[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

[Minerva]

great question but lots of unknowns.. this (below) from a day ago by Russia's UN Ambassador Gennady Gatilov

Russia rules out peace deal to end Ukraine war

Ambassador Gennady Gatilov warns Moscow expects a prolonged conflict

www.ft.com

Gennady Gatilov, Russia’s permanent representative to the UN in Geneva, told the Financial Times that the UN should be playing a bigger role in attempts to end the conflict and accused the US and other Nato countries of pressing Ukraine to walk away from negotiations. There would be no direct talks between Putin and Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he said. “Now, I do not see any possibility for diplomatic contacts,” Gatilov said. “And the more the conflict goes on, the more difficult it will be to have a diplomatic solution.”
~~
Erdogan is quoted in that article as well. My feeling is Ukraine has been getting everything it wants and more -which has escalated the war.
Putin just said he's going to add 137k forces this year yet..

It's not really demands by either side yet, though Russia has demanded an end of weapons escalation
Z. has been listening to his own press adoration, but he's getting everything and more and probably has worked himself into a mental state where he believes he can throw out Russians

Bottom line there has to be some diplomatic contacts thru the UN or a 3rd party to establish the fact there even ARE talks available before anything can be seriously considered

I'm sorry. I tried to wade through this and just couldn't.

The source you link to is a subscribe only site. I'm not paying.

From what I gather Russia's rep to the UN is upset that NATO is not playing the way Putin anticipated and that the UN is not acting as a third party for negotiations.

The armed hostilities were initiated by Putin, there are steps he could take to show good faith and open clear lines of communications if he wanted but has chosen not to do so.

I can describe one of a few ways Putin could do this if he desired.

 

[Tangmo]

German leaders must understand that by working with Russia, both nations (the largest in Europe) will greatly benefit. Not only that, but as Russia is the largest nation on Earth it has the most natural resources. Highly industrialized Germany could greatly help Russia develop a plan to help stabilize climate change by absorbing CO2 and reducing methane boil off from Siberian permafrost. This could help all humanity.

Russia has more natural resources than any nation on Earth. Industrialization is wonderful for making tanks, guns, bombs, poisons, vehicles, etc. but if you don't have natural resources to make them (e.g. iron, precious metals, lumber, food, coal, natural gas), the industrial machine dies very quickly as Hitler learned. This may happen again to Germany very soon as energy costs skyrocket and suppliers dwindle due to the sanctions against Russia.

Historically, many nations that were former enemies have had rapprochement and normalized relations. This happened to France and Russia decades after Napoleon's catastrophic defeat. It happened between the North and South of the US. Even Britain and the US ultimately put aside their differences — so much so that they were allies in WWI and WWII. However, for complex reasons, this has never happened between Germany and Russia after WWII.




The essence of Christianity is forgiveness and love. Those who will reside with the Holy Spirit will ultimately have to forgive and let go of the past so we can all live harmoniously.


Europeans were mostly Orthodox Christians at one point in their shared histories. The globalists they seek to destroy Orthodox Christianity and the true and transcendent means of ultimate freedom (given to us all from God) which they despise.

Thus, in their faulty and maniacal vision, all nations on Earth are to be stripped of their sovereign rights and governed by an unelected and tiny "elite” who enslave all humanity in the "great reset.” To achieve this, nationalism (read: patriotism) is forbidden and made out to be a bad word.

German leaders who love their country must surely understand what is really going on globally and want to put a stop to it. The fact is that there is no way that the globalists can achieve their enslaving goals if Germany and Russia unite against this as strategic partners instead of fight as foolish adversaries.

Will Germany and Russia ever reconcile to aid Europe and vanquish the 'great reset?'

Highly industrialized Germany could greatly help Russia develop a plan to help stabilize climate change by absorbing CO2 and reducing methane boil off from Siberian

english.pravda.ru

Putin busted all that gibberish when he invaded Ukraine.

In Germany the Russia Hugging political parties AfD & Die Link are completely out in the cold. The long time Russia Hugging SPD and its miserable Ostpolitik ist kaput. And with the Putin-Merkel government now expired CDU-CSU don't dare roll over again because for 16 years their totally discredited leader Merkel has been BFF with Putin The Barbarian.

Greens, Free Democrats and the revived Union are leading the chastened Germany back into the West. Your ideology of a Russo-German Geostrategic Axis that's driven by the views of Bismarck ist kaput.

The central thesis of your ideology, ie, there can be peace in Europe only when Germany and Russia are joined in the mutually prosperous axis of natural resources and industrial-technological expertise, was blown to smithereens when Germany and Merkel did more than any single country and any single leader to enable the barbarian Putin to invade Ukraine.

Scholz leading the Traffic Light Coalition government can't communicate the new message so his chancellorship is increasingly in peril.

 

[anatta]

I'm sorry. I tried to wade through this and just couldn't.

The source you link to is a subscribe only site. I'm not paying.

From what I gather Russia's rep to the UN is upset that NATO is not playing the way Putin anticipated and that the UN is not acting as a third party for negotiations.

The armed hostilities was initiated by Putin, there are steps he could take to show good faith and open clear lines of communications if he wanted but has chosen not to do so.

I can describe one of a few ways Putin could do this if he desired.

ya somehow I got access ,but it's paywalled. so is Wall St Journal. i was looking for "Russian demands for peace talks"
and all i I kept getting was what are Kyiv's demands.
I tried to answer though there's no clear path for demands Even Ukraine in NATO (inevitable) was bartered before.
During the Cold War we always had lower level talks with the USSR with occasional summits of leadership meetings

 

[Hamish Howl]

ya somehow I got access ,but it's paywalled. so is Wall St Journal. i was looking for "Russian demands for peace talks"
and all i I kept getting was what are Kyiv's demands.
I tried to answer though there's no clear path for demands Even Ukraine in NATO (inevitable) was bartered before.
During the Cold War we always had lower level talks with the USSR with occasional summits of leadership meetings

Have you considered the idea that nobody is interested in talking?

 

[Minerva]

ya somehow I got access ,but it's paywalled. so is Wall St Journal. i was looking for "Russian demands for peace talks"
and all i I kept getting was what are Kyiv's demands.
I tried to answer though there's no clear path for demands Even Ukraine in NATO (inevitable) was bartered before.
During the Cold War we always had lower level talks with the USSR with occasional summits of leadership meetings

Yeah, it's easy to get lost in the forest due to the trees being in the way.

Putin could have his UN rep ask for a special appearance before either the General Body or the Security Council. (GB would be better)

The rep could then announce a scaled back operations of Russian forces leading to a cease fire.

Russia's position would be they would not fire across the current front and would not bring resupplies beyond food, shelter, clothing, medicine..etc to the front. They would give their front line troops shelter, food and medical care but nothing that goes "bang".

Things that go "BOOM" would not be staged any closer than "XXXX" kilometers from the front lines. Means of prisoner swaps for wounded would be established.

In return UAF will do the same, with similar constraints.

Russia would ask for a third party, to be selected by a simple majority of the (a. GB or b. SC) to act as a mediator.

The first move must come from Putin. As were the first hostilities.

I don't think anyone in Ukraine is interested in picking up the phone. Currently the tide is their favor.

 

[maxparrish]

Have you considered the idea that nobody is interested in talking?

The best opportunity for agreement came early in the war, when both sides were shaken by the reaction of the other. Kiev resisted far more than Putin expected, sanctions were far stronger than was predicted, and thousands of protestors in Russia expressed a deep fear of the consequences. Zelensky was equally shocked, having not really believed that an offense to take over the country in name and via proxy was in the works.

Both seemed more flexible at that point; Zelensky desperately offering a 15 year moratorium on settling the Crimea question and a commitment to complete neutrality. What he wished, in turn, was a real and enforceable mechanism against Russia should it violate that treaty by future aggression. Putin wouldn't support such, as he wanted a future option to invade a helpless and demiliterized country if he should so deem of value. That, and wanting more of the Donbas compelled Putin to say "The time is not quite right for negotiations".

So here we are (as I predicted); a stalemate in a long term war looking much like Korea. Sanctions don't seem to be working as well as promised, the Russian population has grown more comfortable (even apathetic as state television coverage has lost about 20 percent of viewership) and Ukrainian mobilization and some heavy weapons cause damage, but not a change in occupied territory.

Putin feels very comfortable playing the long game, as do Russians as a whole. And as Putin seems unwilling to try a full mobilization (and that would come as a shock to a populace that has become accustomed to a war that does not directly affect them) he is going to play for time. Using industry to restock, trying greater incentives for recruitment. Eventually he will Russify the territories he has gained, and perhaps expects the "war" to just be an extension of the same conflict of 2014...never ending low level violence.

Unless and until Ukraine can be trained and equipped to undertake full throated offensive operations, and take back some of the south or eastern regions then I don't expect a change...but let's face it, Putin has a whole lot more persistence than fickle western democracies. And as long as Putin can destroy entire cities, without retaliation, one should expect a Russian victory in the long run.

Unless, of course, the west finds the will and resources to mobilize its arms industry and provide mass training to Ukrainians. Double or triple the production of HIMAR missiles, including ATACMS, provide several hundred SP Guns, 500 modern tanks, anti-submarine hunters, and a fully capable SAM system for the country and its a different ball game.

 

[Variant]

The best opportunity for agreement came early in the war, when both sides were shaken by the reaction of the other. Kiev resisted far more than Putin expected, sanctions were far stronger than was predicted, and thousands of protestors in Russia expressed a deep fear of the consequences. Zelensky was equally shocked, having not really believed that an offense to take over the country in name and via proxy was in the works.

Both seemed for flexible at that point; Zelensky offering a 15 year moratorium on settling the Crimea question and a commitment to complete neutrality. What he wished, in turn, was a real and enforceable mechanism against Russia should it violate that treaty by future aggression. Putin wouldn't support such, as he wanted a future option to invade a helpless and demiliterized country if he should so deem of value. That, and wanting more of the Donbas compelled Putin to say "The time is not quite right for negotiations".

So here we are (as I predicted); a stalemate in a long term war looking much like Korea. Sanctions don't seem to be working as well as promised, the Russian population has grown more comfortable (even apathetic as state television coverage has lost about 20 percent of viewership) and Ukrainian mobilization and some heavy weapons cause damage, but not a change in occupied territory.

Putin feels very comfortable playing the long game, as do Russians as a whole. And as Putin seems unwilling to try a full mobilization (and that would come as a shock to a populace that has become accustomed to a war that does not directly affect them) he is going to play for time. Using industry to restock, trying greater incentives for recruitment. Eventually he will Russify the territories he has gained, and perhaps expects the "war" to just be an extension of the same conflict of 2014...never ending low level violence.

Unless and until Ukraine can be trained and equipped to undertake full throated offensive operations, and take back some of the south or eastern regions then I don't expect a change...but let's face it, Putin has a whole lot more persistence than fickle western democracies. And as long as Putin can destroy entire cities, without retaliation, one should expect a Russian victory in the long run.

Both sides feel they deserve more than they can currently accomplish, so they fight on.

Russian combat effectiveness and the ability to field personnel is what is undergoing attrition not their countries will to proceed.

 

[Minerva]

The best opportunity for agreement came early in the war, when both sides were shaken by the reaction of the other. Kiev resisted far more than Putin expected, sanctions were far stronger than was predicted, and thousands of protestors in Russia expressed a deep fear of the consequences. Zelensky was equally shocked, having not really believed that an offense to take over the country in name and via proxy was in the works.

Both seemed for flexible at that point; Zelensky offering a 15 year moratorium on settling the Crimea question and a commitment to complete neutrality. What he wished, in turn, was a real and enforceable mechanism against Russia should it violate that treaty by future aggression. Putin wouldn't support such, as he wanted a future option to invade a helpless and demiliterized country if he should so deem of value. That, and wanting more of the Donbas compelled Putin to say "The time is not quite right for negotiations".

So here we are (as I predicted); a stalemate in a long term war looking much like Korea. Sanctions don't seem to be working as well as promised, the Russian population has grown more comfortable (even apathetic as state television coverage has lost about 20 percent of viewership) and Ukrainian mobilization and some heavy weapons cause damage, but not a change in occupied territory.

Putin feels very comfortable playing the long game, as do Russians as a whole. And as Putin seems unwilling to try a full mobilization (and that would come as a shock to a populace that has become accustomed to a war that does not directly affect them) he is going to play for time. Using industry to restock, trying greater incentives for recruitment. Eventually he will Russify the territories he has gained, and perhaps expects the "war" to just be an extension of the same conflict of 2014...never ending low level violence.

Unless and until Ukraine can be trained and equipped to undertake full throated offensive operations, and take back some of the south or eastern regions then I don't expect a change...but let's face it, Putin has a whole lot more persistence than fickle western democracies. And as long as Putin can destroy entire cities, without retaliation, one should expect a Russian victory in the long run.

Can't say that I like this analysis but can't really fault it.

I do think that NATO and the Western Allies are in it for longer than given credit for. Each piece of semi modern equipment that Russia loses is a step closer to a resolution. I understand they are loosing armament sales due to their performance in Ukraine and the fact that sanctions have crippled their ability to fill those orders.

 

[yankintx]

You're not the only one seeing possible analogy to '89-'91.

As long as it's not another greedy drunk Yeltsin to pick up the pieces after. I don't have much faith in Russian Democracy, the Russian people have zero appreciation for it, and seem to prefer the whip.

 

[maxparrish]

Can't say that I like this analysis but can't really fault it.

I do think that NATO and the Western Allies are in it for longer than given credit for. Each piece of semi modern equipment that Russia loses is a step closer to a resolution. I understand they are loosing armament sales due to their performance in Ukraine and the fact that sanctions have crippled their ability to fill those orders.

Perhaps it is most instructive to ask, what would compel Putin and/or Russia to settle other than full Ukrainian surrender?

1) Sanctions must bite harder. Should the Yale study be correct, we ought to see some serious economic pain this spring. I have many reasons to believe that it won't happen, but if academic economists are worth the six figure salaries and lavish benefits they are given they should be right.

2) Losing. For Russia to settle they must be, however slowly, lose. Minimally this means taking back an area they covet, such as Kherson or part of the southern coastline. Or perhaps the Kharkov region. Or Mariupol. Putin will not settle if he gets to keep what he's got, and turn them into Russian provinces.

3) Russian national pain and disillusionment. Aside from sanctions, relentless HIMAR pain inflicted on the Russian populace within (for example) 100 miles of the border would have the dual benefit of further crippling Russian military supply lines and causing more dissent in the Russian armed forces WITHOUT providing an emotional charge in Moscow or St. Petersburg for total war. As long as the power centers of Russia don't see themselves threatened, they will remain reluctant to fully mobilize. On the other hand, they and Russia in general will get plenty of pressure from affected Russian mayors and regional politicians to stop this nonsense.

4) A sudden perception of losing. As the Tet offensive in South Vietnam demonstrated, the sudden and fierce offensive throughout Vietnam demonstrated that they were far from beaten. The shock was so powerful and demoralizing that from that moment on, the US government realized they could not win that war and were looking for an off ramp. It didn't matter that this offense failed and virtually destroyed the Viet Cong as a fighting force (thus making the NVA the principle enemy), the perception of fighting a war that could not be won made the difference.

If one of those four conditions can be obtained, assuming the western powers are willing to provide the arms, supplies, and training to make it happen, then Russia will settle.

 

[maxparrish]

. As long as it's not another greedy drunk Yeltsin to pick up the pieces after. I don't have much faith in Russian Democracy, the Russian people have zero appreciation for it, and seem to prefer the whip.

I agree. Russians are not suitable for democracy, to them it is weakness and a luxury. One would think that after Stalin and communism these people would have an appreciation of freedom and a government of, by, and for the people. They don't.

Their culture is alien to that of the West. Consider the history of benevolent and service associations, all of which were spawned in the west in the 18th and 19th century and the majority in the United States and UK. From the Red Cross to the Odd Fellows in western societies they were devoted to mutual aid, public service, disaster relief, and character building and they flourished.

Not in Russia, of course. Late comers to civilization, the Russian cannot even imagine such mutual of altruistic association without an order to from the State, or a method of extracting a corrupt profit. At best, a few Russians imitate what has came natural to the protestant and catholic west.

If Helen Keller or Jane Adams or Albert Schweitzer were heroic in the west, for Russians their heroes are Stalin and Ivan the Terrible. Such is their incorrigible nature.

 

[anatta]

Yeah, it's easy to get lost in the forest due to the trees being in the way.

Putin could have his UN rep ask for a special appearance before either the General Body or the Security Council. (GB would be better)

The rep could then announce a scaled back operations of Russian forces leading to a cease fire.

Russia's position would be they would not fire across the current front and would not bring resupplies beyond food, shelter, clothing, medicine..etc to the front. They would give their front line troops shelter, food and medical care but nothing that goes "bang".

Things that go "BOOM" would not be staged any closer than "XXXX" kilometers from the front lines. Means of prisoner swaps for wounded would be established.

In return UAF will do the same, with similar constraints.

Russia would ask for a third party, to be selected by a simple majority of the (a. GB or b. SC) to act as a mediator.

The first move must come from Putin. As were the first hostilities.

I don't think anyone in Ukraine is interested in picking up the phone. Currently the tide is their favor.

no troop movement by anyone until a framework and details of course.

 

[btthegreat]

Perhaps it is most instructive to ask, what would compel Putin and/or Russia to settle other than full Ukrainian surrender?

1) Sanctions must bite harder. Should the Yale study be correct, we ought to see some serious economic pain this spring. I have many reasons to believe that it won't happen, but if academic economists are worth the six figure salaries and lavish benefits they are given they should be right.

2) Losing. For Russia to settle they must be, however slowly, lose. Minimally this means taking back an area they covet, such as Kherson or part of the southern coastline. Or perhaps the Kharkov region. Or Mariupol. Putin will not settle if he gets to keep what he's got, and turn them into Russian provinces.

3) Russian national pain and disillusionment. Aside from sanctions, relentless HIMAR pain inflicted on the Russian populace within (for example) 100 miles of the border would have the dual benefit of further crippling Russian military supply lines and causing more dissent in the Russian armed forces WITHOUT providing an emotional charge in Moscow or St. Petersburg for total war. As long as the power centers of Russia don't see themselves threatened, they will remain reluctant to fully mobilize. On the other hand, they and Russia in general will get plenty of pressure from affected Russian mayors and regional politicians to stop this nonsense.

4) A sudden perception of losing. As the Tet offensive in South Vietnam demonstrated, the sudden and fierce offensive throughout Vietnam demonstrated that they were far from beaten. The shock was so powerful and demoralizing that from that moment on, the US government realized they could not win that war and were looking for an off ramp. It didn't matter that this offense failed and virtually destroyed the Viet Cong as a fighting force (thus making the NVA the principle enemy), the perception of fighting a war that could not be won made the difference.

If one of those four conditions can be obtained, assuming the western powers are willing to provide the arms, supplies, and training to make it happen, then Russia will settle.

Putin's demise would be a great time for a foreign policy reset and that may come sooner than the above.

 

[anatta]

Have you considered the idea that nobody is interested in talking?

absolutely. and since the escalation of more advanced weapons after the Russian gains -Zelensky wants to counter attack
Russia doesnt want to talk either until Zelensky gets off the "total victory" path.

Earlier talks were allowed to just die -now there isn't even party to party dialog.
That's how wars explode.if Putin gets paranoid with the attacks on Crimea he could react because Crimea is Russian proper now for him.
no contact leads to paranoia - deserved or not . You at least needs back channels.

 

[Chomsky]

As long as it's not another greedy drunk Yeltsin to pick up the pieces after. I don't have much faith in Russian Democracy, the Russian people have zero appreciation for it,

That's the surprise to me! Though in their defense, they likely have been culturally indoctrinated.

and seem to prefer the whip.

Harsh! But, I do get what you're saying.

 

[yankintx]

Putin's demise would be a great time for a foreign policy reset and that may come sooner than the above.

Is it possible to OD on botox? 70 years old not a wrinkle. 62mg is the max one should have, he probably is receiving twice as much.

 

[Fledermaus]

ya somehow I got access ,but it's paywalled. so is Wall St Journal. i was looking for "Russian demands for peace talks"
and all i I kept getting was what are Kyiv's demands.
I tried to answer though there's no clear path for demands Even Ukraine in NATO (inevitable) was bartered before.
During the Cold War we always had lower level talks with the USSR with occasional summits of leadership meetings

I have to ask. Why is NATO supposed to be involved in Ukrainian decisions? NATO is a military organization.

The UN should be involved in the discussion. Not NATO.

 

[basionok]

Kinzhal hypersonic missiles struck a large underground warehouse of missiles and aviation ammo of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the village of Delyatyn in the Ivano-Frankivsk region. The attack took place on March 18 and came as a shock for the NATO command in the first place.

The Kinzhal missile then struck not just a warehouse, but one of the central storage bases for nuclear weapons, known as Object 711, or Ivano-Frankivsk-16. This object was built in 1955. The level of its protection was enough to withstand a nuclear bomb impact.

The facility was used to maintain nuclear warheads of strategic and tactical missiles of the Armed Forces of the USSR. In the early 1990s, the nuclear weapons stored at the facility were taken to Russia. The Ukrainian Defence Ministry Ministry then ordered to relocate most of the stocks of aviation and missile ammo from Western Ukraine to warehouses of Object 711.

It was reported that Object 711 was a whole military camp that had been built 150 meters under the ground and had two surface floors. It was considered to be one of the safest arsenals, until it was destroyed by the Kinzhal missile.

Russia's Kinzhal missiles are designed to destroy well-defended command posts, underground arsenals and even aircraft carriers. Missiles of this hypersonic complex are normally used for Iskander missile systems, but Kinzhal had them modernised for airborne use. Kinzhal missiles are currently launched from heavy MiG-31K fighter interceptor aircraft. In the future, they will be made part of the ammo of the strategic Tu-160M2, the Rossiiskaya Gazeta said.

The Kinzhal hypersonic missile is marked as Kh-47M2. Its technical characteristics are kept secret. It was only reported that the rocket is capable of flying at a speed that is 10-12 times the speed of sound.

The missile has perhaps the best homing system in the world. The system is entirely made from domestic components.

The video of the March 18 attack shows that the missile entered the ground almost vertically. Its speed was several kilometers per second, and the total mass was about 1,5 tons. With such a huge kinetic energy, the Kinzhal literally went deep under the ground for tens of meters, broke through the concrete floor of the arsenal and exploded inside. The energy of the explosion caused the ammo at the facility to explode as well. Object 711 was completely destroyed, but it was destroyed by a highly explosive conventional, rather than nuclear warhead.

The warehouse that the Kinzhal missile struck is located only 80 kilometers from the Romanian border. In 2016, Romania deployed the Aegis Ashore stationary missile defense system with US RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 (SM-3) missile interceptors. Since 2015, as many as three batteries, with eight SM-3 Block IB missiles in each of them, have been deployed at the Deveselu army base in Romania. According to the Americans, they are designed to intercept intercontinental ballistic missiles and warheads at atmospheric altitudes.

Russia's Kinzhal hypersonic missiles rattle NATO's nerves

Russia's Kinzhal missiles are designed to destroy well-defended command posts, underground arsenals and even aircraft carriers

english.pravda.ru

 

[Juin]

Putin's demise would be a great time for a foreign policy reset and that may come sooner than the above.

If wishes were horses. ...

It's up to the Russian people. It's their call. Of course Russians can also say the demise of the EU would be a great time for a reset; that would also be wishful thinking

 

[btthegreat]

If wishes were horses. ...

It's up to the Russian people. It's their call. Of course Russians can also say the demise of the EU would be a great time for a reset; that would also be wishful thinking

Sure they can get a petition going with lots of signatures and present it to Sergey Savostyanov and he will get a referendum on the ballot.

 

[Juin]

Sure they can get a petition going with lots of signatures and present it to Sergey Savostyanov and he will get a referendum on the ballot.

The point is that it is not up to you what they do. Russians do not change their governments to convenience the wesr.

 

[btthegreat]

The point is that it is not up to you what they do. Russians do not change their governments to convenience the wesr.

We are not discussing a change in govts, we are discussing a 'reset' on policy because those were the words I typed. I did not suggest anyone would do it for the convenience of the west ( words I did not type), rather, I figure a reset on a lethal, massively destructive and expensive war policy might by seen as plenty 'convenient' for Russia. Your point, sir, was it was up to the 'Russian people', because those were the words you typed. It was a laughable point.

 

[Jredbaron96]

 

[EnigmaO01]

Kinzhal hypersonic missiles struck a large underground warehouse of missiles and aviation ammo of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the village of Delyatyn in the Ivano-Frankivsk region. The attack took place on March 18 and came as a shock for the NATO command in the first place.

The Kinzhal missile then struck not just a warehouse, but one of the central storage bases for nuclear weapons, known as Object 711, or Ivano-Frankivsk-16. This object was built in 1955. The level of its protection was enough to withstand a nuclear bomb impact.

The facility was used to maintain nuclear warheads of strategic and tactical missiles of the Armed Forces of the USSR. In the early 1990s, the nuclear weapons stored at the facility were taken to Russia. The Ukrainian Defence Ministry Ministry then ordered to relocate most of the stocks of aviation and missile ammo from Western Ukraine to warehouses of Object 711.

It was reported that Object 711 was a whole military camp that had been built 150 meters under the ground and had two surface floors. It was considered to be one of the safest arsenals, until it was destroyed by the Kinzhal missile.

Russia's Kinzhal missiles are designed to destroy well-defended command posts, underground arsenals and even aircraft carriers. Missiles of this hypersonic complex are normally used for Iskander missile systems, but Kinzhal had them modernised for airborne use. Kinzhal missiles are currently launched from heavy MiG-31K fighter interceptor aircraft. In the future, they will be made part of the ammo of the strategic Tu-160M2, the Rossiiskaya Gazeta said.


The missile has perhaps the best homing system in the world. The system is entirely made from domestic components.

The video of the March 18 attack shows that the missile entered the ground almost vertically. Its speed was several kilometers per second, and the total mass was about 1,5 tons. With such a huge kinetic energy, the Kinzhal literally went deep under the ground for tens of meters, broke through the concrete floor of the arsenal and exploded inside. The energy of the explosion caused the ammo at the facility to explode as well. Object 711 was completely destroyed, but it was destroyed by a highly explosive conventional, rather than nuclear warhead.

The warehouse that the Kinzhal missile struck is located only 80 kilometers from the Romanian border. In 2016, Romania deployed the Aegis Ashore stationary missile defense system with US RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 (SM-3) missile interceptors. Since 2015, as many as three batteries, with eight SM-3 Block IB missiles in each of them, have been deployed at the Deveselu army base in Romania. According to the Americans, they are designed to intercept intercontinental ballistic missiles and warheads at atmospheric altitudes.

Russia's Kinzhal hypersonic missiles rattle NATO's nerves

Russia's Kinzhal missiles are designed to destroy well-defended command posts, underground arsenals and even aircraft carriers

english.pravda.ru

Oh sure not exactly the most trusted news source. Is this the same source that said 100 Himars had been destroyed where there is not even any remotely accurate evidence that Ukraine has anywhere that number? And March 18th? Does this even have any relevance today?

Pravda Report - Bias and Credibility

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[Yakshi]

The above video has English subtitles and might be worth watching.

So, Вечер, or Evening, hosted by Vladimir Solovyov, the guy who is always dressed like the maitre d' at a midscale restaurant that pretends to be upscale, has always shoveled pure propaganda. But this two-minute clip in my opinion illustrates a "typical russian argument."

First, the know-it-all attitude, implying that he has something big to show the viewer. ("Watch it! Watch it!")

The big reveal: a photo op of Scholz climbing onto a German tank.

And why would Scholz climb onto a tank?

Because--dun! dun! dun!--Hitler once did a similar photo op!

Throughout the big reveal, he can't help himself from exclaiming, "Oh! and вот! (there!)"

Then, right as Solovyov is about the turn the bullshit up to 11, he says, "So that nobody can be under any illusions!"

Scholz wants to be Hitler.

And how should russia respond?

Bomb Germany.

Solovyov said it, so russians will soon be repeating it everywhere, as if the thought was their own.