[W:2761] Trump says he expects to be arrested Tuesday

[devildavid]

There is no point in engaging with the dysfunctional who have zero interest in civil discourse. People who try to make political discussions personal are not interested in the politics. All they want to do is find someone they think is to blame for 'ruining America' and dump on them. The correct thing to do about minds like that is to marginalize them. Disengage.

If all people interested in civility were to refuse to talk to the disgruntled then they would be left out of intellectual conversations all together.

The problem America has is that we have allowed extremists to invade the mainstream. Mostly in the Republican party, but not exclusively. Extremism belongs on the fringes of society. By simply engaging with them we have given them some credibility, as if they are worthy to be talked to. They are not.

As you have said, it is not possible to have a polite conversation with them. There are only two choices. Refuse to engage with them at all, or get sucked into their dysfunction. There is no way to fight in the gutter without getting dragged into the gutter.

Everyone here was once a child. Some have done a better job of maturing than others. If an immature child is unruly a parent is apt to initiate a 'time out' to give the child time to think about things. That's not possible here. Upon refusing to engage with an individual like that, they simply go find someone else to unload on. Cutting them off temporarily will only give them time to charge up on somebody else and be ready to give you both barrels if you ever try them again.

That is why the only rational recourse is to cut them off forever. Some are able to do that; others can't resist and have to keep going back for more. It is a mistake. It only results in pissing matches, negativity, and feeling badly.

Being able to 'take it' and 'give as good as one gets' are not badges of honor at all, really just indulging in dysfunction. That dysfunction carries over into real life, makes one edgy and unable to get along well with others of different views. Conversely, the ability to identify the moment the line of respect is crossed gives one the ability to tactfully change subjects or disengage IRL, for a more peaceful and rewarding life.

One of the changes in our society with the advent of social media has been people who do not know how to mesh well with others IRL. This is because they don't get enough actual interaction with others because they are spending so much time on social media. Without eye contact there is a tendency to be more coarse on social media such as an online discussion forum. The trick to avoiding that is to be what may seem overly polite online. That's easier to do when it is pointed out that a record is kept of whatever is said, meaning that anything said can be quoted back to one years later. That should give cause to think twice about making immature posts.

People mature. If one does not wish to be ashamed of what one said years later it behooves to consider one's words carefully. In so doing, one establishes good habits which carry over into real life. A win/win for the individual and for society. And after all. We live in societies.

The question to ask is: "Do we want a better America?" If the answer is yes it is up to us to create that.

You can’t change those who don’t think they need to change. In fact, they think you are the problem. Go find one asshole poster here and change their mind. Good luck.

 

[Peacenik]

You can’t change those who don’t think they need to change. In fact, they think you are the problem. Go find one asshole poster here and change their mind. Good luck.

No thanks. As I have said, there is no point in attempting to do that. Actually, there is nothing to be gained in even talking to them. But there is something to be lost.

Peace.

 

[Peacenik]

You can’t change those who don’t think they need to change. In fact, they think you are the problem. Go find one asshole poster here and change their mind. Good luck.

I would ask why engage with them? What is to be gained? It is certainly not to have a functional discussion. And since their character is already known there is nothing to be learned there. There is simply nothing to be gained from interacting with people who only want to dump on you.

It's like seeing a button on the wall with a label: "Push here for online abuse," and repeatedly pushing the button.

 

[devildavid]

No thanks. As I have said, there is no point in attempting to do that. Actually, there is nothing to be gained in even talking to them. But there is something to be lost.

Peace.

I know why you won’t. Because it is a fool’s errand. Yet you keep insisting that they are all really good people deep down. Until you demonstrate this, your claim is a fantasy.

 

[Peacenik]

I know why you won’t. Because it is a fool’s errand. Yet you keep insisting that they are all really good people deep down. Until you demonstrate this, your claim is a fantasy.

I did not say precisely that. I have said there are good people on both sides. There are also bad people on both sides. Just being realistic.

I also believe there are more bad people on the right. So many hate groups. So much racism, xenophobia, anti-gay, anti-government, anti-immigrant.

Looks to me like a lotta white men on the right are simply resentful that women have come so far in this world, and so have other cultures and immigrant backgrounds. It makes some white men feel like they are being left behind. That is not the case, of course. It is simply that white male domination of our society is slipping away. They don't like it. Insecure people want to have some powerful advantage. They fear being equal with others, even others who are different from them.

There are a lot of white male Americans whose fathers and grandfathers had a lot more power during their time due to racism and male dominance following WWII. Today's rural white males and others have seen the transformation and they don't like it. Feel like they are getting cheated out of what was due to them. They blame the left for it.

Anyone who comes along and talks about equality and fairness for all reminds them of their social resentment. Chauvinist types are going to unload on anybody who reminds them of what they don't like to see happening. And they don't always admit it. People are good at substituting issues to mask their true feelings, sometimes even from themselves. Tucker Carlson is good at providing many other reasons to hate liberals or the government. They like Tucker.

Nobody from the left, no matter what reasoning is used, is going to get them to back off. It's emotional. It's not rational.

As soon as an individual has been identified to be this unreasonable there is no point in talking to them any further. All that a polite person needs to know has already been revealed.

That doesn't mean that someone who acts like that in an online forum can't mesh well with others, be kind, be a productive taxpayer, churchgoer and respected in their neighborhood. So is this a good person or a bad person? Or maybe just somebody with issues. Who doesn't have issues? This person could be a relative, a friend, a neighbor; Somebody who, if seen, would get a smile and a friendly wave. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the people in online forums are acquainted with one another in real life but do not know it.

We/they thinking is short sided. There's a whole political spectrum. Politics is interesting like that. People agree on some things, disagree on others.That's fine when people can talk like equals. Making things personal crosses a line. That's not talking about politics at all after that line is crossed. And there is no way to maintain superiority without making things personal. Attempts to intimidate, that kind of thing.

 

[devildavid]

I did not say precisely that. I have said there are good people on both sides. There are also bad people on both sides. Just being realistic.

I also believe there are more bad people on the right. So many hate groups. So much racism, xenophobia, anti-gay, anti-government, anti-immigrant.

Looks to me like a lotta white men on the right are simply resentful that women have come so far in this world, and so have other cultures and immigrant backgrounds. It makes some white men feel like they are being left behind. That is not the case, of course. It is simply that white male domination of our society is slipping away. They don't like it. Insecure people want to have some powerful advantage. They fear being equal with others, even others who are different from them.

There are a lot of white male Americans whose fathers and grandfathers had a lot more power during their time due to racism and male dominance following WWII. Today's rural white males and others have seen the transformation and they don't like it. Feel like they are getting cheated out of what was due to them. They blame the left for it.

Anyone who comes along and talks about equality and fairness for all reminds them of their social resentment. Chauvinist types are going to unload on anybody who reminds them of what they don't like to see happening. And they don't always admit it. People are good at substituting issues to mask their true feelings, sometimes even from themselves. Tucker Carlson is good at providing many other reasons to hate liberals or the government. They like Tucker.

Nobody from the left, no matter what reasoning is used, is going to get them to back off. It's emotional. It's not rational.

As soon as an individual has been identified to be this unreasonable there is no point in talking to them any further. All that a polite person needs to know has already been revealed.

That doesn't mean that someone who acts like that in an online forum can't mesh well with others, be kind, be a productive taxpayer, churchgoer and respected in their neighborhood. So is this a good person or a bad person? Or maybe just somebody with issues. Who doesn't have issues? This person could be a relative, a friend, a neighbor; Somebody who, if seen, would get a smile and a friendly wave. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the people in online forums are acquainted with one another in real life but do not know it.

We/they thinking is short sided. There's a whole political spectrum. Politics is interesting like that. People agree on some things, disagree on others.That's fine when people can talk like equals. Making things personal crosses a line. That's not talking about politics at all after that line is crossed. And there is no way to maintain superiority without making things personal. Attempts to intimidate, that kind of thing.

There are decent people and there are assholes. Most people are not very political at all. Turns out that the asshole population is much larger than optimists like you believe. There is a large part of the population that has zero interest in discussing political solutions. They just want to stoke a culture war because they fear change. And they want the asshole way to be the only way. The best hope is that maybe many of them will die out and the next generations will not carry on the asshole tradition. I do have some hope that this will be the case, although I probably won’t live long enough to see it happen.

 

[Peacenik]

There are decent people and there are assholes. Most people are not very political at all. Turns out that the asshole population is much larger than optimists like you believe. There is a large part of the population that has zero interest in discussing political solutions. They just want to stoke a culture war because they fear change. And they want the asshole way to be the only way. The best hope is that maybe many of them will die out and the next generations will not carry on the asshole tradition. I do have some hope that this will be the case, although I probably won’t live long enough to see it happen.

It may seem there are more because abusive extremists tend to be far more outspoken; while good people often just remain quiet and reserved. It could be that there are actually more good people than bad. I believe that is the more likely case.

 

[devildavid]

It may seem there are more because abusive extremists tend to be far more outspoken; while good people often just remain quiet and reserved. It could be that there are actually more good people than bad. I believe that is the more likely case.

I have found that unfortunately getting to know someone better just reveals things about them that you wish you never found out. The percentage of good people is lower than you think.