[W:913]Us pro-lifers have got to stop using the religious argument for being against this...

[Noodlegawd]

morality of killing people

Begging the question. Try again.

 

[CLAX1911]

Begging the question. Try again.

How is that begging the question?

 

[CLAX1911]

Begging the question. Try again.

So you can't explain how it's curricular reasoning. You're just squawking out fallacy as though it's an argument.

 

[weaver2]

Sure on the little things like birth control and eating pork. But if you have different ideas on the morality of killing people that's considered a mental disorder.

The world abounds in different ideas about the morality of killing people. Your religion tells you there is only one morality, but, your religion isn't my religion. Why should you have the right to make your religion into laws that I have to follow? Your religion says the fetus has legal a legal right to life. Mine says it doesn't. Is there a solution?

Yes, the solution is to let every body believe what they want about the fetus and act accordingly. It's called pro-choice. You choose what is best for you to believe and I don't interfere in your right to give life to the fetus in birth and you don't interfere in my right to get an abortion. Everybody's rights and religion and beliefs are safe and preserved. Nobody is forced to do something they don't believe is right.

Problem solved.

 

[CLAX1911]

The world abounds in different ideas about the morality of killing people. Your religion tells you there is only one morality, but, your religion isn't my religion. Why should you have the right to make your religion into laws that I have to follow?

So if you go over to your naighbors house and murder his wife you should be allowed to do that because laws against murder come from a religious place?

Your religion says the fetus has legal a legal right to life. Mine says it doesn't. Is there a solution?

My religion doesn't say anything about fetuses or legalities at all.

My opinion on abortion is based on secular morality and science.

Yes, the solution is to let every body believe what they want about the fetus and act accordingly. It's called pro-choice. You choose what is best for you to believe and I don't interfere in your right to give life to the fetus in birth and you don't interfere in my right to get an abortion. Everybody's rights and religion and beliefs are safe and preserved. Nobody is forced to do something they don't believe is right.

So women have no choice in being impregnated?

 

[Noodlegawd]

How is that begging the question?

So you can't explain how it's curricular reasoning. You're just squawking out fallacy as though it's an argument.

Wow, 2 responses to a single post. I feel so special.

It's begging the question because one of the fundamental issues in the abortion rights debate is whether and when human embryos/fetuses are or become "people."

 

[weaver2]

So if you go over to your naighbors house and murder his wife you should be allowed to do that because laws against murder come from a religious place? My religion doesn't say anything about fetuses or legalities at all.
My opinion on abortion is based on secular morality and science.
So women have no choice in being impregnated?

Your. opinions seem random, chaotic and silly.If you expect a response you'll have to think harder.

 

[CLAX1911]

Wow, 2 responses to a single post. I feel so special.

It's begging the question because one of the fundamental issues in the abortion rights debate is whether and when human embryos/fetuses are or become "people."

You misunderstand. When I pointed to morality against killing people I wasn't saying fetuses were people. You jumped to a conclusion.

We'll try this again. Moralities vary in details like eating pork and working on the Sabbath. But not things like theft.

 

[soylentgreen]

You misunderstand. When I pointed to morality against killing people I wasn't saying fetuses were people. You jumped to a conclusion.

We'll try this again. Moralities vary in details like eating pork and working on the Sabbath. But not things like theft.

Is stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family immoral?

 

[CLAX1911]

Your. opinions seem random, chaotic and silly.If you expect a response you'll have to think harder.

Your opinions about my opinions are noted. You haven't challenged my views, you seem to be expressing your own myopia. So I don't expect a response from someone who has nothing valid to say.

Thank you.

 

[CLAX1911]

Is stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family immoral?

Yes, it is. Somebody else makes loaves of bread to feed their family.

 

[soylentgreen]

Yes, it is. Somebody else makes loaves of bread to feed their family.

So better to let your family starve to death? What is the morality there?

 

[CLAX1911]

So better to let your family starve to death? What is the morality there?

to prevent your family from starving to death someone else's family has to starve to death where is the morality of that?

and it's the only way you can get food is through stealing then you're probably immoral anyway.

 

[soylentgreen]

to prevent your family from starving to death someone else's family has to starve to death where is the morality of that?

Then would it not be better to encourage all to steal to prevent starvation. Or is dying a more moral position than fighting to survive?

 

[CLAX1911]

Then would it not be better to encourage all to steal to prevent starvation. Or is dying a more moral position than fighting to survive?

If someone has a loaf of bread that they're going to feed their family and you steal it you are essentially taking food out of their children's mouths. If everyone stole and no one produced there would be nothing to steal.

If you're too lazy to hunt or work or Coke or you have too much pride to go to food Bank, or ask for welfare. you are being immoral because you're placing your pride and your leisure time above the sustenance of your children.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Who else's biases should be used to justify violating a woman's rights and bodily autonomy?

Who else besides the individual woman should decide?

You gotta admit: it’s just pure *swagger* to insist *having* a vagina and *having* an abortion would *disqualify* me from speaking on it. I appreciate the stye.

 

[CLAX1911]

Who else's biases should be used to justify violating a woman's rights and bodily autonomy?

Who else besides the individual woman should decide?

Ultimately nobody else can. Even if abortion was illegal miscarriages happen.

The laws state whether or not as a society we condone it. That's what all laws do.

there isn't really an argument about whether or not it should be legal that's been legal for 40 years. The argument is whether or not people should condone it.

 

[weaver2]

Your opinions about my opinions are noted. You haven't challenged my views, you seem to be expressing your own myopia. So I don't expect a response from someone who has nothing valid to say.

Thank you.

You posed a problem. I solved it. You're welcome.

 

[CLAX1911]

You posed a problem. I solved it. You're welcome.

False you created a problem in your own head and pretended it was me.

You keep wanting to bring religion into this in my opening statement in this thread is that religion isn't involved.

My opinions are based on science and secular morality but you don't want to hear it. That's why you're doing this shuck and jive. It's okay I know it threatens you. So until somebody asks I will spare you.

 

[weaver2]

False you created a problem in your own head and pretended it was me.

You keep wanting to bring religion into this in my opening statement in this thread is that religion isn't involved.

My opinions are based on science and secular morality but you don't want to hear it. That's why you're doing this shuck and jive. It's okay I know it threatens you. So until somebody asks I will spare you.

The argument is the same whether it is religion or opinion based and you posed a problem

...... But if you have different ideas on the morality of killing people that's considered a mental disorder.

Translation: How do I deal with differing ideas about abortion? And I said let people act on their own beliefs about abortion. If you believe abortion is wrong don't get one. Problem solved.

I hear your secular morality about abortion perfectly loud and clear. What you're not hearing is your own voice calling out to the law to deny others a right to their own morality about abortion.

 

[CLAX1911]

The argument is the same whether it is religion or opinion based

good thing my argument is based in secular morality and science.

But go ahead and pretend that I didn't say that it's how you protect yourself from scrutiny.

and you posed a problem Translation: How do I deal with differing ideas about abortion? And I said let people act on their own beliefs about abortion. If you believe abortion is wrong don't get one. Problem solved.

your viewpoint is nihilistic. Your same proposition can be attributed to everything. If you think pedophilia is wrong don't molest kids and someone who does don't worry about that. your point is we lock people up in jail for things like molesting children murdering and raping.

These rules we have are based on morality.

I hear your secular morality about abortion perfectly loud and clear.

I know you don't you're just jumping to conclusions you haven't heard what I was going to say the only way you could know it is if you're psychic and I doubt your ability to read other people's minds.

What you're not hearing is your own voice calling out to the law to deny others a right to their own morality about abortion.

yeah I do the same thing with regards to laws against child molestation or murder.

Every law we ever had is based on morality.

 

[Scrabaholic]

You’ve gotten scientific arguments, but to lefties like you, no amount of evidence will convince you. At least half of the patients in abortion die, and sometimes the woman dies too, or becomes seriously injured, or sterile.


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There is no patient in abortion other than the woman undergoing the procedure.

 

[Scrabaholic]

You just said ”DYING” and ”SURVIVED”, proving my point. Women can die from having abortions too.


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Carrying to term is far riskier.

Conclusion: Legal induced abortion is markedly safer than childbirth. The risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than that with abortion. Similarly, the overall morbidity associated with childbirth exceeds that with abortion.

The comparative safety of legal induced abortion and childbirth in the United States - PubMed

 

[nota bene]

It’s also intellectually dubious. We do “murder” defenseless sleeping or comatose people every day in this country. Families in consultation with their doctors make decisions on DNR, pulling plugs, etc.

This is my main argument for abortion. We absolutely make these choices every single day. Look at covid. The conservative position on the virus has been that unfortunately these thigns happen, and if the weaker among us suffer or die, that’s just nature. I don’t understand why I must be pragmatic about 190k Americans but a fetus that has zero value must be weighed not only as its own entity, but ABOVE the body carrying it.

There is no good pro-life argument from a scientific or logical standpoint. It will always be related to religious dogma because at the end of the day what justification could anyone possibly make that a fetus should have special status over any other living thing on this planet.

Ridiculous superstition.

Not all agree that a fetus has zero value.

 

[weaver2]

good thing my argument is based in secular morality and science.

But go ahead and pretend that I didn't say that it's how you protect yourself from scrutiny.
your viewpoint is nihilistic. Your same proposition can be attributed to everything. If you think pedophilia is wrong don't molest kids and someone who does don't worry about that. your point is we lock people up in jail for things like molesting children murdering and raping.

These rules we have are based on morality.
I know you don't you're just jumping to conclusions you haven't heard what I was going to say the only way you could know it is if you're psychic and I doubt your ability to read other people's minds.
yeah I do the same thing with regards to laws against child molestation or murder.

Every law we ever had is based on morality.

Pedophilia is not victimless. Rape is not victimless. Abortion is victimless unless you give personhood and legal rights to a fetus. And I don't have to be psychic to know what argument an anti-abortion advocate is going to come up with next.