[W:508]Why is Africa the most backward continent in the world? Is African culture to blame?

[Ginza]

It's already been explained to you numerous times why Africa has the problems it does

It's already been explained to you numerous times and backed up with quotes from Obama, Kofi Anan, Chikezie Uzuegbunam and others that your favourite "whipping boy", those evil white people, are not the problem as to why Africa is so backward today.

 

[Jredbaron96]

It's already been explained to you numerous times

Correction: You haven't explained jack shit.

You're given your opinion and then complained when people disagree with you.

 

[Ginza]

ou haven't explained jack shit.

You're given your opinion and then complained when people disagree with you.

Feeling triggered because Obama, Kofi Anan, Chikezie Uzuegbunam and others disagree with you?

I have actually given the opinions of numerous Africans, Obama etc.

You have only contributed off topic comments about those evil white Spaniards.

 

[Nickyjo]

Interesting points.

The US certainly opposed Communism almost everywhere they found it, possibly excessively but those were the days before the USSR disintegrated and China was heavily involved in supporting "terrorism" or any anti-capitalist regime. Communism was a far bigger threat to world peace than it is today....at least in the case of Russia, whose economic potential has deteriorated in recent decades even with their plentiful oil and gas.

In my view, the US probably created more communists than we deterred by our support of dictatorships. And you can bet that people behind the iron curtain were probably more well-informed about US support of repression in Latin America than Americans were. It was a combination of corporate greed, cynical use of a bogeyman, genuine concern following the Soviet dominance of Eastern Europe, in no particular order of prominence. I remember on telling incident. A center-left from northern South America was puzzled by Jimmy Carter's human rights work, which was critical of both left and rightist tyranny. They saw it as a dramatic break with US policy (as did the right in the US.). They cynically chalked it up to the US's need to regain some moral authority after Vietnam and Watergate. Many Latin Americans obviously recognized the extraordinary domestic freedoms in the US, but saw our dominance of the hemisphere as symmetrical to the Soviet dominance of Eastern Europe. And, indeed one could match every paranoid incursion by Russia to its west, with an equal one by the US to its south. Even today, Russia-supporting cynics have speculated about how thenUS would respond if Mexico seemed ready to join a defense pact with Putin.

In Africa where I used to live, the South African, Mozambican, Rhodesian, Angolan freedom movements were all heavily supported by the Communists but have since mostly rejected Communist politics and are mostly democratic.

I was taught by American teachers (American Field Service workers) in Malawi. They were good people.

I never saw the Western powers in Africa as trying to "beat down" the locals. Sure they wanted to make a profit out of their dealings with them, but it was the same vice versa. Many people who live outside of Africa seem to think that Africans are always victims of greedy Westerners. Let me tell you that Africans drive a hard bargain when it comes to business. They are no pushovers. It's really difficult to "take advantage" of them.

What infuriates me in Africa is the way corrupt leaders are taking advantage of their own people. Ordinary Africans are usually quite subservient to anyone with power or wealth. Subservience is a part of African culture, especially the Bantu people like the Zulus, Xhosa, Ndebele etc. It's a part of their traditional culture to respect elders/leaders. This is changing quite quickly in parts of Africa but not quickly enough in my opinion.

As Julius Kwase says : "many Africans think an easy going lifestyle or live now and don’t make any plans for the future and they see it as the best way to live".........this is very true. Many Africans prefer an easy going lifestyle. It's just the way they prefer to live their lives.

Probably the same thing is/was said about Latin Americans, native Americans, and others who were colonized. Some have chalked it up to climate, others to Catholicism in various contexts. I imagine the Brits said that of the Irish back in the day. Who's to say that isn't a better formula for happiness than the super-productive acquisitive heart-attack causing "Protestant" approach. I think of the old Sinatra tune, "Mr. Success":

"Why I once knew a worrying man, he was a hurrying man, with never a second to play. He had appointments to keep, a lot of people to meet, and it took 30 hours to make him a day. Not for me, not what I wanna be. Just your head on my chest, and I'm Mr. Success."

 

[Ginza]

Probably the same thing is/was said about Latin Americans, native Americans, and others who were colonized. Some have chalked it up to climate, others to Catholicism in various contexts. I imagine the Brits said that of the Irish back in the day. Who's to say that isn't a better formula for happiness than the super-productive acquisitive heart-attack causing "Protestant" approach. I think of the old Sinatra tune, "Mr. Success":

"Why I once knew a worrying man, he was a hurrying man, with never a second to play. He had appointments to keep, a lot of people to meet, and it took 30 hours to make him a day. Not for me, not what I wanna be. Just your head on my chest, and I'm Mr. Success."

I quite agree with you on that score. Money does not buy happiness.

I loved living in Malawi despite it being one of the poorest nations in Africa. It is known as "the warm heart of Africa".The people are almost always friendly and polite.

But a certain level of income is needed to to keep one healthy and many Africans do not have even this....and it's getting worse.

"One half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent. While the rest of the world's economy grew at an annual rate of close to 2 percent from 1960 to 2002, growth performance in Africa has been dismal."

The Economic Decline in Africa

www.nber.org

Africans are worse off now economically than they were during the colonisation era.

And where do they want to emigrate to, if they got a chance?.........Mostly the USA or Europe.....the place that many who live there criticise. Perhaps because they don't know what it's like to live in a poor country. Africans know whether they would prefer to live with or without whites.....and it's overwhelmingly with whites.

 

[Nickyjo]

I quite agree with you on that score. Money does not buy happiness.

I loved living in Malawi despite it being one of the poorest nations in Africa. It is known as "the warm heart of Africa".The people are almost always friendly and polite.

But a certain level of income is needed to to keep one healthy and many Africans do not have even this....and it's getting worse.

"One half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent. While the rest of the world's economy grew at an annual rate of close to 2 percent from 1960 to 2002, growth performance in Africa has been dismal."

The Economic Decline in Africa

www.nber.org

Africans are worse off now economically than they were during the colonisation era.

And where do they want to emigrate to, if they got a chance?.........Mostly the USA or Europe.....the place that many who live there criticise. Perhaps because they don't know what it's like to live in a poor country. Africans know whether they would prefer to live with or without whites.....and it's overwhelmingly with whites.

I don’t know if it is still the case, but when I was doing refugee work I was told that Malawi was the country with the highest number of refugees per native population.

 

[Ginza]

I don’t know if it is still the case, but when I was doing refugee work I was told that Malawi was the country with the highest number of refugees per native population.

It is certainly one of the poorest nations in Africa.

The refugees there are obviously from other African nations. More credit to Malawi for being so poor themselves but still taking in those in need from elsewhere.

The country is yet another example of the rampant corruption that inflicts Africa :

"In December 2000, the IMF stopped aid disbursements due to corruption concerns, and many individual donors followed, resulting in an almost 80% drop in Malawi's development budget"

On the plus side : "In 2014, Malawian scientists had the third-largest output in Southern Africa, in terms of articles cataloged in international journals."

"Malawi was ranked 107th in the Global Innovation Index in 2021, up from 118th in 2019."

Our next door neighbour and family friend when I lived there was Vince Gondwe and his family. A former politician who is definitely one of the "good guys" IMO.

Vince wrote a book "To strive for African Greatness" in which he writes :

"To Strive for African Greatnessis about a people emerging from slavery, but continuing to be victims of socio-political ills that must be overcome. The problems include widespread strife, dictatorships, corruption, rising crime rates, rampant disease, starvation, economic disparity and mushrooming slums."

I was initially surprised that Malawi had suffered slavery in the distant past, but Vince is spot on :

"Slave trade was introduced in Malawi by the Swahili-Arab traders in the 19thCenturyfollowing a great demand for ivory and slave in the East African markets namely Zanzibar, Kilwa, Mombasa and Quelimane. The Swahili -Arabs moved further into the interior of Africa including Malawi to obtain slaves and ivory."

 

[Nickyjo]

It is certainly one of the poorest nations in Africa.

The refugees there are obviously from other African nations. More credit to Malawi for being so poor themselves but still taking in those in need from elsewhere.

The country is yet another example of the rampant corruption that inflicts Africa :

"In December 2000, the IMF stopped aid disbursements due to corruption concerns, and many individual donors followed, resulting in an almost 80% drop in Malawi's development budget"

On the plus side : "In 2014, Malawian scientists had the third-largest output in Southern Africa, in terms of articles cataloged in international journals."

"Malawi was ranked 107th in the Global Innovation Index in 2021, up from 118th in 2019."

Our next door neighbour and family friend when I lived there was Vince Gondwe and his family. A former politician who is definitely one of the "good guys" IMO.

Vince wrote a book "To strive for African Greatness" in which he writes :

"To Strive for African Greatnessis about a people emerging from slavery, but continuing to be victims of socio-political ills that must be overcome. The problems include widespread strife, dictatorships, corruption, rising crime rates, rampant disease, starvation, economic disparity and mushrooming slums."

I was initially surprised that Malawi had suffered slavery in the distant past, but Vince is spot on :

"Slave trade was introduced in Malawi by the Swahili-Arab traders in the 19thCenturyfollowing a great demand for ivory and slave in the East African markets namely Zanzibar, Kilwa, Mombasa and Quelimane. The Swahili -Arabs moved further into the interior of Africa including Malawi to obtain slaves and ivory."

Some history makes one depressed at being human.

 

[Juin]

Describing African culture was not his purpose. But the corruption that is rampant in Africa, nepotism, tribalism etc can all be argued to have their root in cultural issues.

By racists

The items he listed, no doubt defensible, do not describe a culture.

The question "what is African culture?" is a good one. Is African culture the Ibo, Hansa etc cultures that prevailed before colonisation? Or is African culture the wreck- a blend of African and European, with the worst of both dominant- left behind after colonisation? Were pre colonisation Ibo and Hausa societies rife with corruption like their post colonial remnants?

It will seem to me like a pre colonial Ibo and a post colonial Ibo are two completely different animals as far corruption goes. The expert on corrupt African cultures sees no culpability on the part of the plunderer in between

 

[Ginza]

By racists

So the educated and intelligent Africans who are members of this "think tank" are racists? Lol!

"to actually change the culture, so that the concept of corruption is both understood and recognised as anathema."

Open Society in Africa

George Soros began his philanthropic work in Africa in 1979. We continue to work with local partners on democratic governance, economic advancement and other issues.

www.osiea.org

It's hard not to smile sometimes at how race obsessed some Americans are. The race card is played at every opportunity by some in the USA.

 

[slick]

“Rhodesia”, like apartheid South Africa, was nothing more than a tinpot tyranny fighting forever wars in a desperate attempt to preserve white supremacy.

Don't be silly. More blacks were tortured & killed in the 1st 6 years of Mugabe rule, than in the entire 15 years of Smith Rhodesia
as Mugabe eliminated all black opposition in order to erect his one party state.
And when Smith battled the rebels he had more blacks in his forces than whites at times during the rebellion.

What is to be remembered is that Rhodesia once the breadbasket of Africa, after the one man, one vote,
one time event in late last century led to the Zimbabwe rule of Mugabe and the breadbasket of Africa became the
cesspool of Africa.

 

[Tigerace117]

Don't be silly. More blacks were tortured & killed in the 1st 6 years of Mugabe rule, than in the entire 15 years of Smith Rhodesia
as Mugabe eliminated all black opposition in order to erect his one party state.
And when Smith battled the rebels he had more blacks in his forces than whites at times during the rebellion.

What is to be remembered is that Rhodesia once the breadbasket of Africa, after the one man, one vote,
one time event in late last century led to the Zimbabwe rule of Mugabe and the breadbasket of Africa became the
cesspool of Africa.

What is to be remembered is that “Rhodesia” was a vicious, explicitly white supremacist regime which clung to power on the basis of ruthlessly oppressing its non-white populace.

 

[Grand Mal]

Africa continues to be ridden with corruption, violence and poor governance. Why?

Because everywhere in the world where primitive people were encountered by European civilization their lives were absolutely, completely ruined.

 

[Gozaburo]

Because everywhere in the world where primitive people were encountered by European civilization their lives were absolutely, completely ruined.

Wait, how is this an argument against the OPs post.

You said "primitive" people, which seems to suggest that their culture and lifestyle was unsophisticated prior to coming in contact with the European.

 

[slick]

What is to be remembered is that “Rhodesia” was a vicious, explicitly white supremacist regime which clung to power on the basis of ruthlessly oppressing its non-white populace.

From 'Requim for Rhodesia'

It is difficult to get inside the mind of an African. He has his own way of life: he has lived it for 10,000 years. You cannot enter into it, you cannot understand it. It involves witchcraft, it involves torture. It does not involve voting.​

It is usually quite easy to tell when you house has been burglarized by an African. They cover up all the mirrors with towels to prevent an image being held and betraying them to the police. On one occasion an African broke into a man’s house and killed him and stole his clothes. The next day he was arrested walking up and down the street right outside. He was quite indignant when arrested because the witch doctor had given him something to make him invisible.

Even educated Africans believe in the tikolosh (I am sorry to say that I do not know how to spell it). This is an invisible little African boogie man capable of taking over men’s bodies and doing great evil. He is little short fellow and cannot climb very high, so all your servants must have their beds put up on stilts from time to time. Branches rubbing on a tin roof at night (Africans do not like trees very much) can terrify your servants into quitting, so you must put a pair of scissors under the bed.

 

[Tigerace117]

From 'Requim for Rhodesia'

It is difficult to get inside the mind of an African. He has his own way of life: he has lived it for 10,000 years. You cannot enter into it, you cannot understand it. It involves witchcraft, it involves torture. It does not involve voting.​

It is usually quite easy to tell when you house has been burglarized by an African. They cover up all the mirrors with towels to prevent an image being held and betraying them to the police. On one occasion an African broke into a man’s house and killed him and stole his clothes. The next day he was arrested walking up and down the street right outside. He was quite indignant when arrested because the witch doctor had given him something to make him invisible.

Even educated Africans believe in the tikolosh (I am sorry to say that I do not know how to spell it). This is an invisible little African boogie man capable of taking over men’s bodies and doing great evil. He is little short fellow and cannot climb very high, so all your servants must have their beds put up on stilts from time to time. Branches rubbing on a tin roof at night (Africans do not like trees very much) can terrify your servants into quitting, so you must put a pair of scissors under the bed.

Which is such utter drivel.

Europeans have engaged in torture with great enthusiasm right up until the present day. Europeans also systematically sought to deny their colonial subjects the right to vote.

Yawn. So what? Millions of people across Europe and the US believe in cryptids.

 

[eohrnberger]

This sure seems like 'necroing' a thread when the previous post was on May 15, 2022.

 

[jaypatriot]

What is to be remembered is that “Rhodesia” was a vicious, explicitly white supremacist regime which clung to power on the basis of ruthlessly oppressing its non-white populace.

And now it is the cesspool of Africa instead of it breadbasket.
I bet everyone is happy it is no longer run by whites.
Now they can starve knowing they won their country back.

 

[slick]

Which is such utter drivel.

Europeans have engaged in torture with great enthusiasm right up until the present day. Europeans also systematically sought to deny their colonial subjects the right to vote.

Yawn. So what? Millions of people across Europe and the US believe in cryptids.

The fact remains that:

An un-elected American official [Henry Kissinger], was a prime mover changing Rhodesia to Zimbabwe without the knowledge or consent of the American people, committing his adopted country to the support of several un-elected Communist dictatorships in their voting-rights war against Rhodesia, a country which that official had never even visited.
Since Mr. Kissinger is a refugee from Nazi Germany, it is apparent that he felt something less than grateful: Rhodesian had the highest killed-in-action ratio of any Commonwealth country during WWII.
​

Then overweight "exploited" Africans lined up to vote for majority rule, 1979, followed, in many cases, by emigration to Britain or flight to South Africa.
The "majority" today would probably emigrate anywhere they could, now that they have their "rule”.
#############################
Riding shotgun for Mugabe I suggest puts you in a dreadful light with entire segments of
SJW advocates, not that I care but continue to sluggishly motor on.

Equating atrocities committed by the Smith's Rhodesian militia is utter nonsense!
In order to squash a rebellion led to the death of some 30,000 blacks by the newly formed
Zimbabwe govt. under Mugabe just because those innocent citizens of the newly formed government happened to be of a different tribe.

The massacres were part of a sustained effort to remove all political opposition within five years. Mugabe & his partners in crime were determined to secure a “victory” in the most
egregious & sinister way ever devised to impose a one-party state.

Rhodesia which was led by a white minority for decades was permanently damaged when
Mugabe swept to a landslide victory by arousing the political consciousness of indiginous blacks who comprised over 90% of the population. The awakening of the destitute based on ethnic populism lead to 30 years of Zimbabwe's neverending tragic situation.

 

[Tigerace117]

And now it is the cesspool of Africa instead of it breadbasket.
I bet everyone is happy it is no longer run by whites.
Now they can starve knowing they won their country back.

Rhodesia was an explicitly white supremacist regime which brutally oppressed its non white populace.

And no amount of whining can change that fact.

 

[Tigerace117]

The fact remains that:

An un-elected American official [Henry Kissinger], was a prime mover changing Rhodesia to Zimbabwe without the knowledge or consent of the American people, committing his adopted country to the support of several un-elected Communist dictatorships in their voting-rights war against Rhodesia, a country which that official had never even visited.
Since Mr. Kissinger is a refugee from Nazi Germany, it is apparent that he felt something less than grateful: Rhodesian had the highest killed-in-action ratio of any Commonwealth country during WWII.
​

Then overweight "exploited" Africans lined up to vote for majority rule, 1979, followed, in many cases, by emigration to Britain or flight to South Africa.
The "majority" today would probably emigrate anywhere they could, now that they have their "rule”.
#############################
Riding shotgun for Mugabe I suggest puts you in a dreadful light with entire segments of
SJW advocates, not that I care but continue to sluggishly motor on.

Equating atrocities committed by the Smith's Rhodesian militia is utter nonsense!
In order to squash a rebellion led to the death of some 30,000 blacks by the newly formed
Zimbabwe govt. under Mugabe just because those innocent citizens of the newly formed government happened to be of a different tribe.

The massacres were part of a sustained effort to remove all political opposition within five years. Mugabe & his partners in crime were determined to secure a “victory” in the most
egregious & sinister way ever devised to impose a one-party state.

Rhodesia which was led by a white minority for decades was permanently damaged when
Mugabe swept to a landslide victory by arousing the political consciousness of indiginous blacks who comprised over 90% of the population. The awakening of the destitute based on ethnic populism lead to 30 years of Zimbabwe's neverending tragic situation.

The fact remains that Rhodesia was a vicious, autocratic regime which ruthlessly oppressed its non-white populace. The fact that those longing for the days of Jim Crow would have been “outraged” by the US no longing proudly backing yet another tyranny in the name of “but communism” just goes to show how pathetically warped that ideology was.


Sobs about “SJWs” likewise can’t change what a vicious regime Rhodesia actually was, nor its explicitly white supremacist ideology.

Meanwhile Europeans slaughtered vast numbers of innocent people on the flimsiest of pretexts or none at all, which makes the “but Mugabe” sputtering awfully comical.

 

[jaypatriot]

Rhodesia was an explicitly white supremacist regime which brutally oppressed its non white populace.

And no amount of whining can change that fact.

Lots of whiny people say that about our great country.
Is ours an oppressive country ?

 

[ThirdTerm]

Rhodesia which was led by a white minority for decades was permanently damaged when
Mugabe swept to a landslide victory by arousing the political consciousness of indiginous blacks who comprised over 90% of the population. The awakening of the destitute based on ethnic populism lead to 30 years of Zimbabwe's neverending tragic situation.

Mugabe was the First Secretary and President of the Zimbabwe African People's Union (ZAPU), which waged a guerrilla war against the white minority government, fully backed by the Soviet Union that was instrumental in the liberation of Zimbabwe. Naturally, a former guerrilla could not govern without resorting to violence.

 

[Tigerace117]

Lots of whiny people say that about our great country.
Is ours an oppressive country ?

Lots of whiny people still can’t seem to get over the utter crushing of white supremacist regimes like the Confederacy and Rhodesia, yes.

 

[slick]

Lots of whiny people still can’t seem to get over the utter crushing of white supremacist regimes like the Confederacy and Rhodesia, yes.

I figured it was about time for you to start bitching about white people again, thus your peculiar analysis
concerning whose to blame over the tragic failure of Zimbabwe since Mugabe took over. Almost as soon as Mugabe was
at the helm a campaign of terror was waged against the Ndebele people in Matabeleland in western Zimbabwe where more
than 30,000 black civilians of different tribal allegiance were killed by Robert Mugabe’s feared Fifth Brigade.

Joshua Nkomo, represented the main obstacle. Zapu enjoyed overwhelming support among the Ndebele and was seen as
an impediment by the leadership of Zanu-PF. In the words of Mugabe, the people of Matabeleland needed to be “re-educated.
Documents appear to provide evidence that the massacres were but one component of a sustained and strategic effort to remove
all political opposition within five years of independence. Zanu-PF leaders were determined to secure a “victory” against a non-existent
opposition in elections scheduled for 1985, after which there would be a “mandate” from the people to impose a one-party state.

The western response to violence against Mugabe's black countrymen in the 1980s was a pale shadow of the reaction to attacks
on white farmers in 2000. Many Ndebele remain bitter about this inconsistency. On the day of Mugabe's inauguration as president on 28 June 2008, several white farmers who had protested the seizure of their land were beaten and burned by Robert Mugabe's supporters.

I realize Mugabe is tops with you but is he more worthy of your praise than
the Algerian Arab leader President Houari Boumediene.
Afterall Boumediene was the prophet of the demise of whiteness:

'One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to
go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because
they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons.
The wombs of our women will give us victory.'