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Want to Solve Illegal Immigration? Here's Two Ways.

Glen Contrarian

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Over the past few years, illegal immigration has dropped to net zero. So how did this happen? Our economy sucked for a while, and it's still not good. It's the same story all over the world - when the economy on one side of the border is a lot better than the economy on the other side of the border, there will be people (legal or not) streaming from the bad to the good regardless of walls or soldiers. This is human nature.

So the solutions to illegal immigration are obvious: either make America's economy suck, or improve Mexico's economy.
 

Fisher

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I agree. All the bailouts should have required that the otherwise bankrupt companies move to Mexico, beginning with GM.
 

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OR, take the money incentive away. We currently do asset seizure for drugs, why not do it for illegals. No more catch and release. When they are caught - seize all their assets and use them to fund their deportation.
 

radcen

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...essentially, remove the incentives. We could also accomplish the same thing by punishing those who employ illegal immigrants and remove birthright citizenship.
 

Ray410

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Important to consider that nobody actually believes that Illegal Immigration has dropped to zero. If at all.

Jeb Bush should be saying "Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?"
 

jamesrage

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Over the past few years, illegal immigration has dropped to net zero. So how did this happen? Our economy sucked for a while, and it's still not good. It's the same story all over the world - when the economy on one side of the border is a lot better than the economy on the other side of the border, there will be people (legal or not) streaming from the bad to the good regardless of walls or soldiers. This is human nature.

So the solutions to illegal immigration are obvious: either make America's economy suck, or improve Mexico's economy.

Actually the obvious solutions are the following-

1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.


These solutions would make it extremely hard for illegals to get a job and for illegals to profit from their illegal residence in the US.
 

Master PO

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Actually the obvious solutions are the following-

1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.


These solutions would make it extremely hard for illegals to get a job and for illegals to profit from their illegal residence in the US.

these are good ideas, however we are still faced with a problem according to a constitutional judge, he stated that the USSC has ruled that illegals should also be able to receive government hand-outs.
 

radcen

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Actually the obvious solutions are the following-

1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

-enroll yourself into school
-enroll your minor kids into school
-apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
-get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
-open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
-rent,borrow,lease or buy property
-rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
-get legal documents for yourself or your children.
-get utilities

3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.


These solutions would make it extremely hard for illegals to get a job and for illegals to profit from their illegal residence in the US.

Sounds good on the surface, but it's overkill. Turns us into a "papers please" police state where we have to provide documentation for every mundane transaction. We need to ensure that we're not so overly emotionally invested in the issue that we end up making our own lives more difficult every time we simply want to buy a soda at a convenience store with our credit card.
 

jamesrage

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Sounds good on the surface, but it's overkill. Turns us into a "papers please" police state where we have to provide documentation for every mundane transaction. We need to ensure that we're not so overly emotionally invested in the issue that we end up making our own lives more difficult every time we simply want to buy a soda at a convenience store with our credit card.

These are not mundane transactions. Most of those are things you should have to show a ID in order to get or use. If you get some sort of business or law license you should actually have to prove who you say you are.If you are buying a car you should prove that you can legally drive in that state.If you are sticking your kids in school you should prove that you and your children are a residents.If you are here illegally you shouldn't be able to freely walk in or out of any government office. Buying things with credit cards should be no different than buying things with a check in a store.Which means they check to see if are actually the check writer and they check to see if funds are available,This is done so that the the business is not ripped off and that the person's money is not stolen.Seeing how credit card companies charge businesses to process credit cards then you are really douchbag for using a credit card to buy such a trivial item such as soda with a credit card.
 

radcen

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These are not mundane transactions. Most of those are things you should have to show a ID in order to get or use. If you get some sort of business or law license you should actually have to prove who you say you are.If you are buying a car you should prove that you can legally drive in that state.If you are sticking your kids in school you should prove that you and your children are a residents.If you are here illegally you shouldn't be able to freely walk in or out of any government office. Buying things with credit cards should be no different than buying things with a check in a store.Which means they check to see if are actually the check writer and they check to see if funds are available,This is done so that the the business is not ripped off and that the person's money is not stolen.Seeing how credit card companies charge businesses to process credit cards then you are really douchbag for using a credit card to buy such a trivial item such as soda with a credit card.

Credit card merchant agreements preclude ID checking. Businesses that do do it are violating their agreement. The soda was just an example. Get over it.

If I don't have a license and want to buy a car and have it sit and collect dust in my garage that should be my right as a free person.

You post convinces me even more that you're so emotionally involved with this particular issue that you're willing to give up many of your own freedoms and rights simply to "stick to them illegals". Reminds me of that old cliche about cutting off one's own nose to spite one's face.
 

jamesrage

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Credit card merchant agreements preclude ID checking. Businesses that do do it are violating their agreement. The soda was just an example. Get over it.
THis is only true if you did not sign the back of your card.Even then this still does not stop many places from asking for a ID.

[/QUOTE]
If I don't have a license and want to buy a car and have it sit and collect dust in my garage that should be my right as a free person.

You post convinces me even more that you're so emotionally involved with this particular issue that you're willing to give up many of your own freedoms and rights simply to "stick to them illegals". Reminds me of that old cliche about cutting off one's own nose to spite one's face
Again most of those things on the list are things you should already being showing an ID or driver's license to get.Cashing a check, using a credit card, using tax payer funded services,using tax payer funded aid, enrolling yourself or kids into school, getting a car, and etc. Showing an ID is not big deal.This isn't the 1950s where hardly anyone had a ID, so most people either have a state issued ID or state issued driver's license. This isn't asking for ID to cross the street,pay for things with cash, or every other mundane things.
 

molten_dragon

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...essentially, remove the incentives. We could also accomplish the same thing by punishing those who employ illegal immigrants and remove birthright citizenship.

This has always been my preferred solution to illegal immigration. Quit going after the immigrants themselves, quit trying to prevent them from crossing the border in the first place. Instead go after companies that hire illegal immigrants, and punish them harshly. If you take away the jobs they're coming here for, most of the problem will go away.

That kind of thing has been proven to work in the past. Liquor stores are a good example. Back when my dad was a kid, it was almost unheard of for liquor stores to card people, since if they were caught selling to people who were underage, it was just a fine, and most of them made more money selling to the kids than they lost on the occasional fine. But then the penalties got harsher, fines went up and now you can lose your liquor license for selling to minors, and pretty much every place that sells liquor checks ID now.
 

year2late

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...essentially, remove the incentives. We could also accomplish the same thing by punishing those who employ illegal immigrants and remove birthright citizenship.

Exactly.

Of course the employers should be targeted first and foremost. Without jobs the incentive is gone,
 

Glen Contrarian

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Glen Contrarian

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Everyone here has their own ideas on how to fix the illegal immigration problem, but in every case, they're trying to fix the symptoms rather than fixing the problem. It DOES NOT MATTER how hard America tries to make it on illegals - short of concentration camps (which some conservatives would probably love to see anyway) - as long as America's economy is significantly better than that of Mexico, as long as the drug gangs rule in Mexico, we WILL have an illegal immigration problem.

Think on this: you've got a family, and you want to see your children live to grow to be adults with children of their own, right? But you're stuck in a poverty-wracked nation where the drug gangs use and kill people with impunity...and just across that border is a much richer nation where (despite all our gun nuts) your children are much less likely to get kidnapped or shot. WOULD YOU REALLY CARE that it's illegal for you to be there, if it's that much of a safer place for your children?

Would you?

I don't think so.

If you want to solve the illegal immigration problem, (1) legalize drugs to take the money away from the drug gangs, and (2) help Mexico get their economy on track. Otherwise we will always, always, ALWAYS have an illegal immigration problem regardless of what we try to do to make life miserable here for them.
 

Fisher

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Everyone here has their own ideas on how to fix the illegal immigration problem, but in every case, they're trying to fix the symptoms rather than fixing the problem. It DOES NOT MATTER how hard America tries to make it on illegals - short of concentration camps (which some conservatives would probably love to see anyway) - as long as America's economy is significantly better than that of Mexico, as long as the drug gangs rule in Mexico, we WILL have an illegal immigration problem.

Think on this: you've got a family, and you want to see your children live to grow to be adults with children of their own, right? But you're stuck in a poverty-wracked nation where the drug gangs use and kill people with impunity...and just across that border is a much richer nation where (despite all our gun nuts) your children are much less likely to get kidnapped or shot. WOULD YOU REALLY CARE that it's illegal for you to be there, if it's that much of a safer place for your children?

Would you?

I don't think so.

If you want to solve the illegal immigration problem, (1) legalize drugs to take the money away from the drug gangs, and (2) help Mexico get their economy on track. Otherwise we will always, always, ALWAYS have an illegal immigration problem regardless of what we try to do to make life miserable here for them.

Or you could just make all immigration legal and therefore there are no illegal immigrants and the illegal immigration problem is solved with the scribble of a pen.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Or you could just make all immigration legal and therefore there are no illegal immigrants and the illegal immigration problem is solved with the scribble of a pen.

On the one hand that's humorously true...but on the other hand, in real life it's politically impossible.
 

jamesrage

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Everyone here has their own ideas on how to fix the illegal immigration problem, but in every case, they're trying to fix the symptoms rather than fixing the problem. It DOES NOT MATTER how hard America tries to make it on illegals - short of concentration camps (which some conservatives would probably love to see anyway) - as long as America's economy is significantly better than that of Mexico, as long as the drug gangs rule in Mexico,

What a lie. When states made it harder for illegals those illegals fled to states where it is easy for them to live.

we WILL have an illegal immigration problem.
If we crack down on the scum who hire illegals make it nearly impossible for someone to live here illegally then our illegal immigration will drop to a trickle. Illegals will not stay where they can't get jobs,get a place to rent, I enroll their kids into school,tax payer aid, and can't exploit any other resource .

Think on this: you've got a family, and you want to see your children live to grow to be adults with children of their own, right? But you're stuck in a poverty-wracked nation where the drug gangs use and kill people with impunity...and just across that border is a much richer nation where (despite all our gun nuts) your children are much less likely to get kidnapped or shot. WOULD YOU REALLY CARE that it's illegal for you to be there, if it's that much of a safer place for your children?
Would you?

I don't think so.


If you need a job then you are not going to move to somewhere you can't get a job.If your kids need education you are not going to move somewhere you can't enroll your kids into school. Its why states with anti-illegal immigration laws have a lot less illegals than sanctuary states.Contrary to popular belief not all of Mexico is a gang infested ****hole.

If you want to solve the illegal immigration problem, (1) legalize drugs to take the money away from the drug gangs, and (2) help Mexico get their economy on track. Otherwise we will always, always, ALWAYS have an illegal immigration problem regardless of what we try to do to make life miserable here for them.

We do not need to do that.We crack down on the scum who hire illegals and we make it nearly impossible for illegals to live and profit here.Thus you remove their reason for coming and staying here illegally.
 

Glen Contrarian

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We do not need to do that.We crack down on the scum who hire illegals and we make it nearly impossible for illegals to live and profit here.Thus you remove their reason for coming and staying here illegally.

Whatever. You're indulging in your own Tea-Party-infused fantasy. If you knew these people half as well as I have both personally and professionally, you'd know better than to buy off on your "make it hell for them" fantasy.

Oh, but I forgot. You're an American, and that means (in your eyes) that illegals are neither good nor smart nor educated nor resourceful - they're all just useless scum-of-the-earth to you.
 

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Whatever. You're indulging in your own Tea-Party-infused fantasy.

I am not indulging in anything. I am looking at this logically.

If you knew these people half as well as I have both personally and professionally, you'd know better than to buy off on your "make it hell for them" fantasy.

Oh, but I forgot. You're an American, and that means (in your eyes) that illegals are neither good nor smart nor educated nor resourceful - they're all just useless scum-of-the-earth to you.
Its not a matter of intelligence,resourcefulness or education. Its a matter of enforcement and making sure state workers and financial institutions do not help illegals and making sure no one hires illegals. Currently our punishments for hiring illegals is a ****en joke.When the liquor stores and other businesses that sell or serve alcohol were faced with their licenses being revoked,serious fines and in some cases jail time they started checking IDs. If no one is hiring illegals then it doesn't matter how intelligent, resourceful or educated that illegal is. Because due to the seriousness of the punishments employers will do everything they can to make sure they are not hiring illegals.
 

Glen Contrarian

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I am not indulging in anything. I am looking at this logically.


Its not a matter of intelligence,resourcefulness or education. Its a matter of enforcement and making sure state workers and financial institutions do not help illegals and making sure no one hires illegals. Currently our punishments for hiring illegals is a ****en joke.When the liquor stores and other businesses that sell or serve alcohol were faced with their licenses being revoked,serious fines and in some cases jail time they started checking IDs. If no one is hiring illegals then it doesn't matter how intelligent, resourceful or educated that illegal is. Because due to the seriousness of the punishments employers will do everything they can to make sure they are not hiring illegals.

And what happens to America when we have to carry our identification all the time for all transactions, all interactions with all institutions public or private? Be careful what you ask for, guy, because that's a clear and accurate description of a "papers please" police state.

Not only that, but what do you do with all the homeless - most of whom are QUITE American - who have no documentation? And what about the elderly who sometimes don't have birth certificates? And what about the developmentally disabled who won't quite understand why they're being asked repeatedly for ID cards? And what about those people who may have simply lost their identification? And let's not forget that there's some real a-holes out there - like ex-husbands - who'd see this as a great opportunity to screw up their wives' ID cards to set them up for deportation.

In other words, guy, you'd be opening a can of worms, a Pandora's box - and do we really want to go down that road of becoming a "papers please" nation? Do we really? I sure as hell don't.

You don't fix a problem by making a bigger problem. The way to FIX this problem so that it doesn't hurt our personal freedom is to help Mexico get their economy on track. Once we do that, illegal immigration drops like a rock.
 

jamesrage

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And what happens to America when we have to carry our identification all the time for all transactions, all interactions with all institutions public or private? Be careful what you ask for, guy, because that's a clear and accurate description of a "papers please" police state.

Not only that, but what do you do with all the homeless - most of whom are QUITE American - who have no documentation? And what about the elderly who sometimes don't have birth certificates? And what about the developmentally disabled who won't quite understand why they're being asked repeatedly for ID cards? And what about those people who may have simply lost their identification? And let's not forget that there's some real a-holes out there - like ex-husbands - who'd see this as a great opportunity to screw up their wives' ID cards to set them up for deportation.

In other words, guy, you'd be opening a can of worms, a Pandora's box - and do we really want to go down that road of becoming a "papers please" nation? Do we really? I sure as hell don't.

You don't fix a problem by making a bigger problem. The way to FIX this problem so that it doesn't hurt our personal freedom is to help Mexico get their economy on track. Once we do that, illegal immigration drops like a rock.

Again save the false nazi analogy for some other thread. The things on my list are things we either already show ID for and things we should be showing ID or driver's license for.
 

radcen

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Again save the false nazi analogy for some other thread. The things on my list are things we either already show ID for and things we should be showing ID or driver's license for.
Your willingness to put yourself in a little restrictive box, for nothing but spite and from which you will gain nothing extra, is nothing but emotional knee-jerk reactionism.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Again save the false nazi analogy for some other thread. The things on my list are things we either already show ID for and things we should be showing ID or driver's license for.

You really don't want to answer what to do with all those natural-born Americans who can't prove they're American, huh?
 
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