[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread (2 Viewers)

[Chomsky]

I do not think, have to check, that any NATO country uses dumb ammo for its long range guns.
A 155mm, as much as I know, is a smart round, a PGM, anything else would be throwing stones.

That I wasn't aware of, given what RU's been throwing around.

 

[Minerva]

I have read where the US is now considering sending tanks to Ukraine. A quick check shows we only have one Main Battle Tank (MBT) is service, three versions of the Abrams noted as the M1A1 AIM.V2/SA and M1A2B and M1A2C.
We have 2000 of them in active service and 3000 in storage.

From CNN:

3 hr 25 min ago

US may give Ukraine tanks in the future, senior US military official says​

From CNN's Michael Conte and Oren Liebermann

Tanks are “absolutely on the table” for the US to provide to Ukraine in the future, according to a senior US military official, but are not an option for the immediate fight because of issues with training, maintenance and sustainment.

“We’re looking at the entirety of the Ukrainian armed forces and considering for the future what capabilities they will need and how the US and our allies will be able to support Ukraine in building out those capabilities,” said the official on a background call with reporters.

The US is currently not considering providing Ukraine weapons with longer ranges than the Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) that are used with the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS), although the official would not say if such weapons would be on the table in the future.

 

[JANFU]

Seems even the Russian field officers are being candid about how the operations are going in Ukraine...
Sux to be us....Russia Can't Even Think of Advancing in Ukraine Anymore, Commander Says

From your link

Russia Can't Even Think of Advancing in Ukraine Anymore, Commander Says

"The enemy is preparing, transferring forces and equipment, and accumulating resources," said Alexander Khodakovsky, of the pro-Russian Vostok Battalion.

www.newsweek.com

In a post on his Telegram channel, Khodakovsky, a commander for the pro-Russian Vostok Battalion, said Ukraine continues transferring its soldiers and equipment in preparation for additional offensives in such a way that prevents Russian President Vladimir Putin's troops from even considering advancing themselves.

 

[Hamish Howl]

I do not think, have to check, that any NATO country uses dumb ammo for its long range guns.
A 155mm, as much as I know, is a smart round, a PGM, anything else would be throwing stones.

Yeah, my son was attached to a 155mm unit in the Marines. They practice with dumb rounds, but when he went to Iraq, they had the good shit.

AFAIK, and I could be wrong, 105s still use dumb rounds.

 

[Hamish Howl]

I have read where the US is now considering sending tanks to Ukraine. A quick check shows we only have one Main Battle Tank (MBT) is service, three versions of the Abrams noted as the M1A1 AIM.V2/SA and M1A2B and M1A2C.
We have 2000 of them in active service and 3000 in storage.

From CNN:

That would be a complete game changer. The Beast is damn near impossible to kill.

In all the wars we've been in since the Abrams came into use, we have had zero total losses from enemy action.

We've lost 81 of them, but that was mostly from falling through bridges.

 

[JANFU]

 

[Chomsky]

No, UKR East of Karkiv.

Why go slugging it out in a city when you can just starve them out?

You realize Bakhmut is in the East, right? N of Donetsk, E of Luhansk Oblast?

Maybe were not on the same page here; check out 0:17ff on todays Davydov report:

 

[Minerva]

That would be a complete game changer. The Beast is damn near impossible to kill.

In all the wars we've been in since the Abrams came into use, we have had zero total losses from enemy action.

We've lost 81 of them, but that was mostly from falling through bridges.

You may be mistanken....

Source


In actuality we have lost some to friendly fire.

 

[Hamish Howl]

You realize Bakhmut is in the East, right? N of Donetsk, E of Luhansk Oblast?

Maybe were not on the same page here; check out 0:17ff on todays Davydov report:

Yes. It's just another salient to bite off when they run out of supplies.

 

[Hamish Howl]

You may be mistanken....

Source

Dude, that's the Babylon Bee. It's satire.

EDIT: LOL.

 

[Minerva]

Dude, that's the Babylon Bee. It's satire.

EDIT: LOL.

No kidding? I have a similar post from a better source, "The Onion".....

 

[JANFU]

500 meters in a day? I am unimpressed. It's an attempt to distract from the main theater.

Ukraine shed a lot of Ukrainian blood in the Russian Donbas offensive. 500 mr in some cases was a success for Russia.
Presently, they are getting closer to Russia at a much faster clip than we thought possibe

 

[ChickenTendies]

That would be a complete game changer. The Beast is damn near impossible to kill.

In all the wars we've been in since the Abrams came into use, we have had zero total losses from enemy action.

Iraq's M1A1s suffered serious losses against ISIS. And consider who we've been fighting...

We've lost 81 of them, but that was mostly from falling through bridges.

 

[Minerva]

Iraq's M1A1s suffered serious losses against ISIS. And consider who we've been fighting...

If we can trust the Iraqi Army with M1A1s, what's the hold up with getting them to Ukraine, I wonder?
If they have been upgraded to the point we are cautious about Russia getting their hands on one, are any of the 3000 in storage of an earlier model that doesn't have this concern?
Or maybe allied nations have a few older ones we could work out a deal on.

 

[JANFU]

You may be mistanken....

Source


In actuality we have lost some to friendly fire.

Ukraine can train & maintain these tanks, takes some time. But would be another game changer for Ukraine.
They will need tanks, why store them?
Ukraine did prove that while tanks can be killed easily when in range of soldiers, they also demonstrated that tanks are needed for rapid break through of lines.

 

[JANFU]

Iraq's M1A1s suffered serious losses against ISIS. And consider who we've been fighting...

These are Ukrainian soldiers, not Iraqi

 

[JANFU]

For those with better eyes than I

 

[EnigmaO01]

How dare those darn Krauts, to deliver lethal weapons to the Ukraine, only God bless America and God save the King are supposed to do that. Not those Krauts, how can we bash them now, they need bashing, aint doing crap for the Ukraine.
Next thing those NATO freeloaders will do, send Leopard 2 to Ukraine. If they do that the US should recall its ambassador, stealing the Himars show, those bastards.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Naturally, the Russians order their Turkic and Mongolian minority units to commit the atrocities.

It's easier to treat people like animals if they aren't of your ethnic group or race.

 

[JANFU]

Found there reporting on Ukraine to be a good read.

Ukraine troops focus on Donbas ‘de-occupation’ from Russia

Ukraine troops advance along the key Oskil River threatening Russian forces in the Donbas – Moscow’s prized territory.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Schrott]

Poor grammar on my part
Same reload type as the US version. 2 minutes for reload??? I would suspect a little longer, but a nasty piece of kit. Ukraine will put them to good use
Hard for me keeping track of the differences, I now recall you stating 12 missile capacity.
US version, 1 ATCAMS, This version, 2 at a time??? is my guess?

Now I wonder about how long the US/others can provide ammo?
No idea on US stocks, nor how long the manufacture to ready to use is?

This should make others take note of how fast usage is.

It is just not realistic that 22 HIMARS can do such damage over a 2000 km front, 6 rockets at a time. There are close to 20 MARS systems in the Ukraine.
I give the UK and German MARS more credit, because of their firepower. You empty your pod, you get out of there. Do 20kmh matter not really, do 10 minutes reload time matter not really.
Its firepower that matters. 20 minutes are not important, because you shoot and scoot.

I stated 4 weeks or so ago, that this will be a war of inventory, because neither NATO or Russia has a war time industry.
Russia is losing that part of the war, too.
If you have to buy ammo from NK, or drones from Iran, you declared bankruptcy, or use T62.

 

[Felis Leo]

That advanced? That is going to take a decade for the Russians to build and launch. At least.

 

[EnigmaO01]

That would be a complete game changer. The Beast is damn near impossible to kill.

In all the wars we've been in since the Abrams came into use, we have had zero total losses from enemy action.

We've lost 81 of them, but that was mostly from falling through bridges.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Abrams out of range of the Iraqi tank fire in Desert Storm, but the Abrams could easily hit the Iraqi tanks? And I assume the Iraqi tanks were Russian models?

 

[Felis Leo]

I do not endorse or reject anything Zeihan is saying here, I just think his analysis is interesting and helpful:

I must admit Peter Zeihan is the man who got me to stop worrying about Russia and China in the long run due to their demographic die off, and feel a little rosier about America's long-term prospects. I tend to take what the man says seriously...plus he has a great sense of humor and a great speaking voice.

 

[EnigmaO01]

If we can trust the Iraqi Army with M1A1s, what's the hold up with getting them to Ukraine, I wonder?
If they have been upgraded to the point we are cautious about Russia getting their hands on one, are any of the 3000 in storage of an earlier model that doesn't have this concern?
Or maybe allied nations have a few older ones we could work out a deal on.

Training and maintenance crews needed. That takes time.