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[W: 20] If you do this your religion is useless...

Elora

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An excellent video that surely gave me food for thought when I watched it...

The Bible says if you do this your religion is useless. These people also like to think they are the innocent victim who was “only speaking the truth” and they feel justified when others get upset at them about it. They claim they are being persecuted for speaking the truth. Those people might have some knowledge, but they show themselves to be a fool because of the way they wield that knowledge to injure other people and start arguments.


 

tosca1

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Must be James 1. here, in a nutshell!


James 1

26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless.

27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.





When interpreting any verse in the Bible, including James 1:27, we should always look at its context to get an idea of what the verse means within the surrounding verses. In this case, we can look at what comes immediately before James 1:27 and get some idea of what is going on in this particular passage. Verse 26 says, “Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.”
So, in these final two verses of James 1, we have a contrast between what makes religion “worthless” and what makes religion “acceptable” to God.

Here it would be good to define the word religion. By “religion,” James means the external evidence of inward piety; that is, worship as expressed in ritual acts.

In the “worthless” religion, it doesn’t seem to matter what rituals or pious acts the worshiper engages in—it is all negated by an out-of-control tongue.

A man may go through all the external motions of Christianity, yet if he tells lies or speaks unkindly or gossips or slanders or profanes God’s name, then his religion is empty. Everyone around him will see it, but he himself remains self-deceived. “By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned” (Matthew 12:37).


The implied contrast in the “pure and undefiled” religion that pleases God is that the worshiper keeps his tongue under control. “Whoever of you loves life and desires to see many good days, keep your tongue from evil and your lips from telling lies” (Psalm 34:12–13).


But James goes beyond just tongue control and gives examples of the religious acts God is looking for. One is outward-focused: “Look after orphans and widows in their distress.” The other is inward-focused: “Keep oneself from being polluted by the world” (James 1:27). Holy living, coupled with service to others, is the key. Or, as Jesus said, “Love the Lord your God” and “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:30–31).
https://www.gotquestions.org/pure-and-undefiled-religion.html
 
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tosca1

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

The audio in the video isn't working, so I was unable to watch it. However, I got what he's actually saying through youtube, and from the reponses from viewers.


The Bible says if you do this your religion is useless. These people also like to think they are the innocent victim who was “only speaking the truth” and they feel justified when others get upset at them about it. They claim they are being persecuted for speaking the truth. Those people might have some knowledge, but they show themselves to be a fool because of the way they wield that knowledge to injure other people and start arguments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptx331uLZ7Y


I think the message is not exactly within context of James 1 - as shown above. Anyway, to address his opinion about upsetting others....

here's my opinion:



We can offend people just by telling them they need saving! Should we refrain from telling them about the Saviour?
Because.....that's basically the reason why Christians will be hated by the world: for their message!


Remember the Great Commission?

Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”



You see that red fonted part?
Telling someone he needs saving - and his lifestyle goes against with God - boy, that surely makes some people bristle!

Anyway......all you have to do is go to a forum and post about the need for Christ and salvation, and obedience to God - and you'll surely be vexing others who are hostile to God.
Some may even say you're trolling! :lol:



What are we Christians supposed to do? Clam up? Diliute and change the message - to be politically correct? Don't rock the boat? In other words - we should conform to the world?

Isn't conflict to be expected when you go out preaching? Of course, you're bound to come across someone who'll challenge your belief! Just look at some explosive politically-correct issues that goes against Christianity!


Matthew 10
22 You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.


John 15
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.
 
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OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

An excellent video that surely gave me food for thought when I watched it...






hehe...working on a little image repair, Elvira? :lol:

Couldn't watch the video, but if it's a commitment on your part to stop wielding your knowledge to injure other people and start arguments, I'm 100% behind you. :)
 

PoS

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

It's funny that these trinitarians all of a sudden cant hear the audio or watch the video when it actually works fine. Good points, Elvira, since its clear they feel threatened by your unassailable points. :cool:
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

It's funny that these trinitarians all of a sudden cant hear the audio or watch the video when it actually works fine. Good points, Elvira, since its clear they feel threatened by your unassailable points. :cool:

Nah, it's my work firewall. No YouTube videos work. :shrug:

And I was applauding Elvira. I think it's great that she's not using religion to be all judgey and not start fights. It's a welcome change. :)

Hope this clears things up for you, buddy! You seem confused lately.
 

PoS

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Nah, it's my work firewall. No YouTube videos work. :shrug:

And I was applauding Elvira. I think it's great that she's not using religion to be all judgey and not start fights. It's a welcome change. :)

Hope this clears things up for you, buddy! You seem confused lately.

So you dont even bother to check the OP and instead take a swipe at anybody who disagrees with you? Very typical and exactly what was expected by the contents of the vid. Well done.
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

So you dont even bother to check the OP and instead take a swipe at anybody who disagrees with you? Very typical and exactly what was expected by the contents of the vid. Well done.

You seem to be having problems with English. I was praising Elvira. How do you reach the opposite conclusion? I think it's great that she's advocating for this.

Help me help you, buddy... Is there a better language I can express that in? I have Google Translate on the other tab, just say the word. :)
 

Elora

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

So you dont even bother to check the OP and instead take a swipe at anybody who disagrees with you? Very typical and exactly what was expected by the contents of the vid. Well done.

Too bad he "can't" watch it, huh...:2razz:
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Too bad he "can't" watch it, huh...:2razz:

Do the JW's believe in firewalls? Regardless, I'm saying good job. How is this controversial? :lol:
 

PoS

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Too bad he "can't" watch it, huh...:2razz:

Yup, he loves to sidestep and attack people and not even respond to the issues. Typical, huh? It means he has no rebuttal.
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Yup, he loves to sidestep and attack people and not even respond to the issues. Typical, huh? It means he has no rebuttal.

:lamo

Great job is the new fighting words, huh? Do you even care if you make sense?
 

PoS

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

:lamo

Great job is the new fighting words, huh? Do you even care if you make sense?

I'll let people decide which one of us makes sense. The fact is you didnt watch the OP video so youre doing nothing but pirouetting and just making personal attacks. Well done, pal. You live up to your rep.
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

I'll let people decide which one of us makes sense. The fact is you didnt watch the OP video so youre doing nothing but pirouetting and just making personal attacks. Well done, pal.

Clearly the frustration is getting to you. Let me talk really really slowly, and maybe you'll understand it.

She posted a video which I could not watch from behind the firewall I'm at.

However, she also posted a description, which I read, quoted, and agreed with.

Now, please, for this imaginary crowd of people you think is going to make this decision for us, explain how any of that is an attack. Go on, you're a super smart atheist, I'm sure you can do it. :)
 

PoS

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

She posted a video which I could not watch from behind the firewall I'm at.
Then why are you in this thread? It's about the video and youre not even debating that. Common sense will tell anyone that if one wants to debate the thread then they have to either watch the video. It's clear what youre in here for, and its not to debate the issue. Youre here to provoke and insult, which is typical of your kind.
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Then why are you in this thread? It's about the video and youre not even debating that. Common sense will tell anyone that if one wants to debate the thread then they have to either watch the video. It's clear what youre in here for, and its not to debate the issue. Youre here to provoke and insult, which is typical of your kind.

Why am I in this thread?

1) Cuz I want to, and that's enough of a reason, and more than I'm obliged to share with you. Unless, of course, you've been made a mod while we've been talking...hehe...

2) To give credit where credit is due. The quote was:

Those people might have some knowledge, but they show themselves to be a fool because of the way they wield that knowledge to injure other people and start arguments.

I agree with her statement completely. Which is why I said so. Some of us aren't defined by our grudges. lolz

Sorry, PoS, I know you really really REALLY want to demonize me, it's adorable and all, but unfortunately for you it's all horse****, and you can't prove a single thing you are saying about me here, no matter how big a meanie you are trying to be. :lol: You were saying something about typical?

Don't worry, I don't hold it against you, I know you're more of a fiction guy anyway. :)
 

PoS

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Why am I in this thread?

1) Cuz I want to, and that's enough of a reason, and more than I'm obliged to share with you.
As expected. Thanks for proving my point.
 

OlNate

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

As expected. Thanks for proving my point.

And by quoting only that and snipping the rest, you just proved mine. Ya beat yourself homie. :lamo

Great chat.
 

nota bene

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

Moderator's Warning:
None of you is the topic of this thread. Talk about the topic rather than each other or plan to leave the thread.
 

ashurbanipal

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

An excellent video that surely gave me food for thought when I watched it...





I generally agree with the thrust of this video, and I suspect this is at least one of the paths to learning genuine humility--for the simple reason that governing your speech teaches you also to listen to the other person and hear what they are saying, even if they are saying it in a way you don't like. In my experience, that makes quite a difference.

There is a fine line between arguing a case in the philosophical sense (that is, presenting reasons for why a person ought to believe whatever conclusions you're arguing), and arguing in the political sense of having a row. There are occasions when fighting becomes genuinely necessary--but those are very rare and difficult to judge even for the wise. Usually, there's no problem in arguing in the philosophical sense, because, if all parties can keep ego and emotion out of it, everyone can learn something that is truly beneficial.

This bit gets to part of what I see wrong with our country today, and something that I've said a few times--the various sides just don't listen to each other. I hope that, appearance to the contrary, this will be a passing phase--something that comes and goes as the years pass. I guess we shall see.
 

Elora

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

I generally agree with the thrust of this video, and I suspect this is at least one of the paths to learning genuine humility--for the simple reason that governing your speech teaches you also to listen to the other person and hear what they are saying, even if they are saying it in a way you don't like. In my experience, that makes quite a difference.

There is a fine line between arguing a case in the philosophical sense (that is, presenting reasons for why a person ought to believe whatever conclusions you're arguing), and arguing in the political sense of having a row. There are occasions when fighting becomes genuinely necessary--but those are very rare and difficult to judge even for the wise. Usually, there's no problem in arguing in the philosophical sense, because, if all parties can keep ego and emotion out of it, everyone can learn something that is truly beneficial.

This bit gets to part of what I see wrong with our country today, and something that I've said a few times--the various sides just don't listen to each other. I hope that, appearance to the contrary, this will be a passing phase--something that comes and goes as the years pass. I guess we shall see.

Good post all around...I appreciate your input...failing to listen is indeed a serious problem in this country and there's only so much a person can do when the convo is one-sided...sometimes, it's best to walk away and let the other person have the last word when you see it going nowhere fast...
 
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tosca1

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

When it comes to Christian belief - you cannot compromise it. We're not allowed to.

Therefore, to say that we should listen to each other (varying religious belief, or even non-religious) -
that's not Christian teaching.

What some people here are actually saying is that you should find a comfort zone for everyone, so everyone will agree.

Since when did Jesus say, or where is it written, that we should try to agree with others who don't share our Christian belief? Aren't we in fact instructed to call out and rebuke erring or straying brothers?
Does that sound anywhere like you should clam up.....just so to avoid any conflict?


Listening is one thing. But to apply what was listened to, even if it sounds so practical?
Nope - that's not what Christians are supposed to do. Sorry to bust some bubbles.

The video's message has taken James 1 out of context, by the looks of it.
 
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tosca1

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

An excellent video that surely gave me food for thought when I watched it...


Proverbs 27

5
Better is open rebuke
than hidden love.





James 1 isn't exactly within its context in that video.


In the “worthless” religion, it doesn’t seem to matter what rituals or pious acts the worshiper engages in—it is all negated by an out-of-control tongue.

A man may go through all the external motions of Christianity, yet if he tells lies or speaks unkindly or gossips or slanders or profanes God’s name, then his religion is empty. Everyone around him will see it, but he himself remains self-deceived. “By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned” (Matthew 12:37).


The implied contrast in the “pure and undefiled” religion that pleases God is that the worshiper keeps his tongue under control. “Whoever of you loves life and desires to see many good days, keep your tongue from evil and your lips from telling lies” (Psalm 34:12–13).


But James goes beyond just tongue control and gives examples of the religious acts God is looking for. One is outward-focused: “Look after orphans and widows in their distress.” The other is inward-focused: “Keep oneself from being polluted by the world” (James 1:27). Holy living, coupled with service to others, is the key. Or, as Jesus said, “Love the Lord your God” and “Love your neighbor as yourself” (Mark 12:30–31).
https://www.gotquestions.org/pure-and-undefiled-religion.html



We shouldn't be telling fibs........

......... or twisting the Scriptures just to suit our narratives.


See when we take the Scriptures out of context (like the way it was taken in that video - unwittingly, I hope) - it usually ends up contradicting, or being in conflict with some part of the Scriptures (as shown by other verses and Jesus' instructions).

The Scriptures is meant to be fluidly consistent, from beginning to end.
 
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gfm7175

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Re: If you do this your religion is useless...

...mod warning...

I was going to continue an earlier discussion, and would have probably been reprimanded for violating the mod warning if I wouldn't have scrolled up and read prior posts. Seems like you forgot to place the "W:20" in the thread title, Nota?

Just a heads up for anyone who may accidentally continue that line of conversation without catching the mod warning about it...
 
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