[W:1296] PUTIN FEARS COUP Russian tanks in Moscow to ‘secure Kremlin’ as cowering Putin fears Wagner group are launching coup to overthrow him

[Conservative]

No but you could try constraining your verbal incontinence to threads where it more pertains to the topic at hand.

And what topic would that be destroying the liberal claim that Jan 6 was a coup

 

[Conservative]

Really?

Then why do you continue to excuse what he did, and the people who inspired and directed him?

Because it doesn't affect me, my family or the country diverting from the real problem Biden incompetence

 

[Geoist]

WHY? All you do is ignore data and facts

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[soap box]

Don't know nor care

Yes, but if the most successful military operations for Russia were accomplished by the Wagner group, and since they are being either arrested or integrated into the army, will Ukraine have an advantage in the coming months?

 

[Gatsby]

This seems to have worked out well for Nikolai Patrushev and the FSB. I wonder if he's the Michael Corleone taking out the 5 families. This eliminated most of his rivals in one fell swoop:

- Putin is humiliated and weakened.
- Prigozhin is exiled and probably a dead man walking.
- Wagner will be disbanded and absorbed into the MOD, or scattered to the winds.
- Shoigu and Gerasimov publicly demonstrated their incompetence, and got Putin to throw them under the bus before reneging and saying they'll keep their jobs anyway.

The only ones who emerge with their reputations intact are the FSB, who let Wagner across the border and into Rostov.

 

[Cardinal]

This seems to have worked out well for Nikolai Patrushev and the FSB. I wonder if he's the Michael Corleone taking out the 5 families. This eliminated most of his rivals in one fell swoop:

- Putin is humiliated and weakened.
- Prigozhin is exiled and probably a dead man walking.
- Wagner will be disbanded and absorbed into the MOD, or scattered to the winds.
- Shoigu and Gerasimov publicly demonstrated their incompetence, and got Putin to throw them under the bus before reneging and saying they'll keep their jobs anyway.

The only ones who emerge with their reputations intact are the FSB, who let Wagner across the border and into Rostov.

By the way, is it confirmed that Putin took that flight out of Moscow? Because if it is then I don't see how he comes back from that. Not that he's looking good even if it isn't confirmed, but that would be the killing blow in my view.

 

[Rexedgar]

If Wagner is disbanded, what becomes of their escapades in Africa and other spots around the globe?

Russian mercenaries exploit African country as they fight in Ukraine

“I asked everyone for help. ... Was I supposed to refuse the help from those who wanted to help us?” Central African Republic President Faustin-Archange Touadéra tells NBC News.

www.nbcnews.com

CAR is a big cash cow for Wagner, who gets the loot?

 

[Ikari]

And what topic would that be destroying the liberal claim that Jan 6 was a coup

The 1/6 Sedition was a failed attempt at sedition and to overthrow American democracy, but that is neither here nor there for this topic.

 

[Gatsby]

The last known picture of Prigozhin, after he agreed to exile in Belarus. He hasn't been publicly seen since this.

To stick with The Godfather theme of this whole scheme...that look on his face reminds me of Tessio getting into the car fully aware of what's about to happen.

 

[Schrott]

One way of knowing how 'successfully' staged it was will be in seeing how much change there now is in the Russian military leadership.

I wonder if the ease with which his troops were hurtling towards Moscow unnerved Prigozhin and he decided to quit while he was very much ahead.

You think a guy, who sacrificed 10s of thousand of his soldiers for a useless city, would flinch because 5-10 thousand of his man could get into trouble. I do not think so. He would have sacrificed them without blinking, over lunch, like a afterthought, if this drive for Moscow would have been an honest attempt to capture it.
All show in my opinion.
But never the less it showed in what terrible state Russia is. How this war is destroying the country, or is bringing its rotten core to the surface.
Its the endgame in my opinion.

 

[Rexedgar]

The last known picture of Prigozhin, after he agreed to exile in Belarus. He hasn't been publicly seen since this.

To stick with The Godfather theme of this whole scheme...that look on his face reminds me of Tessio getting into the car fully aware of what's about to happen.

View attachment 67453924

“Tell Mikey it was only business?”

 

[Galactic Spin]

Exile... to Belarus, the Russian puppet state? He believes he would be safe there? He agreed to this?

And he promises to spend the rest of his days playing chess and birdwatching, or something?

Someone help me understand this. None of it makes sense.

Maybe they wrote him a check for $100 million or something. What the hell is any of this?

 

[Felis Leo]

This seems to have worked out well for Nikolai Patrushev and the FSB. I wonder if he's the Michael Corleone taking out the 5 families. This eliminated most of his rivals in one fell swoop:

- Putin is humiliated and weakened.
- Prigozhin is exiled and probably a dead man walking.
- Wagner will be disbanded and absorbed into the MOD, or scattered to the winds.
- Shoigu and Gerasimov publicly demonstrated their incompetence, and got Putin to throw them under the bus before reneging and saying they'll keep their jobs anyway.

The only ones who emerge with their reputations intact are the FSB, who let Wagner across the border and into Rostov.

Thank goodness. For a moment, I was worried that Shoigu and Gerasimov would actually be replaced with competent senior generals.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

That's as good a theory as any because the deal they made doesn't make sense. There must be something significant about the deal that we don't know. For both Putin and Prigo, the high rhetoric from last night has been suddenly replaced by forgiveness.

What? What kind of ruthless Russian authoritarian is into forgiveness?!?!!?! Answer: A weak Russian leader who isn't completely in control of his country.

Russian troops allowed the rebels to pass through the border, they captured the city of Rostov last night without firing a shot. Civilians cheered them on, and still with all that momentum, they didn't stall or reposition, but they retreated.

The motivation to forgive the rebels is hard to accept, since we are trusting Putin to keep his word. It's hard for me to believe they will trust him.

The motivation to suddenly stop the campaign isn't clear either.

So at the moment we don't have the whole story, and what we do know raises lots of questions.

I'm glad someone else is as confused as I am about this.

There is no way in hell we have the whole story. Prigozhin was balls-out furious, willing to take on the Russian military, shooting down Russian aircraft, then just decides to stop? "To avoid bloodshed?"

 

[Jredbaron96]

Thank goodness. For a moment, I was worried that Shoigu and Gerasimov would actually be replaced with competent senior generals.

Thing is, even if they did step down, who would replace them?

It's pretty clear Putin has surrounded himself with yes man (Shoigu leads the armed forces and has no military experience) and it has seeped into the armed forces as seemingly every level. The much vaunted replacement of senior leadership a few months back hasn't resulted in any signs of approaching victory in Ukraine.

 

[Felis Leo]

Thing is, even if they did step down, who would replace them?

It's pretty clear Putin has surrounded himself with yes man (Shoigu leads the armed forces and has no military experience) and it has seeped into the armed forces as seemingly every level. The much vaunted replacement of senior leadership a few months back hasn't resulted in any signs of approaching victory in Ukraine.

You are right. The only competent I can think of would be General Surovikin. But his competence mainly shined in evacuating his men out of Kherson.

 

[Cardinal]

And what topic would that be destroying the liberal claim that Jan 6 was a coup

Why is this person in this thread?

 

[iguanaman]

1000 idiots without military help aren't going to overthrow anything

All they needed to do is delay the electoral count vote and Trump was going to say the election must be decided by a vote in Congress. Then there were the fake electors. Trump was attacking the Constitution from many angles. Were they mostly incompetent buffoons? Most certainly. That was a Trump trademark but their intent was clear regardless.

 

[Sven Karma]

You think a guy, who sacrificed 10s of thousand of his soldiers for a useless city, would flinch because 5-10 thousand of his man could get into trouble. I do not think so. He would have sacrificed them without blinking, over lunch, like a afterthought, if this drive for Moscow would have been an honest attempt to capture it.
All show in my opinion.
But never the less it showed in what terrible state Russia is. How this war is destroying the country, or is bringing its rotten core to the surface.
Its the endgame in my opinion.

There's been a lot of show, I guess the smoke is also obscuring the 'cui bono' because so far the only winner is Ukraine. Prigozhin's forces are now slooshed about the map, ditto the Chechen ones.

Can you still fly from Belarus to pretty much anywhere? In one Kremlinesque thriller I read last year 'the chef' had a nice villa outside Bastia in Corsica.

 

[Conservative]

The 1/6 Sedition was a failed attempt at sedition and to overthrow American democracy, but that is neither here nor there for this topic.

that is pure liberal fantasy and diversion from the real issue, voter fraud and the destruction of our democracy by stealing elections by the left all promoting the fraud that you apparently support. It is democracy that the left hates if it doesn't generate the results the left wants. You want a democracy then support states' rights as those states are PURE democracies

 

[Conservative]

All they needed to do is delay the electoral count vote and Trump was going to say the election must be decided by a vote in Congress. Then there were the fake electors. Trump was attacking the Constitution from many angles. Were they mostly incompetent buffoons? Most certainly. That was a Trump trademark but their intent was clear regardless.

If you truly support democracy then support states' rights for that is what Trump promoted, returning power to the people which apparently you cannot accept

 

[Jetboogieman]

democracy

As a Trump supporter you have no right to talk about who supports democracy and who doesn’t.

We know for a fact though, that you don’t.

 

[SoCal]

All they needed to do is delay the electoral count vote and Trump was going to say the election must be decided by a vote in Congress. Then there were the fake electors. Trump was attacking the Constitution from many angles. Were they mostly incompetent buffoons? Most certainly. That was a Trump trademark but their intent was clear regardless.

It's obvious that in Conservative's narrow mind overthrowing a government can't happen unless there're tanks in the street...

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The 1/6 Sedition was a failed attempt at sedition and to overthrow American democracy, but that is neither here nor there for this topic.

That is not an effective warning