was Khabib Nurmagomedov being hateful and mean (not shaking female announcers hand)

[stealthycat]

The question is more nuanced than I think most of us are prepared for. Here is the question I think we need to ask. According to his God, he ought to not shake woman's hands. But what did his God teach about showing respect to others? The question for me isn't whether his God allows it or not. The question is, does he show respect for his God through his actions? My inclination through my own faith is that he does not. To be fair different faith systems but still. It seems to be very hard to say that his God wouldn't want men to shake woman's hands when they're both equal in his God's light.

Muslim God / Muhammed or Christian God ?

two very different teachings, right ?

 

[stealthycat]

Bigotry is not the same a s religious belief. The outcome may be the same but the reasons are different.

Bigotry
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Religious Belief

Religious belief refers to the set of beliefs, practices, principles, values, and teachings that individuals hold based on their faith. It influences culture, shapes morality, and provides a sense of meaning and purpose to people.

both are rooted in beliefs - bigots have beliefs, principles, values etc too ..... its a faith as well in every way isn't it ?

not based on a deity is the difference I guess although I'm not sure if bigots overall are religious or not ???

what does the Bible say about homosexuality ?

 

[Callen]

both are rooted in beliefs - bigots have beliefs, principles, values etc too ..... its a faith as well in every way isn't it ?

not based on a deity is the difference I guess although I'm not sure if bigots overall are religious or not ???

what does the Bible say about homosexuality ?

I've explained the difference between a religious belief and bigotry. If a person chooses to cloak their bigotry as a religious belief based on their faith then not much anyone can do about that.

 

[Juin]

Bigotry is not the same a s religious belief. The outcome may be the same but the reasons are different.

Bigotry
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

Religious Belief

Religious belief refers to the set of beliefs, practices, principles, values, and teachings that individuals hold based on their faith. It influences culture, shapes morality, and provides a sense of meaning and purpose to people.

Bigotry is a Subset less than, or equal to the Set of Beliefs. Bigotry is simply a bad set of beliefs. Religious bigotry is a bad set of religious beliefs.

 

[stealthycat]

I've explained the difference between a religious belief and bigotry. If a person chooses to cloak their bigotry as a religious belief based on their faith then not much anyone can do about that.

how can you sort the liars ?

 

[Juin]

I've explained the difference between a religious belief and bigotry. If a person chooses to cloak their bigotry as a religious belief based on their faith then not much anyone can do about that.

A religious belief can be bigoted. And there are tons of religious beliefs that are bigoted. And do religious belief just occur in nature like rocks and vegetation? No. Each religious belief originated from some individual in the distant past. And could be bigoted if the individual in question was a bigot.

An amusing item popped up into my mind on the rules, regulations, recommendations that guide a Mahometan at prayer. Prayers are valuable and mandatory. Mahomet's Allah loves prayers and demands five a day. So it's important not to have one's prayers disqualified. Which begs the question: what can disqualify a prayer? A dog, a woman and a donkey can. Stay away from dogs, donkeys and women when praying LoL

That sounds to me like a canon that is an insult to dogs, donkeys and women.


Narrated `Aisha:
The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, "Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people)." I said, "You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet (ﷺ) praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him."



That will be Aisha bint abu Bakr. One of Mahomet's many wives. She was bethroted to him at age six. A sore point for Mahometanism in modern times where child marriage is frowned upon. Mahometans bristle when infidels bring up that point. They argue that even though Mahomet secured the bride early, he didn't sample the delicacies until much later.

 

[JMR]

you don't watch the news much ?

This Teacher Was Fired for "Misgendering" a Student. Who Could Be Next?

Last week, a Virginia school board voted unanimously to fire a teacher after he refused to comply with administrators’ orders to use a female student’s preferred masculine pronouns. The student “transitioned” over the summer and began identifying as a man. This latest casualty in the culture...

www.heritage.org

Teacher suspended for refusing to use student's preferred pronouns

A Kansas middle school teacher who was disciplined for refusing to use a student’s preferred first name and gender pronouns is suing the school district.

www.fox13now.com

Christian teacher 'sacked after pupil pronouns row'

The teacher has taken the county council to a tribunal claiming unfair dismissal.

www.bbc.com

Wisconsin teacher suing school district after being fired for not using students' preferred pronouns

This lawsuit filed by a teacher who's been fired for refusing to use transgender student’s pronouns is the first in Wisconsin, but schools in the state have faced a series of legal challenges over transgender rights issues.

www.wpr.org

If the school has a policy that students' are entitled to choose their pronouns, and that "offends" a teacher, the teacher can just not use pronouns concerning that student.

 

[stealthycat]

If the school has a policy that students' are entitled to choose their pronouns, and that "offends" a teacher, the teacher can just not use pronouns concerning that student.

a teacher can just say its part of their religion - like Khabib

if you believe what you believe that trumps offending others, right ?

 

[JMR]

a teacher can just say its part of their religion - like Khabib

if you believe what you believe that trumps offending others, right ?

If a school has a policy that offends your religion, your choice is to work elsewhere. I don't believe religious beliefs need to be played out in public. If public policy offends you, stay home.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

If a school has a policy that offends your religion, your choice is to work elsewhere. I don't believe religious beliefs need to be played out in public. If public policy offends you, stay home.

So, should that be a law, you think? I mean you're proclaiming it like it's pretty strongly iron clad. I think there are other choices than the one you're allowing.

 

[JMR]

So, should that be a law, you think? I mean you're proclaiming it like it's pretty strongly iron clad. I think there are other choices than the one you're allowing.

I'm not interested in making laws. We are a secular society, and sometimes public places are going to have policies that "offend" some religious people. There's no reason to believe your religion gives you the right to flout the policy.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

I'm not interested in making laws. We are a secular society, and sometimes public places are going to have policies that "offend" some religious people. There's no reason to believe your religion gives you the right to flout the policy.

What do you mean by flout the policy? What policy would the religious person be flouting?

 

[Juin]

I'm not interested in making laws. We are a secular society, and sometimes public places are going to have policies that "offend" some religious people. There's no reason to believe your religion gives you the right to flout the policy.

Schools are not religion-free zones. If public places are gonna offend religious people then something has to be done about it.

 

[Juin]

If a school has a policy that offends your religion, your choice is to work elsewhere.

Or sue the school

I don't believe religious beliefs need to be played out in public.

Why not?

If public policy offends you, stay home.

Or get the public policy changed

 

[JMR]

What do you mean by flout the policy? What policy would the religious person be flouting?

For example, the topic that was introduced on this thread....A school policy that allowed students to choose their pronouns, and a teacher who refused to follow the policy because of "religion" I stated the teacher could just not use pronouns, or comply. The choice to offend the student is not available because of teacher's beliefs.

 

[JMR]

Or sue the school





Why not?





Or get the public policy changed

To accommodate which religion?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

For example, the topic that was introduced on this thread....A school policy that allowed students to choose their pronouns, and a teacher who refused to follow the policy because of "religion" I stated the teacher could just not use pronouns, or comply. The choice to offend the student is not available because of teacher's beliefs.

But you are willing for the government to compel the speech of the teacher to go with your beliefs.

Was this not a public school?

 

[Absentglare]

But you are willing for the government to compel the speech of the teacher to go with your beliefs.

Was this not a public school?

You think you should be able to force my tax dollars to pay a teacher who intentionally harasses a student over their gender?

 

[Juin]

To accommodate which religion?

Tu uphold the 1st Amendment rights of the plaintiff

 

[JMR]

But you are willing for the government to compel the speech of the teacher to go with your beliefs.

Was this not a public school?

I am willing to allow school districts to form their policies. Employees are expected to follow the policies. The policies of any school might not align with my beliefs. If I taught in Nebraska and the school policy was to recite the Lord's Prayer every morning I would either do that, or resign. That teacher could refrain from using any pronouns, or resign.

 

[JMR]

Tu uphold the 1st Amendment rights of the plaintiff

How is the teacher's rights disturbed if they have the option to not use any pronouns so NOONE is offended?

 

[Juin]

I am willing to allow school districts to form their policies. Employees are expected to follow the policies. The policies of any school might not align with my beliefs. If I taught in Nebraska and the school policy was to recite the Lord's Prayer every morning I would either do that, or resign. That teacher could refrain from using any pronouns, or resign.

If students in the class notice a teacher is refraining from using the preferred pronoun of a student will that not be an issue?

 

[Juin]

How is the teacher's rights disturbed if they have the option to not use any pronouns so NOONE is offended?

I am not sure it is as easy as that. If some such student confronts the teacher as to why the teacher never used the student's pronoun, but uses the pronouns of all other students; what is the teacher to say? The teacher can lie that the opportunity never came up; or the teacher can say he refrains out of conviction; will the later not be in violation of school policy?

Do the teachers actually have that option or you just figure it goes without saying they are fine if they do not misaddress?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

How is the teacher's rights disturbed if they have the option to not use any pronouns so NOONE is offended?

So the first thing I want to say is I would do exactly the same thing you say you would do. I would either not use pronouns or I would move to another job. In fact, I probably would just use the pronouns they requested.

But I'm not super comfortable with compelling people to speak a certain way.

 

[JMR]

So the first thing I want to say is I would do exactly the same thing you say you would do. I would either not use pronouns or I would move to another job. In fact, I probably would just use the pronouns they requested.

But I'm not super comfortable with compelling people to speak a certain way.

Understood...me too.

Taking this further, assuming the teacher in this school is supplied with the preferred pronouns of all the students, how would the teacher determine which pronouns they honor and which they don't? Is it always obvious? Does that matter?