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[W:875] Trump administration 'looking at' suspending habeas corpus, Stephen Miller says

That particular gangs have particular indicators but that was the scenario I pointed to you regarding the Aryan brotherhood? I'm in a club did you think I was arguing for a one size fits all solution? Why would I have given you a specific example? Why would I have pointed it out that some games don't use tattoos?

Maybe this is a better question what the hell are you arguing with me about,?
Who said I'm necessarily arguing with you? I agree with you that a jury isn't necessary, but that also means investigators would need to be more disciplined when determining gang behavior and patterns. If they aren't, the results are misdemeanors being treated as violent criminal offenses.
 
Who said I'm necessarily arguing with you? I agree with you that a jury isn't necessary, but that also means investigators would need to be more disciplined when determining gang behavior and patterns.
More disciplined than what?
If they aren't, the results are misdemeanors being treated as violent criminal offenses.
Depends on the game since this is really about MS-13 it depends on the rank in order to get a certain rank with the game you have to kill somebody.
 
Yes, until immigration is under control with a controllable and generous legal immigration policy. Immigrants should come into America with families, skills, and waving American flags. Immigrants with bodies covered with gang tattoos, and unwilling to assimilate peacefully into our culture, not welcome.
So entirely innocent people are being deported to what are essentially concentration camps, and you're happy with that?
 
More disciplined than what?

Depends on the game since this is really about MS-13 it depends on the rank in order to get a certain rank with the game you have to kill somebody.
I see you fell for the MS13 lies and photoshopped tattoos. No wonder Trump loves people like you; 'gullible' must be your middle name.




 
More disciplined than what?

Depends on the game since this is really about MS-13 it depends on the rank in order to get a certain rank with the game you have to kill somebody.
The authorities must exercise more discipline when identifying gang members since there have been several instances of mistaken identification.

The Alien Enemies Act was invoked, per the President’s Proclamation, for Tren de Aragua. How does it apply to MS-13, Barrio 18, and Los Satanás?
 
The authorities must exercise more discipline when identifying gang members since there have been several instances of mistaken identification.
Has there been? Who?
The Alien Enemies Act (AEA) was invoked, per the President’s Proclamation, for Tren de Aragua. How does it apply to MS-13, Barrio 18, and Los Satanás?
What's the difference other than titles?
 
Has there been? Who?

What's the difference other than titles?
Several Venezuelans were deported to El Salvador instead of their home country because Venezuela refused to accept them. Eight Venezuelan women were sent to El Salvador after U.S. officials misled them into thinking they were being deported to Venezuela. Similarly, 238 Venezuelan men were transferred to El Salvador’s Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT) under the Alien Enemies Act, despite 178 having no evident gang affiliation.

The Alien Enemies Act was invoked per the President’s Proclamation for Tren de Aragua, a gang originating in Venezuelan prisons, particularly Tocorón Prison, that expanded across South America and the U.S.. They specialize in human trafficking, extortion, and organized crime, exploiting weak governance to expand their influence.

Unlike Tren de Aragua, other gangs have different origins and structures:
  • MS-13: Originated in Los Angeles, California, in the 1980s as a group formed by Salvadoran immigrants seeking protection. It later evolved into a transnational criminal organization with a strict hierarchy, known for extreme violence, drug trafficking, and human smuggling.
  • Barrio 18: Also started in Los Angeles but became a rival to MS-13. It is highly fragmented, with independent cliques that sometimes fight each other. They engage in extortion, drug trade, and assassinations but lack the centralized leadership of MS-13.
  • Los Satanás: A lesser-known gang operating primarily in El Salvador and Honduras. They are involved in violent crime and drug trafficking, with a reputation for brutality and ritualistic violence.

While all these gangs engage in criminal activities, their structures, origins, and methods differ. Tren de Aragua was born in a prison system and expanded through weak governance, whereas MS-13 and Barrio 18 emerged from immigrant communities in the U.S. before spreading internationally.

Would you argue these groups meet the same criteria for such a designation? Back to our earlier conversation, would all be classified using the same criteria to determine their gang affiliation?
 
Several Venezuelans were deported to El Salvador instead of their home country because Venezuela refused to accept them. Eight Venezuelan women were sent to El Salvador after U.S. officials misled them into thinking they were being deported to Venezuela. Similarly, 238 Venezuelan men were transferred to El Salvador’s Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT) under the Alien Enemies Act, despite 178 having no evident gang affiliation.

The Alien Enemies Act was invoked per the President’s Proclamation for Tren de Aragua, a gang originating in Venezuelan prisons, particularly Tocorón Prison, that expanded across South America and the U.S.. They specialize in human trafficking, extortion, and organized crime, exploiting weak governance to expand their influence.

Unlike Tren de Aragua, other gangs have different origins and structures:
  • MS-13: Originated in Los Angeles, California, in the 1980s as a group formed by Salvadoran immigrants seeking protection. It later evolved into a transnational criminal organization with a strict hierarchy, known for extreme violence, drug trafficking, and human smuggling.
  • Barrio 18: Also started in Los Angeles but became a rival to MS-13. It is highly fragmented, with independent cliques that sometimes fight each other. They engage in extortion, drug trade, and assassinations but lack the centralized leadership of MS-13.
  • Los Satanás: A lesser-known gang operating primarily in El Salvador and Honduras. They are involved in violent crime and drug trafficking, with a reputation for brutality and ritualistic violence.

While all these gangs engage in criminal activities, their structures, origins, and methods differ. Tren de Aragua was born in a prison system and expanded through weak governance, whereas MS-13 and Barrio 18 emerged from immigrant communities in the U.S. before spreading internationally.
Good criminal activities I have more interested in I don't care about their lore
Would you argue these groups meet the same criteria for such a designation? Back to our earlier conversation, would all be classified using the same criteria to determine their gang affiliation?
When were we having that conversation it seems like I wasn't participating in that.
 
Good criminal activities I have more interested in I don't care about their lore

When were we having that conversation it seems like I wasn't participating in that.
I'm starting to wonder if you're participating in this thread.
 
I'm starting to wonder if you're participating in this thread.
Your question seems like you have forgot everything we've discussed to this point.

Do you remember when I give you the scenario with the Aryan brotherhood? Did you think I gave you that specific example because I think it's uniform across all criminal organizations?

It's like you what to have an argument with an imaginary person.
 
Your question seems like you have forgot everything we've discussed to this point.

Do you remember when I give you the scenario with the Aryan brotherhood? Did you think I gave you that specific example because I think it's uniform across all criminal organizations?

It's like you what to have an argument with an imaginary person.
At this point, I am simply going to agree with one of your earlier statements. If immigration officers think like five-year-olds, they'll catch the most obvious of gang members.
 
At this point, I am simply going to agree with one of your earlier statements. If immigration officers think like five-year-olds, they'll catch the most obvious of gang members.
So you make up nonsense and pretend I said it? What's the point of even talking to you?
 
Yeah. Now point out where I said immigration officers should think like this.

I don't recall saying that last part.
You seem to be struggling with reading comprehension. Re-read my post.
At this point, I am simply going to agree with one of your earlier statements. If immigration officers think like five-year-olds, they'll catch the most obvious of gang members.
 
Yeah you're not agreeing with me I never said that. I said 5-year-olds could probably point this out to prove how ridiculous you were being.
And I rephrased it to point out how ridiculous you're being. Now we're even.
 
You rephrase that change the meeting to show how ridiculous you are so now you're 2 for 0.
If you say so...

My frustration was with the following: We already discussed that gang classifications aren’t uniform and vary by group. You acknowledged that nuance matters when tying people to specific gangs since not all gangs operate the same way, so why act like that conversation didn’t happen? Why circle back to your specific example with the Aryan Brotherhood while ignoring the broader conversation that led to that example? Did you forget the broader context?

No I don't think anything is the one size fits all I think it's nuanced based on the gang. If you have to have a one size fits all solution in order to solve anything give up now.

Would you argue these groups meet the same criteria for such a designation? Back to our earlier conversation, would all be classified using the same criteria to determine their gang affiliation?
When were we having that conversation it seems like I wasn't participating in that.

Several Venezuelans were deported to El Salvador instead of their home country because Venezuela refused to accept them. Eight Venezuelan women were sent to El Salvador after U.S. officials misled them into thinking they were being deported to Venezuela. Similarly, 238 Venezuelan men were transferred to El Salvador’s Terrorism Confinement Center (CECOT) under the Alien Enemies Act, despite 178 having no evident gang affiliation.
Good criminal activities I have more interested in I don't care about their lore

Also, what was this response when responding to Venezuelans who were imprisoned with no criminal history or clear gang ties? How can you tie them to criminal activities when the investigation revealed none existed? Your response makes no sense.
 
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If you say so...

My frustration was with the following:
Arguments you were having with yourself while you ignored everything I said

If you're frustrated it's a problem of your own making

We already discussed that gang classifications aren’t uniform and vary by group.
I corrected you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again while you insisted that everyone's arguing about it simply and then when you finally accept it you go right back to doing it again.
You acknowledged that nuance matters
I started off with that point you wanted to bark about tattoos I had to point out several times that that's thought what it was about over and over and over again it's a pattern with you.
when tying people to specific gangs since not all gangs operate the same way, so why act like that conversation didn’t happen?
I said something you ignored it I said something again and you ignored it and I said it again and you ignored it. Over and over and over again.
I Why circle back to your specific example with the Aryan Brotherhood while ignoring the broader conversation that led to that example? Did you forget the broader context?
Because that example should have been the clue I'm going to keep going back to it keep hammering you on it until you get it.
Also, what was this response when responding to Venezuelans who were imprisoned with no criminal history or clear gang ties?
None. It's hearsay.
How can you tie them to criminal activities when the investigation revealed none existed? Your response makes no sense.
Maybe stop ignoring it
 
Arguments you were having with yourself while you ignored everything I said

If you're frustrated it's a problem of your own making


I corrected you over and over and over and over and over and over and over again while you insisted that everyone's arguing about it simply and then when you finally accept it you go right back to doing it again.

I started off with that point you wanted to bark about tattoos I had to point out several times that that's thought what it was about over and over and over again it's a pattern with you.

I said something you ignored it I said something again and you ignored it and I said it again and you ignored it. Over and over and over again.

Because that example should have been the clue I'm going to keep going back to it keep hammering you on it until you get it.

None. It's hearsay.

Maybe stop ignoring it
I've said it's not about the tattoos. The tattoos and affiliations were brought up by you, and I was providing rationale for cases where those are not enough evidence. You then brought up other factors, and I agreed with you other factors are important to establish a pattern.

So I'm confused. What am I ignoring?

Documented evidence such as tattoos and affiliations

See above
 
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