[W: #18] Jesus is GOD

[redbeer]

In such cases the death is a spiritual one ---- separation from GOD. Some don't understand this because they refute any belief in an eternal spirit. The SPIRIT is what concerns GOD and not the body.

We are not immortal beings, but living breathing creatures as God made us. Eternal life is His gift to us. Last I looked "death" does not mean 'separation', less we want to change meanings of words to suit false doctrine.

As TRIUNE one is free to worship CHRIST, but anything other would be regarded as sinful. Only one GOD are we supposed to worship. Since the FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT are ONE GOD ---- there is no issue...

Three persons do not equate to One God.....sorry.

The above is list entirely false. They all believed in a multitude of individual gods and goddesses (often city/state god's). They were petty, fighting among themselves, having very human characteristic with immortality and the ability to do things. These are in no way compatible with Orthodox Christianity which believes in ONE GOD ESSENCE who has revealed HIMSELF to be THREE persons of equal eternal vitality and not

Four centuries after Christ and you found the truth, as Jesus and the apostles didn't have it right........no, you have it backwards......Original Christianity had it right, namely that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. There really is only One true God, and Jesus says it's His Father, but 400 years later churchianity finally got it right......NO.

I feel that you will find that most "modern Christian" sects don't even follow CHRIST and HIS teachings, let alone understand the Trinity or even care. Women pastors, disregarding the virgin birth as important, the deity of CHRIST, gay marriage, gay clergy, all beliefs are okay...

Bible Believing Trinitarian CHRISTIANS are in fact very small a percentage in comparison to all the other worldly religions.

In the vast majority of Catholics and Protestants the main central doctrine is the trinity.....it is not in the minority but the majority of Christians living today.

 

[redbeer]

I'm not reading it into your words.

That's what you wrote!

But - if you say you mean it a different way - well, okay.



I'm just saying............how ironic that the way you worded it, is also saying what I've been saying. GOD is Jesus in human form.

Huh?......where the heck did I say, "God is Jesus in human form"?

Is this purposeful misrepresentation, wittle games, or what?

 

[Daisy]

The Holy Scripture even in the NWT says only serve ONE GOD “It is written, “'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.'” Matthew 4:10 and Luke 4:8
Daniel 7:13-14 NWT
13  “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man+ was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days,+ and they brought him up close before that One. 14  And to him there were given rulership,+ honor,+ and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him.+ His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.+

Obeisance ---- showing deference or respect towards someone in a position of power or authority doesn't apply here, because the word is "SERVICE" and not "Obeisance". The Witnesses have a real problem and love to make excuses applying semantics. I know that you cannot talk to your Witness leaders because they would likely ask you why you're visiting secular religious websites. I know how it works. You need to stop thinking that the Witnesses know what they are talking about. They are a religion of excuses and putting down Christians who do not show obeisance to their leadership.

I do serve God...His name is Jehovah...

 

[Daisy]

n the vast majority of Catholics and Protestants the main central doctrine is the trinity.....it is not in the minority but the majority of Christians living today.

Your words made me think of a quote...

 

[LittleNipper]

We are not immortal beings, but living breathing creatures as God made us. Eternal life is His gift to us. Last I looked "death" does not mean 'separation', less we want to change meanings of words to suit false doctrine.



Three persons do not equate to One God.....sorry.

Have you ever met GOD? Only GOD can create from nothing as did the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Only CHRIST could bring back a dead man after 4 days in the grave.

Four centuries after Christ and you found the truth, as Jesus and the apostles didn't have it right........no, you have it backwards......Original Christianity had it right, namely that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. There really is only One true God, and Jesus says it's His Father, but 400 years later churchianity finally got it right......NO.

Provide the verse where CHRIST says, "Do not worship me ---- I'm not GOD."

In the vast majority of Catholics and Protestants the main central doctrine is the trinity.....it is not in the minority but the majority of Christians living today.

Matthew 19:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

This verse indicates that humans are more than just a body made of dust...

 

[LittleNipper]

I do serve God...His name is Jehovah...

But you do not serve the SON of MAN.

 

[LittleNipper]

Your words made me think of a quote...

The one on GOD's side is always a majority. II Kings 6:16,17 But he said: “Do not be afraid! For there are more who are with us than those who are with them.

 

[Daisy]

The one on GOD's side is always a majority. II Kings 6:16,17 But he said: “Do not be afraid! For there are more who are with us than those who are with them.

But Jesus said...

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it." Matthew 7:13,14

“Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few." Matthew 9:37

 

[Daisy]

But you do not serve the SON of MAN.

“God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son," Romans 1:9

 

[redbeer]

Have you ever met GOD? Only GOD can create from nothing as did the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Only CHRIST could bring back a dead man after 4 days in the grave.

Provide the verse where CHRIST says, "Do not worship me ---- I'm not GOD."

Matthew 19:28

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

This verse indicates that humans are more than just a body made of dust...

The word "soul" used in this verse:


G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Total KJV occurrences: 104


Humans are body and spirit, which is called a soul, not that we inherently are immortals. Plato's doctrine of the immortal soul, which he got from Egyptian and Babylonian thought, seeped its way into Christianity.

Jesus did many great miracles for the Father was 'in' Christ working mighty works and wonders through him, even commanding Jesus the words to speak and Jesus was obedient to His God and Father.

I don't have a hangup with the worshipping of Jesus, as long to worship the Father as your only God with Jesus being the Christ, our Lord......all is cool.

 

[LittleNipper]

“God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son," Romans 1:9

But you believe that you are only flesh and have no spirit according to the Witness teachings.

But Jesus said...

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it." Matthew 7:13,14

“Yes, the harvest is great, but the workers are few." Matthew 9:37

But you don't preach the GOSPEL. You go door to door promoting "kingdom government".

 

[LittleNipper]

The word "soul" used in this verse:


G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Total KJV occurrences: 104


Humans are body and spirit, which is called a soul, not that we inherently are immortals. Plato's doctrine of the immortal soul, which he got from Egyptian and Babylonian thought, seeped its way into Christianity.

Jesus did many great miracles for the Father was 'in' Christ working mighty works and wonders through him, even commanding Jesus the words to speak and Jesus was obedient to His God and Father.

I don't have a hangup with the worshipping of Jesus, as long to worship the Father as your only God with Jesus being the Christ, our Lord......all is cool.

The Witnesses will not worship anyone but Jehovah. They will not worship CHRIST. In this the HOLY SPIRIT condemns them and they are not saved.

 

[LittleNipper]

JESUS clearly claimed to be GOD.

Compare the following passages: Mark 14:60-64
60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?

64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Daniel 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


EVERLASTING in the Biblical sense means the following: "Everlasting," , is that which endures forever; having no beginning and will have no end . JESUS is admitting HIS ETERNAL DOMINION ------ ONLY GOD is FOREVER and CHRIST comes right out and says that HE is the SON of MAN (meaning HE IS GOD) And that HIS DOMINION is ETERNAL! And serve HIM mean to WORSHIP HIM without a doubt! PLUS the the high priest knows exactly what JESUS is admitting to and has a real fit!

 

[tosca1]

And again...

You do know obeisance also means................. OBEDIENCE?

......................SURRENDER?


.................SUBMISSION?



Why we do obeisance to Christ, is the same as worship!




CHRISTIANS OBEY Him.

CHRISTIANS SURRENDER to Him.

CHRISTIANS SUBMIT to Him!

 

[tosca1]

And again...

What does it mean to surrender to God?​

This world is a battleground. Since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:17-19), the world God created has been in conflict with Him (Romans 8:20-22).

There are different levels of surrender, all of which affect our relationship with God. Initial surrender to the drawing of the Holy Spirit leads to salvation (John 6:44; Acts 2:21).
When we let go of our own attempts to earn God’s favor and rely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf, we become a child of God (John 1:12; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
But there are times of greater surrender during a Christian’s life that bring deeper intimacy with God and greater power in service.
The more areas of our lives we surrender to Him, the more room there is for the filling of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).
When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we exhibit traits of His character (Galatians 5:22).
The more we surrender to God, the more our old self-worshiping nature is replaced with one that resembles Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Romans 6:13 says that God demands that we surrender the totality of our selves; He wants the whole, not a part:
“Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.” Jesus said that His followers must deny themselves (Mark 8:34)—another call to surrender.

The goal of the Christian life can be summed up by Galatians 2:20:
"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."
Such a life of surrender is pleasing to God, results in the greatest human fulfillment, and will reap ultimate rewards in heaven (Luke 6:22-23).

What does it mean to surrender to God? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to surrender to God? How can I surrender control of my life to God?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[tosca1]

Obeisance is not the same as worshship...one can show obeisance to someone out of respect, worship results from love...

Obeisance:

Definition: The act of complying with a command or request.

Motivation: Can be based on duty, fear of consequence, or a desire to please the authority figure.

Focus: Primarily on carrying out the specific action or directive.

Worship:
Definition: The act of showing reverence or adoration, often towards a deity.

Motivation: Often stems from love, respect, and a sense of awe towards the deity.

Focus: On the relationship with the deity and expressing reverence for their divine nature.
Google

Unless, you treat Jesus as just another ordinary man.


BUT..............JESUS is not just another ordinary man. RIGHT?
He's not even like your ordinary king.



BOTTOM LINE:

HE IS THE.............KING OF KINGS.
HE IS.....................THE ONLY WAY TO SALVATION.
HE IS.....................THE LIFE.


Our obeisance to Him isn't comparable to the respect you show your President, or your employer, or monarchy.

 

[tosca1]

Obeisance is not the same as worshship...one can show obeisance to someone out of respect, worship results from love...

DO YOU LOVE JESUS?

Obeisance:

Definition: The act of complying with a command or request.

Motivation: Can be based on duty, fear of consequence, or a desire to please the authority figure.

Focus: Primarily on carrying out the specific action or directive.

Worship:
Definition: The act of showing reverence or adoration, often towards a deity.

Motivation: Often stems from love, respect, and a sense of awe towards the deity.

Focus: On the relationship with the deity and expressing reverence for their divine nature.
Google

Read your own source again.



WORSHIP (Merriam/Webster)


to honor or show reverence for as a divine being or supernatural power
to regard with great or extravagant respect, honor, or devotion

 

[redbeer]

The Witnesses will not worship anyone but Jehovah. They will not worship CHRIST. In this the HOLY SPIRIT condemns them and they are not saved.

They see Jesus as the Christ and the Father as God, which is correct and biblical. We are commanded to have only One God, not a group of three persons and then pretend they are one being.

 

[redbeer]

JESUS clearly claimed to be GOD.

Compare the following passages: Mark 14:60-64
60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?

64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

The high priest was as the other religious leaders of Jesus' time......they did not believe Jesus was the Christ and because of their unbelief it was blasphemy for him to claim he was the Christ. Above Jesus was not asked if you are God and he never claimed to be God......you are making false assumptions.

Daniel 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

You have conveniently passed over the word "given" to him, signifying a beginning point in time and not something he inherently had forever.

EVERLASTING in the Biblical sense means the following: "Everlasting," , is that which endures forever; having no beginning and will have no end . JESUS is admitting HIS ETERNAL DOMINION ------ ONLY GOD is FOREVER and CHRIST comes right out and says that HE is the SON of MAN (meaning HE IS GOD) And that HIS DOMINION is ETERNAL! And serve HIM mean to WORSHIP HIM without a doubt! PLUS the the high priest knows exactly what JESUS is admitting to and has a real fit!

Hard to grasp why it is trinitarians join forces with those who had Jesus killed.....the high priest and religious leaders were all envious, liars, false accusers, didn't understand the words of Jesus, and hated him. Yet, trinitarians side with them each and every time, weird. Jesus was asked if he was the Christ, he said "yes, I am".......but you and the liars say he is claiming to be God, why twist his words?

 

[redbeer]

You do know obeisance also means................. OBEDIENCE?

......................SURRENDER?


.................SUBMISSION?



Why we do obeisance to Christ, is the same as worship!




CHRISTIANS OBEY Him.

CHRISTIANS SURRENDER to Him.

CHRISTIANS SUBMIT to Him!

And so do JW's, but their worship to God only goes to One, the Father.

 

[redbeer]

What does it mean to surrender to God?​

This world is a battleground. Since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:17-19), the world God created has been in conflict with Him (Romans 8:20-22).

There are different levels of surrender, all of which affect our relationship with God. Initial surrender to the drawing of the Holy Spirit leads to salvation (John 6:44; Acts 2:21).
When we let go of our own attempts to earn God’s favor and rely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ on our behalf, we become a child of God (John 1:12; 2 Corinthians 5:21).
But there are times of greater surrender during a Christian’s life that bring deeper intimacy with God and greater power in service.
The more areas of our lives we surrender to Him, the more room there is for the filling of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).
When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we exhibit traits of His character (Galatians 5:22).
The more we surrender to God, the more our old self-worshiping nature is replaced with one that resembles Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17).

Romans 6:13 says that God demands that we surrender the totality of our selves; He wants the whole, not a part:
“Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.” Jesus said that His followers must deny themselves (Mark 8:34)—another call to surrender.

The goal of the Christian life can be summed up by Galatians 2:20:
"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."
Such a life of surrender is pleasing to God, results in the greatest human fulfillment, and will reap ultimate rewards in heaven (Luke 6:22-23).

What does it mean to surrender to God? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean to surrender to God? How can I surrender control of my life to God?

www.gotquestions.org

Galatians 2: 20 is the foundation, deep footer, the very base, the ultimate goal of Christianity...."it's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me"......"Christ in you, the hope of glory"...


(Col 1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
(Col 1:26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

 

[LittleNipper]

You do know obeisance also means................. OBEDIENCE?

......................SURRENDER?


.................SUBMISSION?



Why we do obeisance to Christ, is the same as worship!




CHRISTIANS OBEY Him.

CHRISTIANS SURRENDER to Him.

CHRISTIANS SUBMIT to Him!

Absolutely! And the only reason why we can Worship CHRIST is entirely dependent on the FACT that there is but ONE GOD that is manifested in THREE beings who are apologetically ONE.
And that is why we can sing without any reservation HOLY, HOLY, HOLY. The hymn is based on Revelation 4 ------ *note the repeated triples throughout the chapter

​

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

 

[LittleNipper]

The high priest was as the other religious leaders of Jesus' time......they did not believe Jesus was the Christ and because of their unbelief it was blasphemy for him to claim he was the Christ. Above Jesus was not asked if you are God and he never claimed to be God......you are making false assumptions.

Nonsense! They constantly say that HE (JESUS) makes HIMSELF out to be equal with GOD.

You have conveniently passed over the word "given" to him, signifying a beginning point in time and not something he inherently had forever.

JESUS had emptied HIMSELF to take on humanity and become SON of MAN. CHRIST depended on the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT from the very beginning of HIS MINISTRY.

Hard to grasp why it is trinitarians join forces with those who had Jesus killed.....the high priest and religious leaders were all envious, liars, false accusers, didn't understand the words of Jesus, and hated him. Yet, trinitarians side with them each and every time, weird. Jesus was asked if he was the Christ, he said "yes, I am".......but you and the liars say he is claiming to be God, why twist his words?

JESUS was in fact claiming to be GOD. He in ONE with the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT! I AM is YAHW = JEHOVAH/YAHWEH JESUS likely said it in Hebrew and that would have emphasized that implication. JESUS CHRIST NEVER denied what they said. And HE could have answered them in an entirely different way. You simply do not understand the magnitude of GOD and HIS immense scope and power. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow. There's some more triplets for you.

 

[redbeer]

Absolutely! And the only reason why we can Worship CHRIST is entirely dependent on the FACT that there is but ONE GOD that is manifested in THREE beings who are apologetically ONE.
And that is why we can sing without any reservation HOLY, HOLY, HOLY. The hymn is based on Revelation 4 ------ *note the repeated triples throughout the chapter

​

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Problem is, there is only one sitting on the throne and Jesus sits to the right of the throne. No multi-personage here on the throne. I understand scripture doesn't speak of a trinity and trinitarians need to be imaginative with scripture, but dang, this is a wild stretch.

 

[LittleNipper]

CHRIST cannot live in you if you don't worship HIM. In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD was GOD. The TRINITY (FATHER, SON, SPIRIT) is the mystery manifested to the saints of CHRIST.