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Want to Solve Illegal Immigration? Here's Two Ways.

You really don't want to answer what to do with all those natural-born Americans who can't prove they're American, huh?
What you say is a load of nonsense because their birth certificates are stored in their state of birth.
 
Your willingness to put yourself in a little restrictive box, for nothing but spite and from which you will gain nothing extra, is nothing but emotional knee-jerk reactionism.


Again most of the things on my list are either things you already have to show an ID for or things you should have to show an ID for. I am not putting myself in a little restrictive box.Spite has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with only ensuring that it is extremely hard for illegals to live here , profit here and exploit tax payer resources.
 
What you say is a load of nonsense because their birth certificates are stored in their state of birth.

Not always - especially for those who are born at home, or born to people who can't afford a hospital, or to teenagers who don't realize that they're supposed to go get a birth certificate for the child.

In other words, it's a mistake to see things in terms of black and white - it's always shades of gray, and when it comes to humanity, it's 7B+ shades of gray.
 
What you say is a load of nonsense because their birth certificates are stored in their state of birth.

Here's some more information:

Exact numbers of Americans erroneously held by immigration authorities are hard to come by, since they are not systematically recorded. In one study, 82 people who were held for deportation from 2006 to 2008 at two immigration detention centers in Arizona, for periods as long as a year, were freed after immigration judges determined that they were American citizens.

Eighty-two citizens were wrongfully held because they couldn't prove their citizenship - in one state. In fact, the same article will give you examples of people who did have a birth certificate and even a passport and were still held.
 
Here's some more information:

Exact numbers of Americans erroneously held by immigration authorities are hard to come by, since they are not systematically recorded. In one study, 82 people who were held for deportation from 2006 to 2008 at two immigration detention centers in Arizona, for periods as long as a year, were freed after immigration judges determined that they were American citizens.

Eighty-two citizens were wrongfully held because they couldn't prove their citizenship - in one state. In fact, the same article will give you examples of people who did have a birth certificate and even a passport and were still held.

So you are talking about a trickle amount of Americans.
 
Not always - especially for those who are born at home, or born to people who can't afford a hospital, or to teenagers who don't realize that they're supposed to go get a birth certificate for the child.

In other words, it's a mistake to see things in terms of black and white - it's always shades of gray, and when it comes to humanity, it's 7B+ shades of gray.



IN such cases there is a a "No Record Birth Certificate (NRBC)" also known as "Non-Availability Birth Certificate (NABC)", or "affidavit Birth certificate".
 
Again most of the things on my list are either things you already have to show an ID for or things you should have to show an ID for. I am not putting myself in a little restrictive box.Spite has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with only ensuring that it is extremely hard for illegals to live here , profit here and exploit tax payer resources.

You also want to add to the things that would be more difficult than necessary for yourself to do. You can spin it however you want, but your words and attempts at explanation tell otherwise. You're willing to hinder your own life to an unnecessary degree to "stick it to" those you disapprove of.

I don't like illegal immigration either, but your proposals take away the entire point of living in a supposedly free society. No thank you. Not to that degree. I'd rather remain as free as possible and put up with a small amount of illegal immigration. Prosecuting law-breaking employers and ending birthright citizenship will solve the vast majority of the problem.
 
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Again most of the things on my list are either things you already have to show an ID for or things you should have to show an ID for. I am not putting myself in a little restrictive box.Spite has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with only ensuring that it is extremely hard for illegals to live here , profit here and exploit tax payer resources.

How are you going to enforce all this paper checking? PEA... Papers Enforcement Agency? Complete with drones and helicopters and armored cars and a new set of SWAT teams? Brand new shiny building in the DC suburbs? Undercover paperless purchase attempts at gas stations in Montana at 3am?
 
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You also want to add to the things that would be more difficult than necessary for yourself to do.

No they wouldn't.

You can spin it however you want, but your words and attempts at explanation tell otherwise. You're willing to hinder your own life to an unnecessary degree to "stick it to" those you disapprove of.

My life would not be hindered. It takes a few seconds to show an ID.

I don't like illegal immigration either, but your proposals take away the entire point of living in a supposedly free society. No thank you. Not to that degree. I'd rather remain as free as possible and put up with a small amount of illegal immigration.
My proposals do no such thing.You are merely exaggerating.

Prosecuting law-breaking employers

Not all illegals are here for work.
and ending birthright citizenship will solve the vast majority of the problem.

Ending the part in the INS act of 1965 that allows for chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children would be a lot easier than amending the section 1 of the 14th amendment or having the SCOTUS actually go by the intentions of the author of the 14th amendment and make it not apply to the children of illegals.
 
How are you going to enforce all this paper checking? PEA... Papers Enforcement Agency? Complete with drones and helicopters and armored cars and a new set of SWAT teams? Brand new shiny building in the DC suburbs? Undercover paperless purchase attempts at gas stations in Montana at 3am?
The same way we make sure stores check for IDs regarding liquor and tobacco sales.
 
The same way we make sure stores check for IDs regarding liquor and tobacco sales.

...which requires enforcement and random checks to verify that businesses comply. Would you favor yet another layer of bureaucracy to enforce this?
 
...which requires enforcement and random checks to verify that businesses comply. Would you favor yet another layer of bureaucracy to enforce this?

Its not that hard to send in someone with a hidden cam and without a ID or driver's license to a bank, real estate office, a state office where you can sign up for tax payer aid/services or any other thing on my list. They do with it businesses that serve and or sell alcohol and tobacco products. They send in kids,adults not old enough yet to purchase alcohol and adults over 21 who look young to see if they can purchase cigarettes or beer. With my ideas in effect you would be merely expanding law enforcement duties of those who check to see if business are checking IDs for alcohol and tobacco products. Any additional anti-illegal immigration laws will require "another layer of bureaucracy",so you are not really making much of a counter argument.
 
IN such cases there is a a "No Record Birth Certificate (NRBC)" also known as "Non-Availability Birth Certificate (NABC)", or "affidavit Birth certificate".

And how many elderly and homeless would know about such things, much less have the wherewithal to go get them?
 
What's happening here is that 'jamesrage' has been presented with a real solution of how to really cut way down on illegal immigration (by helping Mexico make their own economy better). He'd rather 'solve' the problem by making their life hell here.

My way is using a carrot in addition to the stick that already exists. His way is all stick...and he refuses to comprehend how his proposals would hurt not just illegal immigrants (and especially their children) but the American way of life as a whole.

"Papers, please!"
 
And how many elderly and homeless would know about such things, much less have the wherewithal to go get them?

Actually it is not that hard to get one. If you ever lost a birth certificate you would know it is easy to fill out a form,with SS number send it into the state of your birth department of records. Besides that how many homeless use those things on my list on post #6? All the elderly people I know have IDs or driver's license,so they would not be inconvenienced by having to show ID or drivers license.
 
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And how many elderly and homeless would know about such things, much less have the wherewithal to go get them?

All of them. A call or visit to the county clerks and they would be provided with all the options. In the case of the elderly and the indigent, in the western states that I'm familiar with at least, all fees are waived.

No, you can't just sit on your couch and have your need psychically assessed by the state and documents magically appear before you. But as I said, one call or one visit to the local government office and you'll not only be provided with all the info you need but a bunch of assisstance if you need as well.
 
What's happening here is that 'jamesrage' has been presented with a real solution of how to really cut way down on illegal immigration (by helping Mexico make their own economy better). He'd rather 'solve' the problem by making their life hell here.

.Amazing how one post you are claiming my ideas wouldn't work and that illegals would bypass such things and the next you are claiming those things would make life hell. Seems to me once your claim "they wouldn't work" wasn't convincing anyone so you changed strategy by blowing **** out of proportion, claiming it make life too difficult and using bogus nazi comparisons.

My way is using a carrot in addition to the stick that already exists. His way is all stick...and he refuses to comprehend how his proposals would hurt not just illegal immigrants (and especially their children) but the American way of life as a whole.

They would not hurt the American way of life.Almost everybody has a ID or driver's license.It is not going to hurt any American to show their ID to enroll themselves or their children into school.It is not going to hurt any American to show ID to use tax payer aid.It is not going to hurt any American to show ID to cash a check,use a credit card, wire money, open a account or get a loan.It is not going to hurt any American to show ID or driver's license to rent,sell,lease or borrow a motor vehicle or a home. It is not going to hurt any American to show ID to get legal documents or to get utilities turned on. Most of these things are things you have to show ID for and things you should already have to show ID for.

"Papers, please!"

Again save the nazi comparisons for another forum.
 
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As far as difficulty in obtaining birth certs for elderly and some other people... we could phase in requirements over 5 yrs or so, if needed. Anybody, literally, can get the necessary documentation within 5 yrs if it's important enough to them.
 
All of them. A call or visit to the county clerks and they would be provided with all the options. In the case of the elderly and the indigent, in the western states that I'm familiar with at least, all fees are waived.

No, you can't just sit on your couch and have your need psychically assessed by the state and documents magically appear before you. But as I said, one call or one visit to the local government office and you'll not only be provided with all the info you need but a bunch of assisstance if you need as well.

Um, no, you're quite wrong. I run an adult family home for the elderly and for the developmentally disabled...and no, you're not going to get these people to go to the county clerks. There's millions of such people all across America...and these are the people who would be affected.
 
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