• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W: #1372][W: #1004] [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
What union do you mean? Where is the union mentioned in our constitution?
Click to expand...


Here ya go (emphasis added):

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government
Click to expand...
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Cordelier said:
Jesus, Bob, you want to talk about disingenuous? Try looking in the mirror sometime. Despite your obtuse game - "Who are you quoting?" - you know damn well what I'm talking about. Kennedy's inaugural speech - "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." Does that ring a bell for you?

So, once again.... if assuring the survival and success of liberty was worth "paying any price" in 1961... then why wasn't it in 1861? It's a simple question.
Click to expand...

The south paid the price for their liberty.

Why bother me if you think all I do is give you non satisfactory replies?

I find your style off putting. It means you bury me in your rabbit hole as some call things said here.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

CHuDWah said:
Here ya go (emphasis added):
Click to expand...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government


Well done. And Abe did not guarantee the departed states a republican form of Government.

Following the lead in the Declaration of independence, they told the world, it is their war of independence.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
The south paid the price for their liberty.

Why bother me if you think all I do is give you non satisfactory replies?

I find your style off putting. It means you bury me in your rabbit hole as some call things said here.
Click to expand...

What about the people they were keeping in chains, Bob? What about their liberty?
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Cordelier said:
Jesus, Bob, you want to talk about disingenuous? Try looking in the mirror sometime. Despite your obtuse game - "Who are you quoting?" - you know damn well what I'm talking about. Kennedy's inaugural speech - "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." Does that ring a bell for you?

So, once again.... if assuring the survival and success of liberty was worth "paying any price" in 1961... then why wasn't it in 1861? It's a simple question.
Click to expand...

Frankly, believing my former reply will not do for you, since your motive is not to learn, but to try to trick me into some sort of reply you want, I will go further.

I voted for Kennedy as an avid drag racer. I was busy creating racing engines. Girls loved me and that kept me very busy. As well I was fighting the draft. I had a business with two employees at my then young age.

Frankly what Kennedy said really was not of interest to me. All I knew was as president he expected me to serve him in his army and I did not want to serve him.

Abe was not out to add liberty to any resident. Abe was out to snuff out liberty for a number of states by using explosives, and armed men to force them to his will.

As a dictator, he worked wonders.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Cordelier said:
What about the people they were keeping in chains, Bob? What about their liberty?
Click to expand...

The chain bill must have been mighty high. LOL
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
Frankly, believing my former reply will not do for you, since your motive is not to learn, but to try to trick me into some sort of reply you want, I will go further.

I voted for Kennedy as an avid drag racer. I was busy creating racing engines. Girls loved me and that kept me very busy. As well I was fighting the draft. I had a business with two employees at my then young age.

Frankly what Kennedy said really was not of interest to me. All I knew was as president he expected me to serve him in his army and I did not want to serve him.

Abe was not out to add liberty to any resident. Abe was out to snuff out liberty for a number of states by using explosives, and armed men to force them to his will.

As a dictator, he worked wonders.
Click to expand...

Was slavery a bad thing?
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
The chain bill must have been mighty high. LOL
Click to expand...

This is why you cant be taken seriously. You wont answer a question. Every question you ask should be responded to in a silly manner
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Fledermaus said:
Intentional ignorance as to the content and intent of one of Kennedy's most famous speeches.

ETA - You claim to be 81 and you know nothing of the speech?
Click to expand...

I was in Germany when he gave the speech and stood later on his platform. LMAO

I spent far more time than he did in Berlin so Ich Bin ein Berliner. LMAO
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
Frankly, believing my former reply will not do for you, since your motive is not to learn, but to try to trick me into some sort of reply you want, I will go further.

I voted for Kennedy as an avid drag racer. I was busy creating racing engines. Girls loved me and that kept me very busy. As well I was fighting the draft. I had a business with two employees at my then young age.

Frankly what Kennedy said really was not of interest to me. All I knew was as president he expected me to serve him in his army and I did not want to serve him.

Abe was not out to add liberty to any resident. Abe was out to snuff out liberty for a number of states by using explosives, and armed men to force them to his will.

As a dictator, he worked wonders.
Click to expand...

Wow... a thriving business with two employees, huh? So why not pay off a Doctor to say you had bone spurs?
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

vegas giants said:
Was slavery a bad thing?
Click to expand...

Yes, it was; especially after 1808, as were the various "black codes" that denied and disparaged the whole and entire concept of natural rights for the right wing (except in abortion threads).
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

vegas giants said:
This is why you cant be taken seriously. You wont answer a question. Every question you ask should be responded to in a silly manner
Click to expand...

You get told this daily. Funny for you to suddenly chastize.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
I was in Germany when he gave the speech and stood later on his platform. LMAO

I spent far more time than he did in Berlin so Ich Bin ein Berliner. LMAO
Click to expand...

Just look at the dishonesty.

Feigned ignorance.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Cordelier said:
Slavery isn't a laughing matter, Bob.
Click to expand...

Man you are right about that. But here I now hear of chains on the slaves. Funny that.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Fledermaus said:
More ignorant accusations. Proving you wrong isn't a basis for saying someone hates whites.

Before Lincoln took office in March, a new Confederate government was established in February 1861 which was considered illegal by the government of the United States.

An illegal government fires upon Federal troops.

The South started the war.
Click to expand...


It went back farther than February 1861. Note some of the attacks preceded the applicable state's secession. That made it rebellion even if one grants those states had the right to secede later.

1860:

November 6: Lincoln was elected, although the electoral votes were not officially counted until February 13, 1861.

November 7: South Carolina arrested a Federal officer attempting to move supplies from the Charleston Arsenal to Fort Moultrie.

November 9: South Carolina seized the Charleston harbor batteries.

December 20: South Carolina seceded.

December 27: South Carolina occupied Fort Moultrie and Castle Pinckney at Charleston

December 30: South Carolina seized the Charleston Arsenal.


1861:

January 2: South Carolina occupied Fort Jackson at Charleston.

January 3: Georgia took Fort Pulaski at Savannah.

January 4: Alabama seized the Mount Vernon Arsenal.

January 5: Alabama took Fort Gaines and Fort Morgan at Mobile.

January 6: Florida seized the Apalachicola Arsenal.

January 7: Florida took Fort Marion at St Augustine.

January 9: South Carolina fired on the unarmed merchant ship Star of the West, which was under contract to the War Department, to prevent it delivering reinforcements and supplies to Fort Sumter. Mississippi seceded.

January 10: Louisiana seized the Baton Rouge Arsenal and Barracks, and took Fort Jackson and Fort St Philip at Plaquemines Parish. Florida seceded.

January 11: Louisiana seized the Marine Hospital at New Orleans. Alabama seceded.

January 12: Florida took Fort Barrancas, Fort McRae and the Navy Yard at Pensacola.

January 14: Louisiana took Fort Pike at New Orleans.

January 19: Georgia seceded.

January 20: Mississippi took Fort Massachusetts on Ship Island.

January 24: Georgia seized the Augusta Arsenal

January 26: Georgia took Fort Jackson and Oglethorpe Barracks at Savannah. Louisiana seceded.

January 28: Louisiana took Fort Macomb at New Orleans.

January 29: Louisiana seized the Revenue Cutter Robert McClelland at New Orleans.

January 30: Alabama seized the Revenue Cutter Lewis Cass at Mobile.

January 31: Louisiana seized the Branch Mint and Customs House and the Revenue Schooner Washington at New Orleans.

February 1: Texas seceded.

February 8: Arkansas seized the Little Rock Arsenal.

February 12: Arkansas seized ordnance stores at Napoleon.

February 16: Texas seized the San Antonio Arsenal and Barracks.

February 19: Louisiana seized the Paymaster’s Office at New Orleans and Texas seized Federal property at Brazos Santiago.

March 2: Texas seized the Revenue Cutter Henry Dodge at Galveston.

March 4: Lincoln was inaugurated.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
The south paid the price for their liberty.

Why bother me if you think all I do is give you non satisfactory replies?

I find your style off putting. It means you bury me in your rabbit hole as some call things said here.
Click to expand...

The south paid the price for their desire to prevent the liberty of nearly 4 million humans.

FTFY
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Fledermaus said:
The south paid the price for their desire to prevent the liberty of nearly 4 million humans.

FTFY
Click to expand...

However you think, it was lawful. Do you understand what lawful means?
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

CHuDWah said:
It went back farther than February 1861. Note some of the attacks preceded the applicable state's secession. That made it rebellion even if one grants those states had the right to secede later.

1860:

November 6: Lincoln was elected, although the electoral votes were not officially counted until February 13, 1861.

November 7: South Carolina arrested a Federal officer attempting to move supplies from the Charleston Arsenal to Fort Moultrie.

November 9: South Carolina seized the Charleston harbor batteries.

December 20: South Carolina seceded.

December 27: South Carolina occupied Fort Moultrie and Castle Pinckney at Charleston

December 30: South Carolina seized the Charleston Arsenal.


1861:

January 2: South Carolina occupied Fort Jackson at Charleston.

January 3: Georgia took Fort Pulaski at Savannah.

January 4: Alabama seized the Mount Vernon Arsenal.

January 5: Alabama took Fort Gaines and Fort Morgan at Mobile.

January 6: Florida seized the Apalachicola Arsenal.

January 7: Florida took Fort Marion at St Augustine.

January 9: South Carolina fired on the unarmed merchant ship Star of the West, which was under contract to the War Department, to prevent it delivering reinforcements and supplies to Fort Sumter. Mississippi seceded.

January 10: Louisiana seized the Baton Rouge Arsenal and Barracks, and took Fort Jackson and Fort St Philip at Plaquemines Parish. Florida seceded.

January 11: Louisiana seized the Marine Hospital at New Orleans. Alabama seceded.

January 12: Florida took Fort Barrancas, Fort McRae and the Navy Yard at Pensacola.

January 14: Louisiana took Fort Pike at New Orleans.

January 19: Georgia seceded.

January 20: Mississippi took Fort Massachusetts on Ship Island.

January 24: Georgia seized the Augusta Arsenal

January 26: Georgia took Fort Jackson and Oglethorpe Barracks at Savannah. Louisiana seceded.

January 28: Louisiana took Fort Macomb at New Orleans.

January 29: Louisiana seized the Revenue Cutter Robert McClelland at New Orleans.

January 30: Alabama seized the Revenue Cutter Lewis Cass at Mobile.

January 31: Louisiana seized the Branch Mint and Customs House and the Revenue Schooner Washington at New Orleans.

February 1: Texas seceded.

February 8: Arkansas seized the Little Rock Arsenal.

February 12: Arkansas seized ordnance stores at Napoleon.

February 16: Texas seized the San Antonio Arsenal and Barracks.

February 19: Louisiana seized the Paymaster’s Office at New Orleans and Texas seized Federal property at Brazos Santiago.

March 2: Texas seized the Revenue Cutter Henry Dodge at Galveston.

March 4: Lincoln was inaugurated.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

This will be studiously ignored by someone here.
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
What did George Washington secede over?

Since you love gabbing about slavery, put his secession in those terms.
Click to expand...

Unlike the Confederacy, George Washington did not go to war to try and save slavery.

As shown by the fact that slavery is not protected or enshrined anywhere in the Constitution
 
Re: [W:475]The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

Robertinfremont said:
Then knock off declaring it was about slavery.
Click to expand...

Bob the racist can’t bear to face the fact that his heroes went to war over slavery...so he’s melting down again.

What a surprise...not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom