[W:268] [W:288]More Senseless Gun Violence

[Bum]

SPPD has three in custody.

Minnesota massacre: Police arrest three people in shooting that killed one, injured 14

Three men have been arrested in connection with a shooting inside a Saint Paul, Minnesota, bar early Sunday morning left 14 people injured and one person dead, according to authorities.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Rich2018]

Trump was an enemy of the Democrats and many Republicans.

Trump was the enemy of everyone but himself

He was a and is an enemy of democracy.

...we don't have democracy in the USA, we have a constitutional republic

Degree is political science you say ?
This BS proves that you don't

There are two kinds of democracy:
Direct Democracy (sometimes called "Pure" democracy)
Representative Democracy (sometimes called "Indirect democracy)

Do you know the difference ?

If you believe a Constitutional Republic and a Democracy are so different, can you name a single Democracy out of the circa 200 sovereign states in the world ?


(Nb: the "Constitutional" bit means it's a democracy).

 

[DebateChallenge]

lol.... ****ing hilarious.

If you ever end up starving don't expect me or anybody else who has stored up food to give you any.

So, the background check idea really does apply.

This is relevant how?

 

[DebateChallenge]

LOL, what, Russia and China ?

No, Japan and Cyprus.

The UK has banned more guns than most, yet there is no sign that it is turning into a totalitarian dictatorship.

Good for them, you really should've stayed.

Urban myth that you probably once heard and swallowed whole because of your anti-Democrat prejudice:


"Posts on social media make the claim that Senator Kamala Harris, proposed an executive order to enact gun control legislation. This claim is false, since it attributes a fictitious quote to Harris and misrepresents her public remarks on the matter.
The full text of the posts is as follows: “If elected & you don’t surrender your guns, I will sign an executive order & the police will show up at your door"
Reuters found no examples of Harris ever saying this direct quote. The quote is likely a misinterpretation of public remarks she has made about executive orders she would take regarding gun safety laws."

Fact check: Kamala Harris's proposed executive order on gun control misrepresented

Posts on social media make the claim that Senator Kamala Harris, recently chosen to be the Democratic Party’s vice presidential nominee, proposed an executive order to enact gun control legislation that would entail law enforcement “show[ing] up at your door.” This claim...

www.reuters.com

Or are you going to say you don't trust the Reuters News Agency now ?

No, I just don't trust Kamala.

LOL, you don't surprise me at all.

What's so funny about having extra food?

Being the most popular round, it makes sense to hoard that caliber and guns that are chambered for it

I do have buckets full of 9mm rounds but its not a caliber I use that much any more. I prefer the more powerful 10mm. During the pandemic 9mm ammo was one of the hardest calibers to find but that didn't concern me because as I said, I don't use that round all that much today.

A 9mm round has perfectly good stopping power.

Depends where you hit the bad guy. Also there are other factors that can come into play such as if the bad guy is wearing body armor.

It's why polls are published with a margin for error.

The larger the sample, the more accurate it is

"Because surveys only talk to a sample of the population, we know that the result probably won’t exactly match the “true” result that we would get if we interviewed everyone in the population. The margin of sampling error describes how close we can reasonably expect a survey result to fall relative to the true population value. A margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points at the 95% confidence level means that if we fielded the same survey 100 times, we would expect the result to be within 3 percentage points of the true population value 95 of those times."

5 key things to know about the margin of error in election polls

Some statistical rules of thumb that smart consumers might think apply in polls are more nuanced than they seem. As is often true in life, it’s complicated.

www.pewresearch.org

You clearly don't understand how polling works ?

I do know how polling works, I've got a background in sociology. Do you have such a background? Do you even have much of an education?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Comparing cars and guns gives a false impression. Guns are weapons and cars are not. Cars are essential for survival for the vast majority of the population and guns are not.

Cars are not weapons? On the contrary:

Vehicle-ramming attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

False. How about Australia, Japan and the UK?

What about them? There is no indication that when such countries enacted strict gun control that it had any effect on crime, and if bad guys don't have access to guns they just use other means, you see that in such countries.

 

[Rich2018]

No, Japan and Cyprus.

You had also mentioned Russia and China - please be more specific
Japan and Cyprus are not totalitarian dictatorships - not even close

Though I know your definition of a "Police State" is one where guns are banned, but I'm not talking about your personal language/definitions.

Good for them, you really should've stayed.

Why shouldn't you leave ?

No, I just don't trust Kamala.

Having been caught out swallowing a lie about her, from the RW media
It was NewsMax that you said you're getting your news from now ?

Do you accept that your claim about Kamala is false and a lie based on RW misinformation ?

Why don't you trust her ?
You see to have no problem, trusting the lies the RW media spread about her
What has she done/said to earn your distrust - try to not use "news" from RW sources like NewsMax.

What's so funny about having extra food?

People who hoard generally are figures of derision - be it food or toilet rolls.

I do have buckets full of 9mm rounds but its not a caliber I use that much any more.

You do not surprise me.

I prefer the more powerful 10mm...

Each to his own, though it offers no appreciable benefit according to tables on performance I've seen.

Depends where you hit the bad guy. Also there are other factors that can come into play such as if the bad guy is wearing body armor.

Then I would advise you not to get involved in a gun battle with such a man (or woman for that matter).

I do know how polling works, I've got a background in sociology. Do you have such a background? Do you even have much of an education?

Not according to you posts

I have studied sociology (and psychology) yes, though that has nothing to do with polling.
And I have a Bachelor's of Arts (BA) degree with Honours.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Japan and Cyprus are not totalitarian dictatorships - not even close

When I mentioned Japan and Cyprus I was mentioning countries that functioned on a democracy that had banned guns, you asked for examples of such countries and although Japan and Cyprus haven't banned all guns, they've come close.

Why shouldn't you leave ?

Because I like it here AND because I was born here.

Having been caught out swallowing a lie about her, from the RW media
It was NewsMax that you said you're getting your news from now ?

Do you accept that your claim about Kamala is false and a lie based on RW misinformation ?

Why don't you trust her ?
You see to have no problem, trusting the lies the RW media spread about her
What has she done/said to earn your distrust - try to not use "news" from RW sources like NewsMax.

If you want to trust Kamala that's your choice. If you want to be naive that's your choice.

People who hoard generally are figures of derision - be it food or toilet rolls.

And provided they've got the money to afford the food, toilet rolls, or whatever else they hoard, and provided the stores will sell it to them, they have the right to hoard.

Then I would advise you not to get involved in a gun battle with such a man (or woman for that matter).

I would advise that too, but you don't always get to choose what battles you will be in.

Not according to you posts

I have studied sociology (and psychology) yes, though that has nothing to do with polling.
And I have a Bachelor's of Arts (BA) degree with Honours.

If you have studied sociology then you would know that polls are taught early on when you start studying the field.

 

[Rich2018]

When I mentioned Japan and Cyprus I was mentioning countries that functioned on a democracy that had banned guns...

Most, if not all democracies have banned guns to some extent - and none of them are close to being a dictatorship
The one exception to this, the USA, is the one that recently came closest to one in the post election attempts by Trump to fight tooth & nail to hang on to power - and manifested itself most dramatically with the J6 insurrection riot.

Because I like it here AND because I was born here.

And I like it here
Would you cease to like it here if guns were banned ?

If you want to trust Kamala that's your choice. If you want to be naive that's your choice.

Why is trusting Kamala, naïve ?

You said:

Kamala herself said that if she was president she would give congress 100 days to pass various gun laws and if they don't she would take executive action.

Do you STILL believe that, after I presented you with a link to a news story, showing it to be false ?
If not, what other things do you believe about her, and what is their source ? (please don't say NewsMax).

And provided they've got the money to afford the food, toilet rolls, or whatever else they hoard, and provided the stores will sell it to them, they have the right to hoard.

No-one said they didn't have the right to makes themselves look foolish.

I would advise that too, but you don't always get to choose what battles you will be in.

I would advise you to follow government advice. In the event of being caught in an active shooter situation, your options should be:

Run
Hide
Fight

In that order.

If you have studied sociology then you would know that polls are taught early on when you start studying the field.

No they're not, as I said polls have nothing to do with sociology
If you dispute this, please provide a link to a source that says it does.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Most, if not all democracies have banned guns to some extent - and none of them are close to being a dictatorship

You wanted examples of countries that were democracies that have banned all guns, I gave you two examples of countries that have come close.

And I like it here

Apparently you don't, you like stuff in the U.K. better. You make it very obvious that you like the U.K.'s gun laws better. You also said in previous posts that you like the fact that they use roundabouts as opposed to traffic lights in the U.K. as well as some other stuff about the U.K. that you like better than the USA about.

Would you cease to like it here if guns were banned ?

Gun rights aren't the only reason I like the USA, so no.

Why is trusting Kamala, naïve ?

Because she's a nutball.

No-one said they didn't have the right to makes themselves look foolish.

When you're at the store fighting over the last roll of toilet paper and/or the last can of food, we will see who looks foolish.

This is what you call foolish:

I would advise you to follow government advice. In the event of being caught in an active shooter situation, your options should be:

Run
Hide
Fight

In that order.

Well yes, my first course of action would be to find good cover, running and hiding. From that I would engage the shooter, fighting.

No they're not, as I said polls have nothing to do with sociology
If you dispute this, please provide a link to a source that says it does.

Im the source. In college I majored in sociology before switching too psychology.

 

[Rich2018]

You wanted examples of countries that were democracies that have banned all guns, I gave you two examples of countries that have come close.

No I didn't - stop putting words in my mouth
Most, if not all democracies have banned guns to some extent - and none of them are close to being a dictatorship

YOU have made the claim that countries that ban guns are "police states" and that banning guns was the first thing that dictatorships do.

So, what democracies in the developed world, that have banned guns, have turned into totalitarian dictatorships ?

Apparently you don't, you like stuff in the U.K. better....

Beer and football are better
The weather and food are better in the USA

Out of interest, is any country, anywhere, better than the USA in ant respect whatsoever ?

You make it very obvious that you like the U.K.'s gun laws better.

I do

You also said in previous posts that you like the fact that they use roundabouts as opposed to traffic lights in the U.K.

Yep
Plus the UK is better at road safety generally (probably because of driving on the left)
UK power plugs are better
UK tax laws are better
British music is better



A video made by two Americans. But you've never been to the UK have you (in fact I doubt if you've ever left the USA) and you probably think the USA is the best country in the world.

...Gun rights aren't the only reason I like the USA, so no.

What other things do you think are better in the USA (in your experience).

Because she's a nutball.

Your quick to slander, slow to substantiate - again you post no evidence

Do you still believe what you wrote about her giving Congress 100 days before seizing guns...or have you accepted that as a lie/urban myth ?

When you're at the store fighting over the last roll of toilet paper and/or the last can of food, we will see who looks foolish.

And you'll pull out your Glock and get the last roll....
...back in the real world.

This is what you call foolish:

People come to blows over Wal-Mart's "Black Friday" sales every year.

Well yes, my first course of action would be to find good cover, running and hiding. From that I would engage the shooter, fighting

No it wouldn't, it would be to run like hell

Im the source. In college I majored in sociology before switching too psychology.

You are not a source, you're just some guy off the internet
Please cite a real source...I'm sure you learned in college to cite real life sociologists and psychologists rather than submit your own opinion.

 

[goldkam]

Cars are not weapons? On the contrary:

Vehicle-ramming attack - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You have taken my comments out of context. Anything can be used as a weapon. My point is around what it is was designed to do.
A car is not designed to be a weapon. A gun is. It is that simple.

Prove me wrong.

What about them? There is no indication that when such countries enacted strict gun control that it had any effect on crime, and if bad guys don't have access to guns they just use other means, you see that in such countries.

Someone with these kind of views clearly is unwilling to do any research, accept any sort of evidence given to them or be rational or reasonable. Australia is about to open their borders my suggestion would to book a flight and visit a country that has some of the strictest gun control measures in place and experience it first hand. It is highly successful. It has deterred gun related crime significantly. And the vast majority of the population support it.

Lets look at facts:
- In the seven years after the National Firearms Agreement firearm suicides declined by 57 percent
- In the seven years after the National Firearms Agreement firearm suicides declined by 42 percent
- A study from two leading academics from Australian Universities found buying back 3,500 guns correlated with a 74 percent drop in firearm suicides. Non-gun suicides didn't increase to make up the decline.

You remove the gun, you remove the risk of a gun being used. It is that simple.

These are facts. Good luck disproving them.

 

[calamity]

You have taken my comments out of context. Anything can be used as a weapon. My point is around what it is was designed to do.
A car is not designed to be a weapon. A gun is. It is that simple.

Prove me wrong.

Someone with these kind of views clearly is unwilling to do any research, accept any sort of evidence given to them or be rational or reasonable. Australia is about to open their borders my suggestion would to book a flight and visit a country that has some of the strictest gun control measures in place and experience it first hand. It is highly successful. It has deterred gun related crime significantly. And the vast majority of the population support it.

Lets look at facts:
- In the seven years after the National Firearms Agreement firearm suicides declined by 57 percent
- In the seven years after the National Firearms Agreement firearm suicides declined by 42 percent
- A study from two leading academics from Australian Universities found buying back 3,500 guns correlated with a 74 percent drop in firearm suicides. Non-gun suicides didn't increase to make up the decline.

You remove the gun, you remove the risk of a gun being used. It is that simple.

These are facts. Good luck disproving them.

The gun zealots always lie about two things: cars and swimming pools.

 

[Rich2018]

The gun zealots always lie about two things: cars and swimming pools.

Plus kitchen knives.

 

[TurtleDude]

You have taken my comments out of context. Anything can be used as a weapon. My point is around what it is was designed to do.
A car is not designed to be a weapon. A gun is. It is that simple.

Prove me wrong.

Someone with these kind of views clearly is unwilling to do any research, accept any sort of evidence given to them or be rational or reasonable. Australia is about to open their borders my suggestion would to book a flight and visit a country that has some of the strictest gun control measures in place and experience it first hand. It is highly successful. It has deterred gun related crime significantly. And the vast majority of the population support it.

Lets look at facts:
- In the seven years after the National Firearms Agreement firearm suicides declined by 57 percent
- In the seven years after the National Firearms Agreement firearm suicides declined by 42 percent
- A study from two leading academics from Australian Universities found buying back 3,500 guns correlated with a 74 percent drop in firearm suicides. Non-gun suicides didn't increase to make up the decline.

You remove the gun, you remove the risk of a gun being used. It is that simple.

These are facts. Good luck disproving them.

remove drugs and no one dies over drug overdoses. Tell me how banning crack, heroin, crystal meth and cocaine has worked out

 

[Rich2018]

remove drugs and no one dies over drug overdoses. Tell me how banning crack, heroin, crystal meth and cocaine has worked out

Another straw-man and one that you've been corrected on before:

Drugs (including alcohol) and guns are NOT the same when it comes to bans:

In the UK, hard drugs and guns are both banned, but whilst gun crime is extremely rare, sadly the UK has a huge drug problem.

 

[Fledermaus]

Another straw-man and one that you've been corrected on before:

Drugs (including alcohol) and guns are NOT the same when it comes to bans:

In the UK, hard drugs and guns are both banned, but whilst gun crime is extremely rare, sadly the UK has a huge drug problem.

Analogy.

 

[TurtleDude]

Another straw-man and one that you've been corrected on before:

Drugs (including alcohol) and guns are NOT the same when it comes to bans:

In the UK, hard drugs and guns are both banned, but whilst gun crime is extremely rare, sadly the UK has a huge drug problem.

and yes, Brits never had much history of gun crimes. if they did, your silly gun laws would be as impotent as your drug laws

 

[Rich2018]

and yes, Brits never had much history of gun crimes. if they did, your silly gun laws would be as impotent as your drug laws

Because guess what, guns were never as abundant in British society.

QED: It's the sheer number of guns in society that is responsible - we need to drain the swamp and rid society of the guns*


*Subject to exemptions previous discussed.

 

[RF667799]

Because guess what, guns were never as abundant in British society.

QED: It's the sheer number of guns in society that is responsible - we need to drain the swamp and rid society of the guns*


*Subject to exemptions previous discussed.

You determine guns are so evil and so destructive of society that they should be banned. Yet you would have some exemptions. Perhaps many exemptions, as you allow they will be arbitrary.

This indicates you are satisfied with some level of societal destruction.

What is that level?

 

[TurtleDude]

Because guess what, guns were never as abundant in British society.

QED: It's the sheer number of guns in society that is responsible - we need to drain the swamp and rid society of the guns*


*Subject to exemptions previous discussed.

we need to drain the swamp of criminals-and those who want to make their lives easier

 

[Rich2018]

we need to drain the swamp of criminals-and those who want to make their lives easier

Good luck with that. There's a poster on here who says something like raising living standards in poor areas would help to reduce crime and I agree. Against the howls of protest from the right.

In the meantime, and until a utopian society based on equal access to wealth is established, we'll just have to accept that crime will exist

What we can do is make those criminals less dangerous by disarming them.

 

[Fledermaus]

Except bans don't do that.

 

[Rich2018]

...these are facts. Good luck disproving them.

He's probably working on a reason why they don't quite apply to the debate.

 

[calamity]

He's probably working on a reason why they don't quite apply to the debate.

It's a challenge.

 

[Rich2018]

It's a challenge.

Yes, but given his abhorrence at admitting error, he'll give it a go.