[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread (3 Viewers)

[Hamish Howl]

This is what Russia DOES. No need for any reason other than barbarism.

 

[JANFU]

This is what Russia DOES. No need for any reason other than barbarism.

From what I have read, densely populated with apartments, 250-400 K in that area

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[Mr Person]

We should just all band together and not announce what we gave them, perhaps.

JFC, JFK . . .

 

[Yakshi]

From what I have read, densely populated with apartments, 250-400 K in that area

You're right. If I'm not mistaken--there could be more than one Epicenter--that's the northwest edge of the city proper. It is, as you say, densely populated residential area, filled with row after row of nine-story apartment buildings lining both sides of the main street, but just a bit to the southeast, along Victory Avenue, Aksarova Street, and Klochkivska. While the center of town is where you can find the university, the parks, the opera house, and the biggest malls, and the eastern part of town is the center of its industry, russia instead appears to be striking one of the heaviest civilian areas.

 

[Hamish Howl]

****ing nutcase.

 

[ASHES]

****ing nutcase.

One of the first. Mr. Brainworms.

 

[NWRatCon]

We should just all band together and not announce what we gave them, perhaps.





JFC, JFK . . .

Or JFKFC.

 

[JANFU]

Worm must have died of starvation when eating his brain

 

[NWRatCon]

Worm must have died of starvation when eating his brain

So it's been said.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Ukraine says own "careless" troops may be behind Russian gains

An inquiry will examine actions by Ukrainian units ahead of Russia's offensive this month in Kharkiv.

www.newsweek.com

>The court document said that a preliminary investigation had found that the 125th Brigade, 415th Separate Rifle Battalion, the 23rd Mechanized Brigade, the 172nd Separate Rifle, and other units "did not properly organize the defense of positions on the border of Kharkiv Oblast" due to a "careless attitude to military service." The document said, according to a translation, that the Russian offensive "led to the loss of positions, military equipment, and personnel of the units," and that Ukrainian troops had "abandoned" other positions. It said that 28 people were involved in the criminal offense, including the brigade commander, his deputies, and officials but did not specify what the punishment would be if found guilty. Ukrainian military commander Denys Yaroslavskyi said earlier this month that the Russian breakthrough in Kharkiv was caused by Ukrainian forces' lack of preparedness. "There was no first line of defense," Yaroslavskyi told the BBC,"the Russians just walked in....without any mined fields." "Either it was an act of negligence or corruption. It wasn't a failure. It was a betrayal," he said. Ukrainian lawmakers told Politico that the U.S. ban on using Western weapons at targets in Russia helped Moscow's troops make progress in the offensive.<

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US Stryker armored fighting vehicles help Ukraine recapture lost territory in Kharkiv region, report says

The Ukrainian fightback around Vovchansk is being led by the elite 82nd Air Assault Brigade, sources told the Kyiv Post.

www.businessinsider.com

>US Stryker armored fighting vehicles are helping Ukraine battle Russia's push into the embattled northeastern region of Kharkiv, the Kyiv Post reported. Ukrainian forces recently recaptured territory near the city of Vovchansk in the region, according to the Institute for the Study of War (ISW) think tank. It cited geolocated footage published on May 22. Sources told the Kyiv Post that the Ukrainian fightback in the area was being led by the elite 82nd Air Assault Brigade, with support from special forces — and the US-supplied Strykers. Leaked military documents from last year showed that the powerhouse 82nd unit is one of Ukraine's best equipped, with around 150 armored infantry carriers, including 90 Strykers and 14 British Challenger tanks. The eight-wheeled infantry transporter proved highly effective in urban warfare and quickly earned praise for its operational mobility and command-and-control network.<

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Putin suffering "enormous difficulties" selling Russia's gas: Analysis

Gazprom is struggling to find new markets for its product following a severing of ties with Europe, an Atlantic Council report has found.

www.newsweek.com

>Gazprom cannot find new profitable markets for its natural gas, cutting a valuable revenue generator for Vladimir Putin's war machine and impacting his ability to use energy as a weapon against the West, according to a new analysis from the Atlantic Council think tank. Gazprom's revenue fell by 41 percent year-over-year in the first half of 2023, while sales profits dropped 71 percent and gas production by 25 percent. Gazprom Group, which also includes oil and power businesses, announced a net loss of 629 billion rubles [$6.9 billion] for last year, prompting the Russian government to order that it does not pay out dividends for 2023. Berlin-based energy analyst Thomas O'Donnell told Newsweek that Gazprom's woes have shown Putin's tactic to use Russian gas as a lever against Europe had backfired. "It was intended to shock Europe and force them into submission with an energy war to prevent their acting in solidarity with Ukraine to his surprise, this did not happen," he said, "Putin has a lot of gas and he can't sell it." The Atlantic Council report said the Russian oil industry had weathered sanctions better than Gazprom, mostly because it does not require the same infrastructure. The commodity can be shipped via seaports although a $60 price cap imposed by the G7 countries has seen Russia use shadow fleets to hide links to Moscow. Milov concluded that while Russian oil and gas industries and Russia's public finances are too resilient to collapse, "they are suffering enormous difficulties due to sanctions and decoupling from the Western energy markets."<

Russia's "enormous difficulties" and "enormous losses" make me smile

 

[RetiredUSN]

The Russian people need long range missiles lobbed in on them. A lot of them!

They need to experience same pain and carnage that the citizens of Ukraine have been living through.................... right now!

Moscow targeted with 300-400 missiles should do nicely.

 

[Yakshi]

The Russian people need long range missiles lobbed in on them. A lot of them!

They need to experience same pain and carnage that the citizens of Ukraine have been living through.................... right now!

Moscow targeted with 300-400 missiles should do nicely.

I agree with you. America's strategy has long given too much credence to russia's weekly nuclear bluffs.

putin has made many red lines upon which he strongly intimated at a nuclear response. Never happened.

So, yes, it's time to hit non-civilian, military targets deep within russia, at the very minimum on a one-to-one basis for each russian strike on Ukraine.

russia only understands force. putin repeatedly says that the west does not have the stomach for war.

It has long been time to give russia what it is giving Ukraine, in the sort of public way that even russian propaganda can't sweep under the rug.

Some russians seem unaware that the west is far, far, far stronger than russia militarily. The west correcting that misconception with daily strikes would reveal the lie to decades of russian propaganda.

russia needs to get absolutely ****ed up in a highly visual way.

Then Biden needs to make a speech about how russia does not have the stomach for war.

This method would directly demonstrate that many of the russia's years- or decades-old propaganda themes are pure nonsense.

Even better? Call in a strike on Red Square in advance, Larry Bird style. Date, time, hour. Say that Red Square will soon be gone, that there is nothing russia can do to stop it, and that any russian choosing the occupy that area at that time can expect to become bacon. Then blow the holy **** out of it.

russian leaders are cowards.

 

[Yakshi]

It is my deep belief that, for many reasons, russia needs to have some location of deep historical and cultural importance destroyed.

Lenin's Tomb--Lenin being the source of so much putin garbage and war justification.

Announce that it's gone two hours in advance. Then vaporize it.

Then a one sentence speech: "putin, a spy, never a soldier, doesn't understand real war."

 

[NWRatCon]

It is my deep belief that, for many reasons, russia needs to have some location of deep historical and cultural importance destroyed.

Lenin's Tomb--Lenin being the source of so much putin garbage and war justification.

Announce that it's gone two hours in advance. Then vaporize it.

Then a one sentence speech: "putin, a spy, never a soldier, doesn't understand real war."

No. No civilian targets. But eliminating his dachas, yachts, and palaces in a systematic fashion would do the trick. They're military targets because he could be there, and by eliminating them they can pin him down (and by targeting them, redirect defense assets away from other legitimate targets). He needs to feel the pain and fear personally, because he doesn't give a shit about his people. Systematically destroying the energy resources is being quite effective.

 

[Yakshi]

No. No civilian targets. But eliminating his dachas, yachts, and palaces in a systematic fashion would do the trick. They're military targets because he could be there, and by eliminating them they can pin him down (and by targeting them, redirect defense assets away from other legitimate targets). He needs to feel the pain and fear personally, because he doesn't give a shit about his people. Systematically destroying the energy resources is being quite effective.

Always happy to disagree. A warning followed by a strike on that location would do wonders for the world.

 

[Yakshi]

russians need to see their bubble broken. It can only happen in a way, in a place, that they crucially value culturally.

The west needs to turn that place into dust.

something russian-propaganda-proof.

Because if Ukraine utterly eviscerated some random russian city in the far east, russia could make documentaries explaining how that place had never existed, arrest the complainers, and silence dissent.

russia needs a demonstration of utter western dominance in a way that erases all hope of deniability.

The U.S. needs a stronger leader, and it ain't Biden, and it sure as hell ain't Trump.

 

[Yakshi]

No. No civilian targets. But eliminating his dachas, yachts, and palaces in a systematic fashion would do the trick. They're military targets because he could be there, and by eliminating them they can pin him down (and by targeting them, redirect defense assets away from other legitimate targets). He needs to feel the pain and fear personally, because he doesn't give a shit about his people. Systematically destroying the energy resources is being quite effective.

Meanwhile, Mariupol, destroyed, Kherson, destroyed, Kharkiv, in the process of being destroyed. America is perpetually too late, too weak, and too afraid. All of these characteristics, in my opinion, egg on more russian aggression and play into the russian propaganda narrative that the west has no stomach for "real war." At each step, we reinforce that propaganda.

Despite the reality that the west simply overpowers russia. Why do we lower ourselves beneath such weak competition?

 

[coyote505]

The Russian people need long range missiles lobbed in on them. A lot of them!

They need to experience same pain and carnage that the citizens of Ukraine have been living through.................... right now!

Moscow targeted with 300-400 missiles should do nicely.

Not sure that would have a great effect, unless it was actually enough to trigger a new Russian Revolution, which I doubt. Putin doesn't give a rat's ass about the suffering of his own people, any more than Ukrainians. The only thing that will restrain him is depriving Russia of financing and an industrial base. Concentrate on refinery cat crackers, and all Russian ports, to prevent export of crude, and import of Anything. Allow Ukraine to hit Russian troops, equipment and manufacturing with US and Euro weapons, wherever they may be. Confiscate all Russian sovereign assets overseas.

 

[Yakshi]

I'm am so ****ing tired of the west pulling its punches.

 

[Yakshi]

Not sure that would have a great effect, unless it was actually enough to trigger a new Russian Revolution, which I doubt. Putin doesn't give a rat's ass about the suffering of his own people, any more than Ukrainians. The only thing that will restrain him is depriving Russia of financing and an industrial base. Concentrate on refinery cat crackers, and all Russian ports, to prevent export of crude, and import of Anything. Allow Ukraine to hit Russian troops, equipment and manufacturing with US and Euro weapons, wherever they may be. Confiscate all Russian sovereign assets overseas.

Hit putin where he lives. Again and again and again. So that he understands what the daily sirens mean, a sound all too familiar to every Ukrainian.

 

[NWRatCon]

Meanwhile, Mariupol, destroyed, Kherson, destroyed, Kharkiv, in the process of being destroyed. America is perpetually too late, too weak, and too afraid. All of these characteristics, in my opinion, egg on more russian aggression and play into the russian propaganda narrative that the west has no stomach for "real war." At each step, we reinforce that propaganda.

Despite the reality that the west simply overpowers russia. Why do we lower ourselves beneath such weak competition?

International humanitarian law. Do we want to engage in moral equivalence with a scum bucket?

 

[Schrott]

International humanitarian law. Do we want to engage in moral equivalence with a scum bucket?

Correct.

It would be extremely stupid to do anything like this, there would be instant retaliation and then this war would get out of control.

Yes it is our war, too, but then not really, we are not a war party in the West/NATO.
The Ukraine has to fight this war, our war and we have to supply what ever it needs. The Ukraine has to get its shit together, corruption, mobilization etc.
In the West/NATO 18 is the age when you get drafted or volunteer, conscription, not 24 or 25 as in Ukraine, even in war for its existence.
I think that is fooking joke and in my opinion not taking the situation REAL serious. 24 I was already a NCO, a specialist, top of my skills and ran a team of 10, averaging 23, with top notch skills. In the Ukraine they learn at 24 or 25 how to tie a military boot properly.
That is a fooking joke.

 

[JANFU]

 

[Rogue Valley]

How will reducing the conscription age from 27 to 25 increase conscription? The new conscription law also ends mandatory demobilization after 36 active months. (that could be huge dissuader for many)

Ukraine also needs to balance military manpower needs with manufacturing manpower needs. Those drones don't make themselves.