Box," at least not IMO. Indeed, were I able to have engineered my kids to bigger, stronger, smarter, faster and more resistant and/or impervious to physiological maladies, I would have in a "NY minute"...the doctors would only have had to tell me how much it cost.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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The biggest money will be in genetic modifications to improve performance, physical in the west and mental in Asia. I can imagine millions of Chinese willing to spend $100 000 per kid to boost their intelligence. First the scientists will need to identify which genes (and I expect their are many) are involved in intelligence (at least raw potential)
 

Bucky

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Did anyone think gene-engineering humans would remain "no man's land?"

The concern should be that other nations will embrace it and avail themselves of it to create "better" specimens than the US produces via traditional means.

And, no, it's not a "Pandora's Box," at least not IMO. Indeed, were I able to have engineered my kids to bigger, stronger, smarter, faster and more resistant and/or impervious to physiological maladies, I would have in a "NY minute"...the doctors would only have had to tell me how much it cost.

Why even give humans the choice to breed? Why not let the government select your mate for you based on genetics? Wouldn't that be a lot easier and prevent a lot more undesirable humans?
 

Tom Horn

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Why even give humans the choice to breed? Why not let the government select your mate for you based on genetics? Wouldn't that be a lot easier and prevent a lot more undesirable humans?

Slave humans. Chinese have 100’s of millions of those already.
Sex humans. Yeah. I wouldn’t wanna do it with a Chinese girl either.
Military humans. All the Nungs now fight on our side.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Why even give humans the choice to breed? Why not let the government select your mate for you based on genetics? Wouldn't that be a lot easier and prevent a lot more undesirable humans?

This is going to happen, with or without the government being involved. If just one national government allows it, private individuals will go their seeking to provide their children with an advantage. Some governments will also promote it, and try to use it as well, but the demand for it will be huge, once people know what genes need to be modified to achiece the desired results. Combine this with surrogacy and the market among the worlds rich will be huge
 

Xelor

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Why even give humans the choice to breed? Why not let the government select your mate for you based on genetics? Wouldn't that be a lot easier and prevent a lot more undesirable humans?


Red:
Because there's simply no need to do that. Individuals who want children can, when they are ready to have them, simply engineer their kid's genetics and that's that.


Blue:
The outcome -- "custom tailored" kids -- would be the same, but the government's involvement would irk some people. There's no point in doing that if one doesn't need to...And if one doesn't need to and yet does it, no, it's not easier.
 

Hawkeye10

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When we get to a global government this will be one of the first things dealt with.
 

DaveFagan

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Red:
Because there's simply no need to do that. Individuals who want children can, when they are ready to have them, simply engineer their kid's genetics and that's that.


Blue:
The outcome -- "custom tailored" kids -- would be the same, but the government's involvement would irk some people. There's no point in doing that if one doesn't need to...And if one doesn't need to and yet does it, no, it's not easier.

Maybe I'm senile, but I don't think so. I never see gov't or educational institutions, or scientists trustworthy with anything that has the potential to be tainted with Big Money. It's just like AI with huge upside potential, but implemented by morons. Predictable results, much like AGW.
/
 

Captain Adverse

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Did anyone think gene-engineering humans would remain "no man's land?"

The concern should be that other nations will embrace it and avail themselves of it to create "better" specimens than the US produces via traditional means.

And, no, it's not a "Pandora's Box," at least not IMO. Indeed, were I able to have engineered my kids to bigger, stronger, smarter, faster and more resistant and/or impervious to physiological maladies, I would have in a "NY minute"...the doctors would only have had to tell me how much it cost.

Slippery slope to "super-soldiers" and other "superior beings."

The problem being manifold; including gene war, slave models, hierarchies based on genetic pecking orders.

It's one thing to develop genetics that rejuvenate or heal...another to design beings who might decide they are better than "normals" and act on it.

Doesn't anyone read science fiction? :unsure13:
 
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Xelor

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Maybe I'm senile, but I don't think so. I never see gov't or educational institutions, or scientists trustworthy with anything that has the potential to be tainted with Big Money. It's just like AI with huge upside potential, but implemented by morons. Predictable results, much like AGW.
/
You and I have very different takes on gov't officials (that is, the non-political ones; the SES folks and their direct reports), academicians, scientists and private sector researchers.

In my 30+ years of being at least two of those and working with folks of each classification, I've never come by a situation that mimics "AI implemented by morons" (AIIM) because my professional career hasn't been peppered with morons. What I have occasionally seen is very bright and capable individuals thrust into, and occasionally soliciting, situations for which they are ill or sub-optimally suited and, as a result, delivering merely mediocre results.

I'm not going to say the circumstance you've described (AIIM) doesn't occur, for it must. I'm saying that in may "place" in the world, an "up or out" place populated by high performers (even the ones who are forced out before reaching a the point where it's no longer up-or-out are high performers), it's not at all the norm. What is the norm is that folks rise to the occasion and meet or exceed expectations, personally and professionally.

FWIW, as a footnote, if you will, while there are some academicians, scientists and SES (and whatever is the equivalent in state/local gov't) who are the "worst of the best," even they can't rightly be described as "morons," or even generally inept. I think "disappointing," in a relative context, is a fitting way to classify them. Accordingly, I don't think it's apt to use the AIIM analogy to describe the "it," whatever "it" may be, you mentioned.
 

uptower

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Countries that do not follow near-eastern monotheistic religions wherein creation is sacred, will find it a lot easier to tamper with the human genome without any moral objections from society. They're not afraid of 'playing god' so to speak.
 

Xelor

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Slippery slope to "super-soldiers" and other "superior beings."

The problem being manifold; including gene war, slave models, hierarchies based on genetic pecking orders.

It's one thing to develop genetics that rejuvenate or heal...another to design beings who might decide they are better than "normals" and act on it.

Doesn't anyone read science fiction? :unsure13:

Be that slippery slope as it may, I see no reason for breeders in the US to be anything other than of "superior" genetic composition re: health, intellect and physical abilities. To the extent that's the case, I'm fine with it. Call that an excess of patriotism if you'd like, but I'm nonetheless fine with it.
 

Pedestrian

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Why even give humans the choice to breed? Why not let the government select your mate for you based on genetics? Wouldn't that be a lot easier and prevent a lot more undesirable humans?

But where's the looove man ?
 

Pedestrian

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If you at all can believe in alien abductions, we join their club.

The 'victims' tell us the little grays, are...organic robots and why they need to harvest our DNA.

Advanced alien societies have no problem it seems with creating a life form...to serve them.
 

Hari Seldon

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Slave humans. Chinese have 100’s of millions of those already.
Sex humans. Yeah. I wouldn’t wanna do it with a Chinese girl either.
Military humans. All the Nungs now fight on our side.

I'm guessing they feel the same way about you.
 

Hari Seldon

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Slippery slope to "super-soldiers" and other "superior beings."

The problem being manifold; including gene war, slave models, hierarchies based on genetic pecking orders.

It's one thing to develop genetics that rejuvenate or heal...another to design beings who might decide they are better than "normals" and act on it.

Doesn't anyone read science fiction? :unsure13:

Start with The Foundation. Don't worry, R Daneel Olivaw will save us.
 

Tom Horn

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Checkerboard Strangler

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Did anyone think gene-engineering humans would remain "no man's land?"

The concern should be that other nations will embrace it and avail themselves of it to create "better" specimens than the US produces via traditional means.

And, no, it's not a "Pandora's Box," at least not IMO. Indeed, were I able to have engineered my kids to bigger, stronger, smarter, faster and more resistant and/or impervious to physiological maladies, I would have in a "NY minute"...the doctors would only have had to tell me how much it cost.

I'm sure Karen would have checked the box next to "resistant to damage from ionizing radiation" and asked how much it would cost. As for me, I'm sure my folks would have clicked on things that would prevent Asperger's, Tourettes and the proverbial laundry list of other physical issues that plague jewish kids.
 

DaveFagan

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You and I have very different takes on gov't officials (that is, the non-political ones; the SES folks and their direct reports), academicians, scientists and private sector researchers.

In my 30+ years of being at least two of those and working with folks of each classification, I've never come by a situation that mimics "AI implemented by morons" (AIIM) because my professional career hasn't been peppered with morons. What I have occasionally seen is very bright and capable individuals thrust into, and occasionally soliciting, situations for which they are ill or sub-optimally suited and, as a result, delivering merely mediocre results.

I'm not going to say the circumstance you've described (AIIM) doesn't occur, for it must. I'm saying that in may "place" in the world, an "up or out" place populated by high performers (even the ones who are forced out before reaching a the point where it's no longer up-or-out are high performers), it's not at all the norm. What is the norm is that folks rise to the occasion and meet or exceed expectations, personally and professionally.

FWIW, as a footnote, if you will, while there are some academicians, scientists and SES (and whatever is the equivalent in state/local gov't) who are the "worst of the best," even they can't rightly be described as "morons," or even generally inept. I think "disappointing," in a relative context, is a fitting way to classify them. Accordingly, I don't think it's apt to use the AIIM analogy to describe the "it," whatever "it" may be, you mentioned.

"It" could be exemplified by Monsanto being the money that brings "genetic editing of humans" into the mainstream. To me that represents the worst of all Worlds. I have worked science, sales, research, hi tech, and for disparate groups including alternative power structures. There are many ecucated beyond their intelligence, but brilliant in their narrow field. Money always winds up in control. That's capitalism or in our contemporary culture, Corporatism. Profit cannot develop moral answers or results.
/
 

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I think we ought to wait and see what happens. If it causes too many problems, then we can start restricting it. Otherwise, it holds great potential for eliminating genetic disorders.
 

zyzygy

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Slave humans. Chinese have 100’s of millions of those already.
Sex humans. Yeah. I wouldn’t wanna do it with a Chinese girl either.
Military humans. All the Nungs now fight on our side.

I've done it with a Chinese girl and it was wonderful. What did you mean by "either"?
 

jparkshere

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Gene editing on humans, as in humans that is already living and using the technology to increase longevity or cure a disease. That I understand. But to make gene edited babies, or even gene edit a twin babies? Why? What's their purpose of doing this? And this is not even the real kicker here. China said they will stop this research, but there are scientists from other countries that says they will continue doing this. Again. Why? Why "create" a baby?
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Gene editing on humans, as in humans that is already living and using the technology to increase longevity or cure a disease. That I understand. But to make gene edited babies, or even gene edit a twin babies? Why? What's their purpose of doing this? And this is not even the real kicker here. China said they will stop this research, but there are scientists from other countries that says they will continue doing this. Again. Why? Why "create" a baby?

They did not create a baby in this case.

I believe they took a few fertilized eggs, used CRISPER technology to modify a couple of genes, that are supposed to make the babies immune to AID/HIV. By doing this on the fertilized eggs, the entire genetic make up of the babies will have been changed, ensuring their offspring would be immune to aids/hiv.

Yes it will continue, just more quietly and in private
 

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