ricksfolly
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
- Messages
- 2,236
- Reaction score
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- Location
- Grand Junction, CO 81506
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- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
When the Russians where there and towards the end of their campaign, they found out that snipers where very effective against this kind of warfare.All the tapes from Afghanistan clearly show that our troops are stationed in outposts all over the country. The enemy, whoever that is, shoots at them in the dark, and disappears before our troops can hunt them down. And since the enemy has no tanks, no planes, no bases, only scattered resistance, our army can only sit back and wait.
West Point Officers who only know about conventional wars, have no place in this kind of hit and run war. So let's phase them all out, and turn it over to sergeants and other non-coms, who know how to adjust to new and different situations.
ricksfolly
All the tapes from Afghanistan clearly show that our troops are stationed in outposts all over the country. The enemy, whoever that is, shoots at them in the dark, and disappears before our troops can hunt them down. And since the enemy has no tanks, no planes, no bases, only scattered resistance, our army can only sit back and wait.
West Point Officers who only know about conventional wars, have no place in this kind of hit and run war. So let's phase them all out, and turn it over to sergeants and other non-coms, who know how to adjust to new and different situations.
why are we using regular military? this isnt a war its a counter insurgency operation. delta seals rangers and the cia need to create death squads to kill AL queda and Taliban forces
Who's going to provide logistics and support to them?
we dont need to establish bases just kill them quickly and quietly
All the tapes from Afghanistan clearly show that our troops are stationed in outposts all over the country. The enemy, whoever that is, shoots at them in the dark, and disappears before our troops can hunt them down. And since the enemy has no tanks, no planes, no bases, only scattered resistance, our army can only sit back and wait.
West Point Officers who only know about conventional wars, have no place in this kind of hit and run war. So let's phase them all out, and turn it over to sergeants and other non-coms, who know how to adjust to new and different situations.
ricksfolly
BTW AuntieYou surely can't be discussing McChrystal and Petreus because they've both had extensive combat experience aside their schooling :shrug: Surely what they didn't learn in school they've since learned on the battle field? Surely their extensive training is quite flexible in all the areas necessary - when it's applicable to the situation.
Note - our former General, General McChrystal - did NOT attend West Point . . . and he's former :shrug: So maybe that actually says something.
What makes you think our West Point officers aren't being taught unconventional tactics now? What makes you think sergeants and non-commissioned officers are experts on unconventional warfare?
Lotta armchair generalship going on here.
Petraeus literally wrote the book on counter-insurgency. Let him do things his way, and we'll see progress.
Look at the ever increasing number of deaths and other injuries on a month by month basis.
Someone somewhere is proposing that this fight be fought in a not too successful manner.
West Point officers are the officers in charge of US personel.
What makes you think our West Point officers aren't being taught unconventional tactics now? What makes you think sergeants and non-commissioned officers are experts on unconventional warfare?
Non-com boots on the ground is a far better learning experience than reading maps and pin sticking from remote areas, especially since our enemy has no rules of engagement of his own and every situation is new and different.
Really, now. How does a general or colonel formulate plans and counter plans, when the enemy acts randomly?
All General Petraeus can say is, "We are in this to win, we are engaged in a contest of wills," and offers no clue about what we can win, or what giant wills he's in a contest with. One can only wonder if he's living in the past when ROE had its last hurrah.
You are correct samsmart and Rick officers do learn a lot from non -comms but usually in their junior officers stage but that said combat is a learning experience everyday but strategy and tactics are always for the most part left to the officers.And you think commissioned officers don't learn a thing or two about actual combat in the +22 years it takes them to go from Lieutenant to Colonel or General?
You also need to learn the difference between "strategy" and "tactics."
Currently a very good portion of our armored tactics was intiated by this very talented and knowlegdable General ..Rommel BTW who dispised Hitler..I have a question for rick: what makes you think the insurgents have no generals? The various groups definitely have top leadership which would qualify for the world general and these men do help coordinate attacks across the country. Besides that we're talking about asymmetrical warfare which means what works for one side will not work for the other. A looser chain of command might work well for insurgents but horribly for those fighting them for a variety of reasons (from logistics to rules of engagement to the need to implement COIN strategy).
Finally, you should probably consider that US military strategy tends to be based off the originally German idea of "mission tactics," which tends to emphasize flexibility and freedom of action on the lower ranks after having been given an objective but the higher ups. So non-coms already have a high degree of autonomy especially in combat.
As for joe's idea of just using special ops, no its not intelligence it is the kind of tactics that we've been using. Targeted killing of insurgents and insurgent leaders has been the order of the day since US troops arrived in the country. Special forces, aircraft, and predator drones are being and have been used. But that's not an effective means of fighting insurgency. The point of counter-insurgency is not to kill the enemy, it is to secure the populace and secure territory. These tactics have helped defeat or at least bring under control insurgencies in numerous instances from the Second Boer War (probably the original COIN strategy though a bit more brutal than modern versions), to Sri Lanka (after two decades of joe's "just kill the insurgents plan" having no results they finally switched to COIN and within a few years crushed the Tamil independence movement), to Iraq (where Petraeus' COIN strategy yield huge dividends in increasing security though the Iraqis will probably have to work a few more years before the insurgency finally dies out). To do COIN you need lots of troops and special forces, while good in any number of ways, are designed to do the kind of day-to-day ground holding and security work needed for COIN, nor are there enough of them.
You surely can't be discussing McChrystal and Petreus because they've both had extensive combat experience aside their schooling :shrug: Surely what they didn't learn in school they've since learned on the battle field? Surely their extensive training is quite flexible in all the areas necessary - when it's applicable to the situation.
Note - our former General, General McChrystal - did NOT attend West Point . . . and he's former :shrug: So maybe that actually says something.
Actually, McChrystal did graduate from West Point. The fact that he's the former theater commander doesn't really say anything, unless there's any real proof that McChrystal screwed the pooch; or were his hands tied by the suits-n-ties in Washington.
Look at the ever increasing number of deaths and other injuries on a month by month basis.
Someone somewhere is proposing that this fight be fought in a not too successful manner.
West Point officers are the officers in charge of US personel.
How many deaths have occurred this past month? Five? Not a big number to decide that we are losing this war.
How many deaths have occurred this past month? Five? Not a big number to decide that we are losing this war.
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