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[W:913]Us pro-lifers have got to stop using the religious argument for being against this...

eman926

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife
 

Aunt Antifa

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

There is no scientific argument against a safe and effective medical treatment.
 

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

why not?


myturnbalmer-cmforum-090620-ph02
 

eman926

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There is no scientific argument against a safe and effective medical treatment.

You’ve gotten scientific arguments, but to lefties like you, no amount of evidence will convince you. At least half of the patients in abortion die, and sometimes the woman dies too, or becomes seriously injured, or sterile.


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Aunt Antifa

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You’ve gotten scientific arguments, but to lefties like you, no amount of evidence will convince you. At least half of the patients in abortion die, and sometimes the woman dies too, or becomes seriously injured, or sterile.


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If only half the fetuses we are aborting are dying, then we need doctors that are better trained. If a fetus survives an abortion, the doctor ****ed up.
 

eman926

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If only half the fetuses we are aborting are dying, then we need doctors that are better trained. If a fetus survives an abortion, the doctor ****ed up.

You just said ”DYING” and ”SURVIVED”, proving my point. Women can die from having abortions too.


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Aunt Antifa

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You just said ”DYING” and ”SURVIVED”, proving my point. Women can die from having abortions too.


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Sure they can. There is an element of risk in any surgical procedure. That’s not ripping the lid off anything.

I have no problem with telling you that a) I believe fetuses are living things and b) I have no problem with women deciding to suck the little leeches right the **** out of their bodies.

I made that decision for myself years ago. I have no regrets.
 

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

Even from a secular standpoint, there is no reason to violate a woman's right to body autonomy and grant a fetus special rights no other person has.
 

Dayton3

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Sure they can. There is an element of risk in any surgical procedure. That’s not ripping the lid off anything.

I have no problem with telling you that a) I believe fetuses are living things and b) I have no problem with women deciding to suck the little leeches right the **** out of their bodies.

I made that decision for myself years ago. I have no regrets.

So we can discount your opinion due to obvious biases based on self justification.
 

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

No need for a Secular Pro-Life organization. There's already an organization for them. In fact it covers everyone, secular pro-life, religious pro-life, atheists pro and anti life, old men, old women, teens, vegans, omnivores, unionists, Northerners, Southerners, East Coast, West Coast, Middle America, Republican, Democrat, liberals, conservatives, Antifa, Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer. EVERYBODY!!!

What's the name of this all inclusive organization? It's called Pro-Choice, everybody gets to choose what is best for them and nobody tries to change your mind and guilt you into something you aren't comfortable with, nobody is trying to pass laws to limit your choice to what one group thinks, nobody is trying to take away from you your right to do what you think is right: Pro-Choice, your choice, you own choice.
 

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Aunt Antifa

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So we can discount your opinion due to obvious biases based on self justification.

I don’t feel I need any justification. Why in the world do I need justification?
 

Aunt Antifa

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There's no case made in this article. The closest it comes is saying "Abortion advocates would never murder a defenseless sleeping or comatose person—yet they argue that because children in the womb lack consciousness, killing them is permissible." A blatant straw man that attempts to equate two totally different things is not a "case." Not even close.

It’s also intellectually dubious. We do “murder” defenseless sleeping or comatose people every day in this country. Families in consultation with their doctors make decisions on DNR, pulling plugs, etc.

This is my main argument for abortion. We absolutely make these choices every single day. Look at covid. The conservative position on the virus has been that unfortunately these thigns happen, and if the weaker among us suffer or die, that’s just nature. I don’t understand why I must be pragmatic about 190k Americans but a fetus that has zero value must be weighed not only as its own entity, but ABOVE the body carrying it.

There is no good pro-life argument from a scientific or logical standpoint. It will always be related to religious dogma because at the end of the day what justification could anyone possibly make that a fetus should have special status over any other living thing on this planet.

Ridiculous superstition.
 

Aunt Antifa

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Almost everyone feels the need to believe they have done the right thing

I don’t apply right or wrong to a medical procedure. I’m not a superstitious person.
 

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

What scientific studies are you talking about? The articles mentioned in Secular Profiles are all about giving the fetus rights by denying women the right to make personal decisions about her own private life. Nobody has yet answered the question of "Why are women and their families less human than a fetus?". The pro-life movement, religious or secular is actually an anti-family organization.
 

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

It would be nice if you would address the direct questions in the other threads before posting a new thread...it would save some time and typing. Because the answers will come down to the same thing. I've posted regarding science and abortion a couple of times in your threads and you didnt respond. So have others addressed the science.

Let's see YOUR science-based view/argument against abortion. The link does not speak for you.



This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 

CLAX1911

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We should include all people because not everybody is going to respond to religious arguments. Maybe use some scientific studies. Or even include sources like this one below...

Home | secularprolife

I don't know what the religious argument is. It's either wrong to abort your baby or it's not. We kind of thing seems to transcend religion.
 

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You’ve gotten scientific arguments, but to lefties like you, no amount of evidence will convince you. At least half of the patients in abortion die, and sometimes the woman dies too, or becomes seriously injured, or sterile.

And yet, if a woman cant afford or care for a child, why should she stay pregnant and go thru childbirth, which is so much MORE dangerous?

Abortion is 14 times safer than pregnancy

Abortion safer than giving birth: study - Reuters


NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Getting a legal abortion is much safer than giving birth, suggests a new U.S. study published Monday.

Researchers found that women were about 14 times more likely to die during or after giving birth to a live baby than to die from complications of an abortion.

Please note that I included a quote from the link that supports my position. I recommend this technique in discussions.


This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 

Lursa

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So we can discount your opinion due to obvious biases based on self justification.

Who else's biases should be used to justify violating a woman's rights and bodily autonomy?

Who else besides the individual woman should decide?



This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 

Tlrmln

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I don't know what the religious argument is. It's either wrong to abort your baby or it's not. We kind of thing seems to transcend religion.

Believe it or not, different people have different ideas about what's right or wrong. They often don't have rational reasons for their positions. This is especially true of the religious.
 

CLAX1911

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Believe it or not, different people have different ideas about what's right or wrong. They often don't have rational reasons for their positions. This is especially true of the religious.

Sure on the little things like birth control and eating pork. But if you have different ideas on the morality of killing people that's considered a mental disorder.
 

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The author of this article established her Secular Pro-Life (SPL) organization in college. She grew up aa a Methodist. She claims to be an atheist, and she may be but she is not non-religious. She is either affiliated with or supports religion based organization.

Her pro-life belief is is based on the religious belief that the life of the fetus is sacred human life and should not be "killed". She supports Catholic and evangelical crisis pregnancy centers. She attended 40Days of Life a religion based organization to learn sidewalk counseling which relies heavily on vocal praying at abortion clients.

She is against contraceptives that Catholics and evangelicals consider abortifacients and against fetal testing for genetic defects in order to abort, even when the birth will result in a child so impaired that their life will be constant pain, stimuli that it cannot understand and a world of chaos. This is not pro-life. This is just the same old " forced birth" dressed up to look like something new and different. It isn't.

Ms Hazzard is also completely unrealistic, "I firmly believe we can end abortion in my lifetime." How?
 
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