[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says (1 Viewer)

[Xilnik]

Proof?

If you're truly interested, links to my analysis (they go beyond the character limit to combine them into a post here, and I don't want to further add to the pages in this thread):

[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says

Totally understood, but I'm more focused on making sure all the SHEEP stop getting gaslighted and manipulated by the 24/7 Propaganda... Yeah sometimes you have to scream in their faces to break the programming They are becoming a Threat to America, because they are supporting Treasonous...

debatepolitics.com

[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says

Totally understood, but I'm more focused on making sure all the SHEEP stop getting gaslighted and manipulated by the 24/7 Propaganda... Yeah sometimes you have to scream in their faces to break the programming They are becoming a Threat to America, because they are supporting Treasonous...

debatepolitics.com

[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says

Totally understood, but I'm more focused on making sure all the SHEEP stop getting gaslighted and manipulated by the 24/7 Propaganda... Yeah sometimes you have to scream in their faces to break the programming They are becoming a Threat to America, because they are supporting Treasonous...

debatepolitics.com

[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says

Totally understood, but I'm more focused on making sure all the SHEEP stop getting gaslighted and manipulated by the 24/7 Propaganda... Yeah sometimes you have to scream in their faces to break the programming They are becoming a Threat to America, because they are supporting Treasonous...

debatepolitics.com

[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says

Totally understood, but I'm more focused on making sure all the SHEEP stop getting gaslighted and manipulated by the 24/7 Propaganda... Yeah sometimes you have to scream in their faces to break the programming They are becoming a Threat to America, because they are supporting Treasonous...

debatepolitics.com

 

[snakestretcher]

Somtimes. Get them the hell out of our country at the very least.

Even if they had done nothing more heinous than being in America illegally (a misdemeanour)?

 

[DCCougar]

DCCougar said:
You can't just ignore this part of the Supreme Court's finding.

There was no Supreme Court ruling on secession.

LOL, I guess you can ignore a Supreme Court finding when it contradicts your erroneous assertion.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I'm not part of this.

You are on a political discussion forum called "debate" politics. In this thread, you are making the argument that people should be deported to a brutal prison without due process despite the fact the Supreme Court already ruled that the deportees are entitled to due process during deportation. You keep claiming they are gang members, but produce no evidence, nor can you point to any evidence being put forward by the Trump administration. We now know 75% have no criminal record, and about half of them had already agreed to be deported to Venezuela before the government tricked them and sent them to El Salvador so they could conduct a publicity stunt.

It's okay if you don't want to put in any work whatsoever at any time to back up any of your argument you're making in this thread. It's your right to post obnoxious, fact-less statements in support of the Trump administration's outrageous violation of the law.

But it's also everyone else's right to simply not accept your silly, superficial, disingenuous arguments.

 

[Ganondagan]

Even if they had done nothing more heinous than being in America illegally (a misdemeanour)?

Yes, until immigration is under control with a controllable and generous legal immigration policy. Immigrants should come into America with families, skills, and waving American flags. Immigrants with bodies covered with gang tattoos, and unwilling to assimilate peacefully into our culture, not welcome.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Far left authoritarian fascists wanted to do the same 4 years ago. No side should have that power, no matter who is in control.

Hello RedAkston. Thank you for your response. I hope you are doing well.

First of all, let me just say I agree with your statement 100%. While I am a Democrat, I too do not agree with "far left" authoritarianism. And I consider my criticisms of Trump's administration to be rooted in our laws and in our Constitution.

I assume you're talking about Covid.

Allow me to respond to the argument you're making.

No one was indefinitely imprisoned without trial for Covid violations. The harshest outcomes were fines or short-term arrests for disobeying emergency orders, and even those instances were extremeley rare. It's important we remember that.

If you want to see real far left authoritarianism, just look at what the Chinese government did, where they physically locked people inside their homes and apartments.

Covid-era restrictions in the U.S. were based on the logic that an individual's freedom must be balanced against harm to others. Temporary, and legally justified public health restrictions have a firm basis in our laws stretching back to 1905 when the Supreme Court ruled in Jacobson v. Massachusetts that states can fine people for not complying with public health laws.

Also, whatever you might think of the Covid-era restrictions, you could challenge those restrictions in court, and many of the most extreme restrictions were lifted by the courts. If the Trump administration is somehow successful in suspending Habeas Corpus there will be no opportunity for any court to review anyone's case at all. The government could indefinitely confine any person to prison without any chance of legal review by a court.

So, no, I don't think the two situations are that similar. And I am honestly worried that independents like yourself aren't taking what Stephen Miller is saying about this more seriously.

Also, I think it's important to remember that both Republican-led and Democratic-led states used emergency powers to support public health efforts to fight Covid-19. In the early stages of the pandemic, the public health measured had very strong, broad bipartisan support. It only became an issue only after Trump's supporters and advisors began to realize the pandemic was hurting Trump's re-election bid.

President Trump suggested Friday that states that are not moving quickly to reopen amid the coronavirus pandemic, including California, may be doing it to harm his re-election chances.

In an interview on Fox News’ “Fox and Friends,” Trump singled out California for being too slow to restart its economy.

“You look at some cases, some people think they’re doing it for politics,” Trump said. “They think they’re doing it because it will hurt me the longer it takes, it will hurt me in the election, the longer it takes to open up. And I can see some of that. Because some of these people are being unrealistic. They’re being ridiculous. I’ve looked at a couple of states that are being absolutely ridiculous.”

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Trump-California-too-slow-to-reopen-suggests-15257207.php

 

[Ganondagan]

You don't have to have a criminal record to be part of a gang. So I'm not lying you're making up exceptions. Someone you could have just not ever been caught.

It's a drastic measure but I think we need another "Operation Wetback" used by President Eisenhower in the 1950's to remove more than 1.3 million illegal aliens without due process.

 

[Xilnik]

You don't have to have a criminal record to be part of a gang. So I'm not lying you're making up exceptions. Someone you could have just not ever been caught.

That’s true, but gang affiliation is usually established through documented evidence, law enforcement databases, or prior offenses. Without those, the claim remains speculative. How would you recommend determining gang affiliation instead of assuming all Venezuelans are members via a wide net?

 

[Xilnik]

It's a drastic measure but I think we need another "Operation Wetback" used by President Eisenhower in the 1950s to remove more than 1.3 million illegal aliens without due process.

That program was deeply controversial, leading to mass deportations without legal protections, including cases where U.S. citizens were mistakenly expelled. Repeating it today would raise significant constitutional and humanitarian concerns. Would you be worried about citizens being mistakenly included in group removals?

 

[Ganondagan]

That program was deeply controversial, leading to mass deportations without legal protections, including cases where U.S. citizens were mistakenly expelled. Repeating it today would raise significant constitutional and humanitarian concerns. Would you be worried about citizens being mistakenly included in group removals?

I realize the program was controversal. Deportation programs can be designed to minimize such mistakes those programs don't have to be mistake-free. Democrats facilitated waves of illegal immigration in part to make it impossible to vett them, but you know what? They will be deported with or without due process and that's entirely on Democrats.

 

[Xilnik]

I realize the program was controversial. Deportation programs can be designed to minimize such mistakes those programs don't have to be mistake-free. Democrats facilitated waves of illegal immigration in part to make it impossible to vet them, but you know what? They will be deported with or without due process and that's entirely on Democrats.

I can support finding more efficient ways to enforce deportation, especially in criminal cases. I think those provide the best avenue to verify identities when rounding up groups. For illegal immigrants with no criminal history or official tracking, I have more concerns. What do you think would be the best way to balance strong enforcement while maintaining fair due process or at least increasing accuracy in identification for expedited removal?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Not interested in the orange man bad crap.

Sorry, but in light of the absolutely obvious empirical evidence that Trump is a horrible human being all I can do with that is conclude you do know just how unethical (bad) Trump is and how wrong a choice he was because of it and simply don’t want to deal.

You’re not the only MAGA supporter choosing that path. I find it unfortunate, for all of us.

 

[CLAX1911]

Sorry, but in light of the absolutely obvious empirical evidence that Trump is a horrible human being all I can do with that is conclude you do know just how unethical (bad) Trump is and how wrong a choice he was because of it and simply don’t want to deal.

You’re not the only MAGA supporter choosing that path. I find it unfortunate, for all of us.

To bad for you

 

[ModernDiogenes]

To bad for you

No, and this is what you don’t see yet -but you will…

It’s too bad for ALL of us.

We didn’t all make this mistake, but we are all going to pay for it.

 

[bomberfox]

Far left authoritarian fascists wanted to do the same 4 years ago. No side should have that power, no matter who is in control.

I forget when habeas corpus was suspended 4 years ago and people were sent to prison without trial.

 

[Ganondagan]

No, and this is what you don’t see yet -but you will…

It’s too bad for ALL of us.

We didn’t all make this mistake, but we are all going to pay for it.

And won't you be surprised when Trump's policies turn out to be good for the country. I'm sure you will apologize profusely.

 

[CLAX1911]

That’s true, but gang affiliation is usually established through documented evidence, law enforcement databases, or prior offenses.

Documented evidence such as tattoos and affiliations

Without those, the claim remains speculative. How would you recommend determining gang affiliation instead of assuming all Venezuelans are members via a wide net?

See above

 

[CLAX1911]

You are on a political discussion forum called "debate" politics. In this thread, you are making the argument that people should be deported to a brutal prison without due process despite the fact the Supreme Court already ruled that the deportees are entitled to due process during deportation. You keep claiming they are gang members, but produce no evidence, nor can you point to any evidence being put forward by the Trump administration. We now know 75% have no criminal record, and about half of them had already agreed to be deported to Venezuela before the government tricked them and sent them to El Salvador so they could conduct a publicity stunt.

It's okay if you don't want to put in any work whatsoever at any time to back up any of your argument you're making in this thread. It's your right to post obnoxious, fact-less statements in support of the Trump administration's outrageous violation of the law.

But it's also everyone else's right to simply not accept your silly, superficial, disingenuous arguments.

Gangsters should be deported to prison

 

[SoCal]

Documented evidence such as tattoos and affiliations...

Has the victims deported on this 'evidence' been given the chance to plead their case? I.e. reviewed by a court? Otherwise known as 'due process'...

 

[ModernDiogenes]

And won't you be surprised when Trump's policies turn out to be good for the country. I'm sure you will apologize profusely.

Of you’ve been actually reading my posts you’d note I’ve repeatedly stated I’d be more than happy to be wrong. Why wouldn’t? This is all as bad for me as it is for everyone else if I’m right.

You would also have seen me, multiple times over the five years I’ve been here, thanking others for teaching me something new in their correction of what I’ve stated… when they were right (and I’m an open minded person who can be changed in my thoughts when a logical, concise, argument is presented that successfully refutes my own - all you have to do is make one).

 

[CLAX1911]

Has the victims deported on this 'evidence' been given the chance to plead their case?

What case? I have gang tattoos and hang out with the games that have the same tattoos as me because I'm not a gangster?

I.e. reviewed by a court? Otherwise known as 'due process'...

To what extent do you think it should be reviewed by a court

 

[Xilnik]

Documented evidence such as tattoos and affiliations

See above

Are there standardized methods for verifying these affiliations beyond visual markers? Some individuals might have similar tattoos but no actual gang ties, while others could be involved without visible signs. How do authorities avoid false positives or false negatives in enforcement?

 

[CLAX1911]

Are there standardized methods for verifying these affiliations beyond visual markers?

Generally no seems ridiculous for you to even ask that it probably won't have dad killed by the gang nam

Some individuals might have similar tattoos but no actual gang ties, while others could be involved without visible signs.

Yeah that's why other things are considered like affiliation. If you have the imitation game tattoos and affiliations with games you probably are killed.

How do authorities avoid false positives or false negatives in enforcement?

How would they have a false positive?

 

[Xilnik]

Generally no seems ridiculous for you to even ask that it probably won't have dad killed by the gang nam

Yeah that's why other things are considered like affiliation. If you have the imitation game tattoos and affiliations with games you probably are killed.

How would they have a false positive?

Affiliation markers like tattoos and associations can be useful indicators, but I see potential for people to be misidentified based on superficial traits. For example, someone could have a tattoo with cultural or personal significance that resembles known gang imagery but isn’t related to gang activity. Similarly, living in a neighborhood with documented gang presence might lead to assumptions about someone's involvement even if they aren't actively participating. Do enforcement agencies have safeguards to prevent mistaken classifications in cases like these for illegal immigrants with no records?

 

[CLAX1911]

Affiliation markers like tattoos and associations can be useful indicators, but I see potential for people to be misidentified based on superficial traits.

Well you're not an expert in getting tattoos so what difference does it make what you see?

For example, someone could have a tattoo with cultural or personal significance that resembles known gang imagery but isn’t related to gang activity.

But if they have these tattoos and their affiliated with gangsters and they're not dead at the hands of the gangsters it's probably a logical conclusion.

Similarly, living in a neighborhood with documented gang presence might lead to assumptions about someone's involvement even if they aren't actively participating. Do enforcement agencies have safeguards to prevent mistaken classifications in cases like these for illegal immigrants with no records?

The gangster see you nearby sporting their tattoos and you are not a member they kill you.