Was the attack on the Capitol an attempted coup?

[JANFU]

skeptic IIc:

Oh, we're reeling you into Canadianism! Starting a sentence with an apology! I'm so proud!

But onto to the contents of your post. You have made certain assertions, which is fine. Such assertions need supporting evidence, however. Let's go into detail.

The "force" certainly existed in so far as any body of thousands of people assembled together constitutes a force. But was that force sufficient for taking power away from the US Government and holding that power from being retaken from that same government, which holds the greatest military might in the modern world?

Are you suggesting that an insurrection must be successful to support intent?

 

[mrjurrs]

Mrjurrs:

I think we're getting our wires crossed. Do you mean a legal definition of coup d'etat or a legal definition of insurrection? If coup, I think you are reaching too far. If insurrection then you are right, if intent can be proved.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

I'm not comfortable using the word coup, you have to go about 15 usages deep to get to stealing an election and coup d'etat is just incorrect. I was referring to insurrection and I'd say there is clear evidence of intent.

 

[Integrityrespec]

View attachment 67313203

Lets see, #kill Trump, #assasinate Trump, #pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon.
Do you recall these calls all last year during the riots across American cities by BLM and ANTIFA? Well, where is you outrage and your insistance that was an insurrection and an attempted coup?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Lets see, #kill Trump, #assasinate Trump, #pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon.
Do you recall these calls all last year during the riots across American cities by BLM and ANTIFA? Well, where is you outrage and your insistance that was an insurrection and an attempted coup?

So now every Democrat is an Antifa hugger.
So that's justification for civil war. Got it, duly noted.
Here's your Vanilla ISIS badge.

 

[JANFU]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/terror-watchlist-capitol-riot-fbi/2021/01/14/07412814-55f7-11eb-a931-5b162d0d033d_story.html

The majority of the watch-listed individuals in Washington that day are suspected white supremacists whose past conduct so alarmed investigators that their names had been previously entered into the national Terrorist Screening Database, or TSDB, a massive set of names flagged as potential security risks, these people said. The watch list is larger and separate from the “no-fly” list the government maintains to prevent terrorism suspects from boarding airplanes, and those listed are not automatically barred from any public or commercial spaces, current and former officials said.

Wonder how many more would be on the watch list if the US had a domestic terror law, and should let DOJ loose on these groups

 

[noonereal]

I wear sneakers almost every day and never due to being fearful ... but I can also run in dress shoes.

I am sure you are familiar with running.

 

[Bodi]

I am sure you are familiar with running.

I run from pretty much everything... , old people in wheel chairs, yuppies, puppies and big walking bunnies with zombie eyes...

I bump into any of those in an alley at night and I run... fast.

 

[Nickyjo]

No, its based upon ALL the anomolies of the 2020 election. Why are truckloads of completed ballots sent from one state to the other?
++ do you have a link to evidence of this and explanations offered by those involved?
How does the vote count for Trump go down through the counting process?
++ As has been explained several times, in some states urban votes come in later. One could just as arbitrarily suggest that Trump’s early lead was suspicious, ignoring the fact that in some states rural votes come in earlier.
No one has even attempted to offer any justifications.
++ Saw plenty of those on TV

Obviously, someone should take all this info to court and sue. Ooops! Been there, done that. Trump or others could post a reward and offer to defend those who were part of the fraud if the come forward. But the question I have posed to Trump supporters remains unanswered: knowing Trump, that he predicted a fix before the election, that he claimed that the 2016 totals were wrong, that he falsely claimed his EC victory then was the largest since Reagan, and going way back, he grumbled about the Emmy not going to him, do you think there is any way he would have accepted the results of 2020. Best line from him, something like: “I’ll say I didn’t win, I won’t say I lost.” That tells you everything about this sad, sick man.

 

[Jonsa]

6. We came pretty close to having a mob take out the next three replacements for the President - the VP, and Speaker.

LOL!!

Out of a post with a bunch of stupid stuff being said, this one is, by far, the most stupid. Nancy and Mike were never in danger.

But no. This even was nothing close to a "coup".

But many others were. and yes it was nothing like a coup because both trump and his maga auxillery fascist white nationalist qanon lowlifes are too friggin stupid, which is the saving grace of this whole fiasco.

 

[dixon01767]

Are you suggesting that an insurrection must be successful to support intent?

The term used is "coup' not insurrection.

coup: a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

not

in·sur·rec·tion : a violent uprising against an authority or government.

Any protest that include violence, like the 100s of BLM protests turned violent over the last year are insurrections.

 

[JANFU]

The term used is "coup' not insurrection.

coup: a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

not

in·sur·rec·tion : a violent uprising against an authority or government.

Any protest that include violence, like the 100s of BLM protests turned violent over the last year are insurrections.

Wait for some charges, legal terms are Rebellion and Insurrection

Rebellion or Insurrection - FindLaw

When examining the crimes of rebellion and insurrection, it's important to understand how they compare to treason and sedition. Learn about January 6th, rioting, the Proud Boys, and much more at FindLaw.com.

criminal.findlaw.com

Despite our nation's refusal to be ruled, the government that arose from the Revolutionary War has passed laws prohibiting rebellion or insurrection. Although the law is rarely invoked, it carries serious penalties. The following article provides an overview of the federal crime of rebellion and insurrection and how it differs from sedition and treason.

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government

 

[dixon01767]

Obviously, someone should take all this info to court and sue. Ooops! Been there, done that.

Court cases were dismissed on standing and procedural grounds. No examination of the evidence. I hope court cases seeking the evidence will follow. No one yet has even examined the ballots and tabulating servers which could prove or disprove the allegations. Lets hear ANYONES explanation for shipment of completed ballots from one state to another. ANY explanation for returned mail in ballots in sequential numerical order for counting. ANY explanation for the counting process resulting in a reduction of votes. Weve seen the video of poll workers retrieving bins of completed ballots from under the tables to count, after all the poll watchers were cleared from the room, why havent we yet seen the video showing the people and time when they were placed under the table and an explanation for the difference in time and purpose.
The loudness of the proclamations of fact that there is no fraud, without any evidence, and this unprecedented media attempts to suppress any accusations of fraud combined with the complete absence of any examination of the evidence, is certainly suspicious.
Following the disputed 2000 election, the media was able to examine the ballots and actually determine the fact that Bush had indeed won. The complete absence of any similar media examination of this election will only elevate the suspicions.

 

[dixon01767]

Wait for some charges, legal terms are Rebellion and Insurrection

No, Im referring to the debate here on the forum. "
Was the attack on the Capitol an attempted coup?

and the poster you were responding to. '"coup" was the term used not insurrection

 

[Mycroft]

Seems one of the AP's (agent provacator) finally got arrested. The dumbass screwed himself with his own videos.

 

[Nickyjo]

Court cases were dismissed on standing and procedural grounds. No examination of the evidence. I hope court cases seeking the evidence will follow. No one yet has even examined the ballots and tabulating servers which could prove or disprove the allegations. Lets hear ANYONES explanation for shipment of completed ballots from one state to another. ANY explanation for returned mail in ballots in sequential numerical order for counting. ANY explanation for the counting process resulting in a reduction of votes. Weve seen the video of poll workers retrieving bins of completed ballots from under the tables to count, after all the poll watchers were cleared from the room, why havent we yet seen the video showing the people and time when they were placed under the table and an explanation for the difference in time and purpose.
The loudness of the proclamations of fact that there is no fraud, without any evidence, and this unprecedented media attempts to suppress any accusations of fraud combined with the complete absence of any examination of the evidence, is certainly suspicious.
Following the disputed 2000 election, the media was able to examine the ballots and actually determine the fact that Bush had indeed won. The complete absence of any similar media examination of this election will only elevate the suspicions.

Sorry, you still haven't offered evidence, only incidents that have -as far as I know- been explained by the people involved. Barr, who was as faithful to Trump as anyone could be, who commanded the DOJ, saw no evidence of great fraud. The only reason we are having this back and forth is Trump's ego. We all could vote openly with ballots available for everyone to look at, and if Trump lost he would claim fraud. The old joke about Nixon was "would you buy a used car from this man." You seem to be interested in buying Trump's used lies. Remember, this is not much different than Trump's claim of fraud in the 2016 election that he WON in 2016. And he suggested the Emmys were rigged against him. Sense a pattern here?

 

[JANFU]

No, Im referring to the debate here on the forum. "
Was the attack on the Capitol an attempted coup?

and the poster you were responding to. '"coup" was the term used not insurrection

Cal it a coup if one wishes- It was Rebellion & Insurrection

 

[Integrityrespec]

All they needed to stop/delay the election process on the 6th was to destroy the EC votes which were on the floor of the house, or kidnap a hostage. They came within a minute of doing so.

LOLOLOL.... BS, you really think there are no copies? BS. None of the Congressional members were hurt, a few may have had to send their shorts out to the laundry because they aren't used to having any threat beyond the irate driver behind them at the drive-through window. Seriously, they never gave a good crap about the summer voilent riots in cities all over the US. The vandalizing the arson and looting of businesses, the people killed like officer Dorn. The attacks on the federal court house in Portland the attack and burning of the police precinct house. None of that got a response from the Congress, particularly democrats until it hit close to them. That's the truth of what we have in Congress right now. I don't want to see anyone harmed but that means Congress should have acted this summer against the actions of BLM and ANTIFA and they didn't.

 

[dixon01767]

Cal it a coup if one wishes- It was Rebellion & Insurrection

Trump incited a protest.

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

"So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, ..... and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… our Republicans, .... try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country."

"So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America."

AND EVEN if the Republicans failed to do so he incited them to-

"And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget."

Democrats have been inciting protests for MONTHS that have been more violent than 1/6. The media has been fawning over them as they occurred for months. THE HEIGHTS of hypocrisy to label this ONE protest a "coup" or "insurrection" and the other 200 more violent protest a "peaceful protest".

 

[dixon01767]

LOLOLOL....

Yeah, does he imagine the Pony Express delivering leather satchels of parchment paper with the recorded electoral votes from the states?

 

[dixon01767]

Sorry, you still haven't offered evidence, only incidents that have -as far as I know- been explained by the people involved.

An incorrect assumption. And the ballots and servers that need to be examined are in the hands of the local Democrat governments that retain possession of them.

 

[Schrott]

They tried a Adolf, like the burning of the Reichstag and than invoke the emergency laws, dissolve Congress and than rule.

 

[JANFU]

Trump incited a protest.

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

"So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, ..... and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give… our Republicans, .... try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country."

"So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America."

AND EVEN if the Republicans failed to do so he incited them to-

"And you know what? If they do the wrong thing, we should never ever forget that they did. Never forget. We should never ever forget."

Democrats have been inciting protests for MONTHS that have been more violent than 1/6. The media has been fawning over them as they occurred for months. THE HEIGHTS of hypocrisy to label this ONE protest a "coup" or "insurrection" and the other 200 more violent protest a "peaceful protest".

He incited an Insurrection & Rebellion
Senators and House R's backed the Big Lie
Many of these ffn simpletons bought into the Grifters lies, the Congress Critters- well at least 10 did not run & hide

Now when these ardent Trump supporters realize they have been used- watch out

 

[Jonsa]

None of the selections were what happened.
The event was an attempt to give a closeup and personal protest that the congress could not ignore. It was not a coup.

The rise of what socialism becomes is the autocratic power being opposed. Whether you are a freedom fighter or terrorist is defined by the winner.

I agree it wasn't a coup. It was merely an insurrection over a lie.

 

[Evilroddy]

As the investigations progress, charges laid, charges upped to more severe, I am on the opinion that there was coordination between some groups.
I have a feeling there will be a few Rebellion/Insurrection charges

This like many criminal cases, follow the money, who provided funding, what direction was given, was there coordination, intent to harm/kill specific members of Congress

SM are no doubt dealing with multiples subpoenas from FB to emails,banks and more

A ton of info yet to come

JANFU:

Yup, investigations are progressing and eventually we'll have much better information upon which to build an understanding of what happened on and before Jan. 6th, 2021. Until then, I will go with minimalist terms based on what we do know now.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Are you suggesting that an insurrection must be successful to support intent?

JANFU:

No, success is not a necessary prerequisite for using the term insurrection. However there are three terms at play in this debate. They are "riot", "insurrection" and "coup d'etat". I think there is nearly universal, broad-based agreement that the Capitol Riot was at least a riot. There is also pretty wide consensus that this was an attempted insurrection by those who are alleged to have incited the riot and those rioters who actually attacked the Capitol. Initially I was wary of using that term, but as new information emerges about evidence of planning and coordination, I am being forced to reexamine my initial unwillingness to characterise the riot as an insurrection. I haven't fully made up my mind on this yet. At this point however I still think that the term "coup" is a bridge too far, as a coup attempts to seize and to hold onto power from a rightful political authority, rather than to just disrupt or cancel the process of the rightful state exercising its authority, something which the riot/insurrection had no hope of doing even in the best-case scenario (best case from the rioters' POV, that is.).

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.