Was the attack on the Capitol an attempted coup?

[Evilroddy]

Highly debatable, my friend. Their intentions were known long before that day. I submit the following for your consideration:



Gotta call it what it is, man. Otherwise, as so many have said, you leave the door just a bit wider than it was before for the next Trump...and, as the video warns, perhaps they'll be a bit better at it, to where they actually stand a chance of success. Our friends to the south dodged a bullet...it's not wise to call it a pebble.

OlNate:

A very good video, thank you for posting it.

You may have noticed that the fellow explicitly glossed over and dismissed proper definitions of coups and revolutions to make his very valid point that creeping authoritarianism is a perennial threat to the American republic. He is right in his thesis but again is trying to rebrand a riotous protest into a coup d'etat in order to strengthen what is already a strong thesis. Reshaping reality to better fit a political end is not a valid tactic in my humble opinion.

Please do not think for a moment that I wish to downplay the gravity of this riot or the very real threat of President Trump and his cadre of very dangerous sycophantic enablers nor his host of followers in his cult of personality. Riots, like coup d'etats can topple governments and change established orders. This is not an attempt to in anyway diminish the gravity and danger posed by the riotous protesters and very dangerous authoritarians who first conditioned the minds of the mob and then incited them to march on the Capitol and to riot. They are all enemies of the state and should be prosecuted accordingly.

But alas, see my signature below. That's why inflationary vocabulary is being used to turn riots into coups. This is being done to relieve those in power from having to explicitly punish the powerful for their roles in this tragic, watershed event, as President Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and all the other usual suspects are not the only ones to blame. So are a large segment of the sitting US Senate, the House, some in state Legislatures, Senates, Governors, media figures and many more. The rot runs deep and wide, but America is, as usual, trying to simplify and personify it into the bad behaviour of one or two persons so that the systemic rot/threat can be swept under the rug and ignored. This is a much bigger problem than just Donald Trump and your video speaker was trying to make that clear.

Cheers, be well and remember we Canadians used to regularly burn down our parliaments but nobody had the bad taste to call those capital bonfires coup d'etats.
Evilroddy.

 

[NWRatCon]

NWRatCon:

The only "seriously armed" individual whom I have read about is the protester who had 11 Molotov cocktails, a semi-automatic rifle and a semi-automatic pistol plus ammunition stowed in his car, a block and a half away from the Capitol Park. As these were not on his person while he was in the Capitol, that tends to weaken the "seriously armed" argument. Others may have been armed with firearms but I am not yet aware of any such cases yet.

You'll get no argument from me on your case for sedition, at least for those who engineered the riot. Proving intent of the rioters may be more difficult for some and easier for others, so we'll have to let that one play out. I've been characterising what has been going on for the last two years as sedition from the get go.

However the phrases/words coup d'etat and insurrection I reason are exagerations born out of a political desire by those in power to avoid having to take the hard steps necessary to remove Mr. Trump from office and to ban him from ever running again for elected office in America through House impeachment and Senate trial. Political expediency should never reshape reality, IMHO.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Just a few points on my way to slumber...

There were others armed with firearms, although I would guess fewer than a dozen, maybe as few as a half-dozen. There is a photo of several in the rotunda, but I'd have to dredge it back up. Admittedly, it is hard to tell if they are armed with sidearms, tasers, or mace - all of which were employed in the attack, BTW, and all of which are illegal to possess on the premises. The officer who was killed was struck with a fire extinguisher.

Several individuals used fire extinguishers from the premises for battering rams and bludgeons, as well as shields taken from police members, and the flagpoles they brought with them. But, those are quibbles.

I think our discussion is really about gradations: When does a riot ascend to insurrection? When does sedition reach the level of a coup? I think that sedition is absolutely appropriate, and I would assert that their action was an insurrection (making them insurgents). I would tend to agree that "coup" generally implies more organization than was on display, but I have little doubt that was Trump's intent in inciting it.

 

[skeptic llc]

No, not by any real definition. For the vast majority of participants it was trespassing. Hopefully they can track down those that engaged in vandalism and physical confrontations with police. Apparently an envelope was stolen as well.

also laptops with top secret information, but please go on with the dismissive approach when discussing an organized mob overrunning the government to stop a voted-out carrot from losing power, it's charming

 

[Linc]

No, not by any real definition. For the vast majority of participants it was trespassing. Hopefully they can track down those that engaged in vandalism and physical confrontations with police. Apparently an envelope was stolen as well.

Good thing the zip tie Air Force combat Veteran didn’t get to #2, #3, and #4. Good thing the electoral votes were evacuated with both chambers.

 

[post]

also laptops with top secret information, but please go on with the dismissive approach when discussing an organized mob overrunning the government to stop a voted-out carrot from losing power, it's charming

2:00 PM

2:10 PM

2:38 PM

 

[MaryP]

Seriously, who did not see this coming? Four years of Nazi rallies didn't let you know something ugly was brewing?

It always gave me the willies when at those rallies they started chanting.... Lock her up ... Lock them up .... U S A ....

 

[Antiwar]

Read a significant amount of the Wikipedia page, then try to deny it:

January 6 United States Capitol attack - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[MaryP]

OlNate:

But alas, see my signature below. That's why inflationary vocabulary is being used to turn riots into coups. This is being done to relieve those in power from having to explicitly punish the powerful for their roles in this tragic, watershed event, as President Trump, Rudy Giuliani, and all the other usual suspects are not the only ones to blame. So are a large segment of the sitting US Senate, the House, some in state Legislatures, Senates, Governors, media figures and many more. The rot runs deep and wide, but America is, as usual, trying to simplify and personify it into the bad behaviour of one or two persons so that the systemic rot/threat can be swept under the rug and ignored. This is a much bigger problem than just Donald Trump and your video speaker was trying to make that clear.

Cheers, be well and remember we Canadians used to regularly burn down our parliaments but nobody had the bad taste to call those capital bonfires coup d'etats.
Evilroddy.

I'm not so sure that's the case, Roddy. Perhaps it sounds like America is just zoning in on Trump and his most vocal leadership, but I've been doing a mighty lot of reading on this, both reactions and news articles, and a lot of people are not forgetting the players at home in their state legislatures and communities that had a hand in this. I think a lot of people are going to remember those loud voices for a long time. To the point where I started to worry about it a little.

Of course, we can't forget that at least a third of the country still supports and approves of the President, according to numerous polls since Wednesday. So going totally nuts and hanging them all is out of the question, so sayeth the politicians. And since these people are our neighbors, coworkers and family members, most of us agree. We'll deal with them at the polls as long as they don't try anymore nonsense. But I think we'll remember this one. I really do.

 

[dncc]

I didnt really think so, but as more info comes out, I have to wonder if it wasnt an incompetent attempt.

1. Capitol Police were completely and mysteriously unprepared, even though they knew a large crowd with violent rhetoric was going to be there.
2. Help was refused several times while the event was being planned - the FBI, etc. When the other BLM protests happened, Park Police, other federal branches were mobilized.
3. As the Capitol was breached, there was no response from the WH and DoD (which Trump stripped the leadership of, mysteriously, right after the election) for hours. Reportedly, people were roaming the Capitol looking specificially to ‘get’ Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.
4. When the order to mobilize the NG was given, it came reportedly from PENCE, not Trump.
5. The secretary of the Army was the one who gave the order to mobilize the MD Guard, not the usual channels.
6. We came pretty close to having a mob take out the next three replacements for the President - the VP, and Speaker.
Of course, this is a bit of a half assed and incompetent coup attempt, which would be exactly what you would expect from an incompetent president.

Seems odd.

I chose:
Yes, Trump was hoping and facilitating it, albeit incompetently.
I Think it was the best choice of the ones given.

I am of the opinion that the Trump supporters are much more militant than Trump himself. Do you recall when the CDC put out the phased re-opening guidelines. It would have been two weeks of phase I followed by assessment and, if there was a decrease, then phase II would be more relaxed followed by the next phase and so on. It was logical and they announced it from the White House. About 4 days later, the Michigan militia stormed the Capitol in Lansing.

Then, as we all know, it mushroomed into an organized effort to kidnap the governor, hold a mock trial, and execute her. The offenders are under arrest at this time.

Did Trump think it would go that far? Probably not. He didn't seem to be concerned about the kidnapping plot however...even making jokes about it. Perhaps that is what happened at the Nation's capitol last Wednesday. Perhaps not. The fact of the matter remains is that every incumbent who has lost the Presidency and every term limited president whose party had lost to the rival party's candidate has taken the defeat with an air of humility and dignity. Not Trump. Had he accepted his defeat on Tuesday, none of what happened on Wednesday would have happened and five people would stilll be alive. Trump is an immature fraction of a man.

 

[Evilroddy]

MaryP:

I am not so worried about the small fry but rather the big fish who are retreating in to the murky waters of public debate. America and Americans have a bad habit of personifying and simplifying the threats to their republic into one or more individuals. This tendency causes them to go after these individuals and when they're got, then to declare mission accomplished, when the job is in truth only half done or even less so. I do not want to see hangings or blanket prosecutions of the little fry. If a case can be made for specific Trump followers at the Capitol breaking the law then I am fine with throwing the book at them after full due process. The folks I want to see exposed and held accountable are the powerful enablers and backers ($) who brought America to this point over the last fifty years. That set of people is far wider and far more dangerous than the subset of Trump and company.

These are authoritarians who wear Red, Blue and Green ($) and who have been building draconian institutions throughout America for a half a century. What institutions? Domestic security and surveillance institutions (both public and private), militarised law enforcement institutions, private armies and mercenary companies operating on American soil, draconian legislation aimed at the American people, secret courts and secret laws, a for-profit private and a runaway public penal system with monstrous powers like Communications Management Units, extra territorial incarceration without judicial review in places like Guantanamo Bay and on ships at sea or black-sites abroad, torture and powers which routinely contravene the allowable limits on the powers of the state by your own very hard-pressed constitution. By way of example of how pervasive this is, one of the men who led the charge to create the laws allowing for civil forfeiture of assets of Americans by agents of the state without having to prove guilt before a court of law or a judge was your president elect, Joseph Biden. That's how pervasive this problem is.

Why are the Patriot Acts still on the books? Who sponsored them and keeps renewing them despite sun-set clauses? These are the authoritarians I am worried about because their mindset is now accepted as the new normal in American life.

Trumpian authoritarianism is only the tip of the iceberg and while it must be dealt with most immediately, it is only the first step in a long and mortally dangerous process of declawing authoritarianism in America. This is much bigger than just one man or one movement.

Cheers, be well and sorry for the rant, but I felt it was necessary.
Evilroddy.

 

[Juks]

Incompetent attempt, by an unqualified President, aided by his incompetent son and a hopefully soon to be disbarred and indicted attorney who put their combined faith in the trailer park crowd to salvage their failed reign of terror on the American people.

I could be cruel, but chose to put this statement in the nicest possible terms.

Don't forget the "war room" they set up. With strategic placed cameras, champange and communications....



and the "war declaration from his sons just before the riot

"We are watching,” Don Jr said."

Trump’s sons declare war on GOP

Don Jr accused the GOP of not doing enough to help his father overturn the election results

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Luther]

It was both an incompetent and disorganized coup attempt, and a terrorist attack.

That said, if terrorists win, they become successful revolutionaries.

*waves hand vaguely at the revolutionary war*

and a terrorist attack.

Like from the unarmed Woman who was shot to death?

 

[Luther]

My view - Trump pointed the crowd at the Capitol - he told them to march on the Capitol - in order to pressure Pence and the Congress to overturn the election result. That to me constitutes an attempt to overthrow the legally elected government.

Does that make it a coup? Depends on the definition of coup - I’ve seen some that say a coup involves the military and others thatjust say overthrowing the government by force.

Sedition is probably a better word because it’s an actual crime under Federal law. And yes it was sedition. Or a coup if you don’t need the military involvement.

- Trump pointed the crowd at the Capitol

Yes, that's usually where protest take place while protesting the Fed Gov

he told them to march on the Capitol

That's NOT going inside(sigh)

 

[Luther]

It was both an incompetent and disorganized coup attempt, and a terrorist attack.

That said, if terrorists win, they become successful revolutionaries.

*waves hand vaguely at the revolutionary war*

That said, if terrorists win, they become successful revolutionaries.

Never thought of our FOUNDERS a terrorist

 

[Antiwar]

MaryP:

I am not so worried about the small fry but rather the big fish who are retreating in to the murky waters of public debate. America and Americans have a bad habit of personifying and simplifying the threats to their republic into one or more individuals. This tendency causes them to go after these individuals and when they're got, then to declare mission accomplished, when the job is in truth only half done or even less so. I do not want to see hangings or blanket prosecutions of the little fry. If a case can be made for specific Trump followers at the Capitol breaking the law then I am fine with throwing the book at them after full due process. The folks I want to see exposed and held accountable are the powerful enablers and backers ($) who brought America to this point over the last fifty years. That set of people is far wider and far more dangerous than the subset of Trump and company.

These are authoritarians who wear Red, Blue and Green ($) and who have been building draconian institutions throughout America for a half a century. What institutions? Domestic security and surveillance institutions (both public and private), militarised law enforcement institutions, private armies and mercenary companies operating on American soil, draconian legislation aimed at the American people, secret courts and secret laws, a for-profit private and a runaway public penal system with monstrous powers like Communications Management Units, extra territorial incarceration without judicial review in places like Guantanamo Bay and on ships at sea or black-sites abroad, torture and powers which routinely contravene the allowable limits on the powers of the state by your own very hard-pressed constitution. By way of example of how pervasive this is, one of the men who led the charge to create the laws allowing for civil forfeiture of assets of Americans by agents of the state without having to prove guilt before a court of law or a judge was your president elect, Joseph Biden. That's how pervasive this problem is.

Why are the Patriot Acts still on the books? Who sponsored them and keeps renewing them despite sun-set clauses? These are the authoritarians I am worried about because their mindset is now accepted as the new normal in American life.

Trumpian authoritarianism is only the tip of the iceberg and while it must be dealt with most immediately, it is only the first step in a long and mortally dangerous process of declawing authoritarianism in America. This is much bigger than just one man or one movement.

Cheers, be well and sorry for the rant, but I felt it was necessary.
Evilroddy.

Your commentary is excellent when you go deep and wide.

I'm going to offer some thoughts:

America's caricature is Trump; Trump is America's caricature.

America is continually trying to prove it is exceptional, much like a young person might do.

America is an oversimplifying computer (especially for ethical issues). Computers use binary logic (ask yes or no questions). "Garbage in, garbage out" describes the questions that are asked. "Is this issue more complex and complicated?" is not part of the program. Ethics and morals are not considered part of machine language, yet the program is considered to be an ethics and morals decision-maker. The machine is incapable of seeing itself, it has no self-awareness. Example results: Iran bad; Uncle Sam punishing Iran good. Terrorism bad; US militarism good.

The resulting slogans are related by the television. There is a shallow facade of a debate. All sides agree. Commercials play (on the psyche). Business as usual continues.

 

[Antiwar]

...

Cheers, be well and remember we Canadians used to regularly burn down our parliaments but nobody had the bad taste to call those capital bonfires coup d'etats.
Evilroddy.

We need to hear more about this. I suspect that wouldn't fly in modern-day Canada.

If Trump were installed for a second term, I suspect the White House would not fare well.

 

[NWRatCon]

I am not so worried about the small fry but rather the big fish who are retreating in to the murky waters of public debate. America and Americans [Humans] have a bad habit of personifying and simplifying the threats to their republic into one or more individuals. This tendency causes them to go after these individuals and when they're got, then to declare mission accomplished, when the job is in truth only half done or even less so.
....
Trumpian authoritarianism is only the tip of the iceberg and while it must be dealt with most immediately, it is only the first step in a long and mortally dangerous process of declawing authoritarianism in America. This is much bigger than just one man or one movement.

Cheers, be well and sorry for the rant, but I felt it was necessary.
Evilroddy.

I agree with all of the analysis, and made only a small edit in your second sentence for accuracy. I do agree, however, it is endemic in America - and the UK, and Europe, and...

Mostly though, I wanted to highlight your last paragraph for emphasis, especially this: "This is much bigger than just one man or one movement." Authoritarian tendencies have been growing for decades, in particular (but not exclusively*) conservative parties. I single out Ronald Reagan, the Le Pens and Margaret Thatcher as exemplars, but there are dozens of others that have instigated such trends. It has perhaps been too long since the turmoil of the 1920s and 30s that gave rise to identified fascism, but the trend has been rebuilding in both the United States and Europe for decades. It may be in history, but it is not dead. Others have watched this trend with alarm: Trump Is an Authoritarian. So Are Millions of Americans (Politico)

In high school civics we were taught that “American authoritarianism” was an oxymoron. Authoritarianism was a relic of the past. America was a country founded on freedom, steeped in equality and justice, and uniquely immune to it.
We now know that this story is a national fairy tale. As I wrote in Politico nearly a year before Trump’s victory in 2016, the single factor that predicted whether a Republican primary voter supported Trump over his rivals was an inclination to authoritarianism. I published that article based on a national survey taken nearly a year before the presidential election, and it was followed by stories and reports elsewhere on how Trump was stirring up a deep, if often dormant, authoritarian strain in our politics.

So, my friend, you are far from alone in your concern. I share it deeply.

Not all authoritarians are Republicans by any means; in national surveys since 1992, many authoritarians have also self-identified as independents and Democrats. And in the 2008 Democratic primary, the political scientist Marc Hetherington found that authoritarianism mattered more than income, ideology, gender, age and education in predicting whether voters preferred Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. But Hetherington has also found, based on 14 years of polling, that authoritarians have steadily moved from the Democratic to the Republican Party over time. He hypothesizes that the trend began decades ago, as Democrats embraced civil rights, gay rights, employment protections and other political positions valuing freedom and equality.

The One Weird Trait That Predicts Whether You’re a Trump Supporter (Politico, 2016);
The GOP’s Age of Authoritarianism Has Only Just Begun (NYMag, 2016)

Trump is an extreme event, but Trumpism is no fluke. Its weaknesses are fleeting, and its strengths likely to endure. Far from an organization that is “probably headed toward a civil war” — as the Washington Post recently put it, summing up a rapidly congealing consensus — the Republican Party is instead more unified than one might imagine, as well as more dangerous. The accommodations its leaders have made to their erratic and delirious nominee underscore a capacity to go further and lower to maintain their grip on power than anybody understood. More consequentially, the horrors Trump has unleashed are the product of tectonic forces in American politics. Trump has revealed the convergence of two movements more extreme than anything in the free world that may yet threaten the democratic character most Americans take as their birthright.

 

[jakiejakester]

Can you link to any intent communicated by the mob who broke into the capitol building?

I can!

‘Our President Wants Us Here’: The Mob That Stormed the Capitol They came from around the country with different affiliations — QAnon, Proud Boys, elected officials, everyday Americans — united by one allegiance.

 

[jakiejakester]

How about an election coup?

Did you see the gallows?!

I wondered about that. Where did it come from? Was it like a portable playpen that folds into a carry bag? Did the person/people who brought it play by saying "Let's bring the gallows with us it might come in handy?"

 

[DifferentDrummr]

I can!

‘Our President Wants Us Here’: The Mob That Stormed the Capitol They came from around the country with different affiliations — QAnon, Proud Boys, elected officials, everyday Americans — united by one allegiance.

That won't fly with Moonbeam: like the other fascists, he thinks the NY times is nothing but an ultra-liberal bastion of 'fake news.'

 

[FlaMike13]

Antiwar:

An election coup? Not really. The election was two months over and this was what has been a pro forma rubber stamping and a ceremonial tradition. So, no, I don't think anyone actually believed they were going to reverse the election results. This was a riotous protest incited by the president and others as one last show of a mass fit of pique which got badly out of hand.

As to the gallows, perspective can be a tricky thing in both photography and politics. I think you will see that folks would be hard pressed to hang a miniature poodle on this infamous gallows, let alone senators, representatives and others who drew the mob's ire.

View attachment 67312504

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Yes it was a coup. These traitors wanted to find Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence to hang them. They are 2nd and 3rd in the Presidential succession.

 

[post]

I didnt really think so, but as more info comes out, I have to wonder if it wasnt an incompetent attempt.

1. Capitol Police were completely and mysteriously unprepared, even though they knew a large crowd with violent rhetoric was going to be there.
2. Help was refused several times while the event was being planned - the FBI, etc. When the other BLM protests happened, Park Police, other federal branches were mobilized.
3. As the Capitol was breached, there was no response from the WH and DoD (which Trump stripped the leadership of, mysteriously, right after the election) for hours. Reportedly, people were roaming the Capitol looking specificially to ‘get’ Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.
4. When the order to mobilize the NG was given, it came reportedly from PENCE, not Trump.
5. The secretary of the Army was the one who gave the order to mobilize the MD Guard, not the usual channels.
6. We came pretty close to having a mob take out the next three replacements for the President - the VP, and Speaker.
Of course, this is a bit of a half assed and incompetent coup attempt, which would be exactly what you would expect from an incompetent president.

Seems odd.

The American Abyss (Published 2021)

A historian of fascism and political atrocity on Trump, the mob and what comes next.

www.nytimes.com

Jan. 9,

"..Yet for Congress to traduce its basic functions had a price. An elected institution that opposes elections is inviting its own overthrow. Members of Congress who sustained the president’s lie, despite the available and unambiguous evidence, betrayed their constitutional mission. Making his fictions the basis of congressional action gave them flesh. ..

Of course this did make a kind of sense: If the election really had been stolen, as senators and congressmen were themselves suggesting, then how could Congress be allowed to move forward? ..Afterward, eight senators and more than 100 representatives voted for the lie that had forced them to flee their chambers.
...
..Gun sales in 2020 hit an astonishing high. History shows that political violence follows when prominent leaders of major political parties openly embrace paranoia.

Our big lie is typically American, wrapped in our odd electoral system, depending upon our particular traditions of racism. Yet our big lie is also structurally fascist, with its extreme mendacity, its conspiratorial thinking, its reversal of perpetrators and victims and its implication that the world is divided into us and them. To keep it going for four years courts terrorism and assassination..."

The "big lie" resulting in the "stop the steal" uprising is being overthought. Charge appropriately, impeach where that option is appropriate, indict and prosecute everyone else - KISS.

Opinion | Democrats Are Pursuing the Wrong Impeachment Charges Against President Trump

It would be better to make a case around provable facts rather than a matter of judgment.

www.politico.com

Democrats Are Pursuing the Wrong Impeachment Charges Against President Trump
It would be better to make a case around provable facts rather than a matter of judgment.

01/10/2021
Clark D. Cunningham is a professor of legal ethics, constitutional law and legal interpretation at Georgia State University College of Law.
"..
It is also not necessary to characterize the events that transpired as an insurrection, which may strike some as an exaggeration, when the behavior of those who attacked the Capitol fit the federal crime of “seditious conspiracy” (which actually carries twice the ten-year sentence of insurrection). This crime is committed whenever two or more people conspire “by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States,” which is exactly what took place on Wednesday. Also, those who attacked the Capitol did so with the explicit purpose of preventing Congress from carrying out its legal duty to certify the election, thus committing another form of seditious conspiracy: conspiring “by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States.”

Because “seditious conspiracy” perfectly describes the crimes committed on January 6, why not make the straightforward charge that Trump was a party to this conspiracy? Someone can be considered part of a criminal conspiracy even if they did not know “all the details of the crime or all of the members of the conspiracy,” as long as they shared the general objective of the conspiracy, which could be stated in this case as simply as: to use force or the threat of force to prevent Congress and the vice president from counting and announcing certified electoral votes for president on the date and at the time set by law.."

 

[pamak]

No, not by any real definition. For the vast majority of participants it was trespassing. Hopefully they can track down those that engaged in vandalism and physical confrontations with police. Apparently an envelope was stolen as well.

If it is shown that at the time when senators were running for cover, Trump was trying to contact them on the phone to convince them to challenge the election results, what would you say?

As Riot raged at Capitol, Trump Tried to Call Senators to Overturn Election

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuberville-trump-misdialed-capitol-riot/index.html Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani both mistakenly made calls to Republican Sen. Mike Lee as deadly riots were unfolding at the US Capitol earlier this...

debatepolitics.com

Trump first called the personal cell phone of Lee, a Utah Republican, shortly after 2 p.m. ET. At that time the senators had been evacuated from the Senate floor and were in a temporary holding room, as a pro-Trump mob began breaching the Capitol.
Lee picked up the phone and Trump identified himself, and it became clear he was looking for Tuberville and had been given the wrong number. Lee, keeping the President on hold, went to find his colleague and handed Tuberville his phone, telling him the President was on the line and had been trying to reach him.

Tuberville spoke with Trump for less than 10 minutes, with the President trying to convince him to make additional objections to the Electoral College vote in a futile effort to block Congress' certification of President-elect Joe Biden's win, according to a source familiar with the call. The call was cut off because senators were asked to move to a secure location.


Using the mob's threat to make senators more malleable to Trump's wishes should be considered an attempted coup

 

[MSgt]

Yes, it was an attempted coup. It was poorly planned, poorly executed, and had almost no nope of succeeding, but I'm not sure what else you could call it at this point.

The reason the conservative collective on this site have decided to belittle what they were so very silent about as it was occurring, is that the same right-wing propaganda that led their representational morons to do this is now peddling the nonsense that this was actually Antifa and that BLM is the true threat.

There is no shame in them. This is the same phycological stupidity that had them ignoring scandal after scandal when it came to Trump, to the point where they actually ignored a clear case of attempted treason with Ukraine. It was always about denying who they are and what they chose to support in 2016. Today, they do the same thing as they belittle what Trump has done. Always, they play the victim against "the left" in the hopes that this vindicates them and sustains them through the latest disgusting scandal of their making.

 

[Crosscheck]

Yes, it was an attempted coup. It was poorly planned, poorly executed, and had almost no nope of succeeding, but I'm not sure what else you could call it at this point.

but., but , but they had the brightest minds orchestrating this...