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[W:1396] Questions that atheists are afraid to answer

But I know you would rather pay word games than have an intellectually honest discussion.
Ah, but that is a really important part of this: language & meaning.

But only you, or let me say especially you, play games with language. Why? Because you cannot define truth through language. That is why everything becomes fuzzy, indistinct, borderless, and relative.

David, you have been exposed. You are (and I say this kindly) an intellectual fraud by definition.

Intellectually honest? [Raucous laughter!]
 
That's your answer? that's your answer to



Of course answering questions at all, let alone honestly has always been a tall order for you.



How do you know? I mean where do you get this from? what evidence is there that "Everything that exists can be detected in some way" all this is is an axiom, something you assert as true, a belief.



Yes word games, that's where I say something that you cannot understand.

I imagined a shelf on my wall two weeks ago, today there's a real shelf on my wall.

I imagined a software utility that could help admin staff do something, today there's a real utility helping staff.

There is a temporal relationship here David, imagination precedes creation, creation depends upon imagination.

So an early step in a created thing existing materially is an envisaged thing, an imagined thing existing, unless real things like shelves can just appear out of nowhere in a blink, I don't see how you can argue that imagined things are not real, they are real, they exist and the have consequences, something that doesn't exist can't have consequences David.

I understand your word games quite well nd refuse to play along.

Imaginary things are not real. Again you play a word game and change it to imagined things. You just don't quit, do you?

About that shelf, did you imagine into existence the materials and tools needed for it to exist?

Is the software just in your head, or does it exist on a magnetic medium in a machine capable of reading it. Did those materials get imagined into existence?
 
Ah, but that is a really important part of this: language & meaning.

But only you, or let me say especially you, play games with language. Why? Because you cannot define truth through language. That is why everything becomes fuzzy, indistinct, borderless, and relative.

David, you have been exposed. You are (and I say this kindly) an intellectual fraud by definition.

Intellectually honest? [Raucous laughter!]

The only intellectual frauds here are you and Sherlock. Every time you post you prove it.
 
Warn me about what? I know that she and you are full of it.

I tried before to warn you about "something was very wrong with your mind" and "you have yourself removed yourself from being taken seriously at any level" and "You are intellectually dead".

She read you like a book Davey boy.
 
I tried before to warn you about "something was very wrong with your mind" and "you have yourself removed yourself from being taken seriously at any level" and "You are intellectually dead".

She read you like a book Davey boy.

Both of you way ahead of me in the not being taken seriously category, Sherley boy.
 
Atheism literally means that a person lacks theism. An atheist is just a person who lacks theistic belief.

Agnostic literally means a lack of knowledge.

You said above that atheists are dishonest and should call themselves agnostics.

Its ass backwards. Atheists are honest. They lack theistic belief.

Agnostics say they lack knowledge. That is dishonest in my opinion. They have knowledge of theism, and they do t believe it, which makes them atheists. They have knowledge of theism, but do not hold theistic beliefs.

They are atheists who lack the courage to just say it.
I suppose that is one way to see this, but as an Agnostic/Atheist I simply accept that I do not "Know" something does not exist out there but absolutely know the Gods of men are not it.
 
I understand your word games quite well and refuse to play along.

Its an excuse to avoid embarrassment because you have an ego that makes it hard for you to be honest, that's what's really going on David, no word games.

Imaginary things are not real. Again you play a word game and change it to imagined things. You just don't quit, do you?

Imaginary things are very very real, the world is filled with imagined and imaginary things, these things exist, they must exist in order for us to name them, refer to them, talk about them, share them.

About that shelf, did you imagine into existence the materials and tools needed for it to exist?

Yes of course, I imagined it, the imagined thing existed within my imagination, I then took steps to materialize it and ordered it from Amazon.

Is the software just in your head, or does it exist on a magnetic medium in a machine capable of reading it. Did those materials get imagined into existence?

At one point yes, of course, it was just in my head, that real phenomenon, that real experience preceded me materializing the imagined thing, the imagined thing existed in the machine that is my brain, just as much as it existing on a chip or floppy disk.

There could never be a shelf on a wall or a piece of software without them being imagined first, so on that basis imagined things must be pretty f*****g important and pretty f*****g important things can't be not real - unless it's you who wants to start word games.

:ROFLMAO:
 
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The only intellectual frauds here are you and Sherlock. Every time you post you prove it.
There is more mileage to be gotten from an open investigation of the epistemological crisis than there is in mere accusation.

This is why I try to carry on talking about ‘the times we are in’ and ‘looming cultural crisis’ and ‘defensive postures’ and also insecurity and confusion.

These are the internal results of metaphysical confusion and ungrounding. This is what happens when man loses or has stripped from him his metaphysical anchor.
 
I suppose that is one way to see this, but as an Agnostic/Atheist I simply accept that I do not "Know" something does not exist out there but absolutely know the Gods of men are not it.

The problem is, how can there be anything but the gods of men?
 
Its an excuse to avoid embarrassment because you have an ego that makes it hard for you to be honest, that's what's really going on David, no word games.



Imaginary things are very very real, the world is filled with imagined and imaginary things, these things exist, they must exist in order for us to name them, refer to them.



Yes of course, I imagined it, the imagined thing existed within my imagination, I then took steps to materialize it and ordered it from Amazon.



At one point yes, of course, it was just in my head, that real phenomenon, that real experience preceded me materializing the imagined thing.

There could never be a shelf on a wall or a piece of software without them being imagined first, so on that basis imagined things must be pretty f*****g important.

I don't play word games with you and you don't like it. Where did that shelf material come from? Hmmmmm!
 
There is more mileage to be gotten from an open investigation of the epistemological crisis than there is in mere accusation.

This is why I try to carry on talking about ‘the times we are in’ and ‘looming cultural crisis’ and ‘defensive postures’ and also insecurity and confusion.

These are the internal results of metaphysical confusion and ungrounding. This is what happens when man loses or has stripped from him his metaphysical anchor.

You talk about things that exist only in your imagination. There is no such thing as metaphysical anchors. You sure like to dramatize reality.
 
You talk about things that exist only in your imagination. There is no such thing as metaphysical anchors. You sure like to dramatize reality.

What does it matter whether something exists within one's imagination or on paper? they equally exist.
 
No, they do not. And imagined bird is not the same as a real one.

I did not say they were the same, I said they are each real because they each exist, if something exists then it must be real surely?

No wonder you're an atheist, no rational logical system would ever work for you.
 
I did not say they were the same, I said they are each real because they each exist, if something exists then it must be real surely?

No wonder you're an atheist, no rational logical system would ever work for you.

Yes, thoughts in the imagination are real. So what?
 
Ah, but that is a really important part of this: language & meaning.

But only you, or let me say especially you, play games with language. Why? Because you cannot define truth through language. That is why everything becomes fuzzy, indistinct, borderless, and relative.

David, you have been exposed. You are (and I say this kindly) an intellectual fraud by definition.

Intellectually honest? [Raucous laughter!]
Your hypocrisy is amusing. I point out the many flaws in your thinking ( I will not call it reasoning because as dave said, your intellectually dishonest) and you play games with your responses.
Sherlock is annoying because he holds his side on nothing but arrogance. Where as you I suspect will be annoying because you think playing cute and putting a text walls gives you an argument.

Neither of you have an argument worth any more than the dishonesty with which you argue.
 
The very definition of atheism is “nothing to believe in” as regards a “God”.

No it isn't.

Atheism
Noun

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

The question is why even go there? Why name it something? Why give a name to some supernatural belief and why give a name to a disbelief in that belief? Both are pointless. Just live in the present moment.
 
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You talk about things that exist only in your imagination. There is no such thing as metaphysical anchors. You sure like to dramatize reality.
You told me that there is no truth of any sort. And now you are making a truth-claim.

I well understand that you do not understand what man’s imagination is, and for this reason you cannot consider its ‘reflective’ nature. In all senses, in all ways, now and forever, man’s memory and imagination are ‘reflective’.

Now, I do also very well understand that you do indeed deny that there is a god. But please notice that you, by your own declaration, have no basis of any sort to make such a robust truth-claim. On what basis — on what epistemological basis mind you — do you base the assertion?

Again, by your own definitions, your ‘first principles’, you cannot make such a claim.

A metaphysical anchor could be something as simple, or as basic, as an ‘idea’ — such as ‘justice is a good and necessary thing’. There is not objective power that exists in this world, nor in your world, that can insist or does insist that ‘justice is good’ nor one that enforces it. It is an idea peculiar to man.

In this sense ‘justice’ is an idea and it is, in this sense, metaphysical. It is your (or culture’s, or a given people’s) metaphysical imposition on our world.

There are all manner of different ‘metaphysical anchors’. You should be able to see them yourself!

Obviously, when I refer to metaphysics and to divinity, or the transcendent, I am referring to a category that you obviously deny. But not because it is metaphysical, since you can recognize a metaphysical notion or value-imposition.

Now, I have just used language to explain, clearly & definitively, things that are real and also true.
 
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