[W:1103] Netanyahu tells Israel ‘We are at war’ after Hamas launches an unprecedented attack on the country - Live Thread.

[Chagos]

To the page full of preachy Limeys, ...................~

go fly a kite you danged colonial

relax, just kidding

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I'm not sure that democracy in the Arab world would be of benefit.

It was military dictator Anwar Sadat who sat down with ex-Irgun terrorist Menachim Begin and hammered out the Camp David accords which have maintained Egytian-Israeli peace for nearly 50 years now. It was the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) who assassinated him for this.

It was military dictator Hosni Mubarak who killed a bunch of MBs and put them back in their box. He maintained peace against their vociferous objection.

When MBs elected Morsi, he had little Mercy on non-Muslms, and would have reopened war with Israel, had not military dictator Sisi overthrown him and restored sanity to Egypt.

The best behaved Arab nation is Jordan, under the rule of a hereditary monarchy.

It appears that at least a large portion of the Arab world is incapable of self government, and needs to be under the rule of a military dictator who has a brain, unlike their public.

I don't disagree with any specific point you're making, but my take on the video is that the point he was trying to make is that it is a combination of religious extremism and lack of democracy that is at the root of the problem for the Palestinians, and Arab Muslims, in general.

 

[Apocalypse]

 

[Tigerace117]

Blah
Blah
Blah

And the British colonists had no right to steal land from the indigenous Americans
And the Spanish had no right to steal land from the Aztecs and other tribes who lived in Mexico
And the Portuguese had no right to steal Brazil
And the Brit’s had no right to steal Australia
And and and

Get over it. It happens. Why are you not bitching about all the other land grabs in the history of earth? Or were they ok because it wasn’t Jews doing it.
I don’t condone any land grab but I DO accept reality. I suggest you do the same.

And none of that is ongoing today, while Israel’s settler colonialism is.

 

[Tigerace117]

I'm not sure that democracy in the Arab world would be of benefit.

It was military dictator Anwar Sadat who sat down with ex-Irgun terrorist Menachim Begin and hammered out the Camp David accords which have maintained Egytian-Israeli peace for nearly 50 years now. It was the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) who assassinated him for this.

It was military dictator Hosni Mubarak who killed a bunch of MBs and put them back in their box. He maintained peace against their vociferous objection.

When MBs elected Morsi, he had little Mercy on non-Muslms, and would have reopened war with Israel, had not military dictator Sisi overthrown him and restored sanity to Egypt.

The best behaved Arab nation is Jordan, under the rule of a hereditary monarchy.

It appears that at least a large portion of the Arab world is incapable of self government, and needs to be under the rule of a military dictator who has a brain, unlike their public.

Sounds like it was awfully stupid of Israel to reject Sadat’s initial peace overtures and continue trying to colonize the Sinai, leading to him waging war against them and very nearly defeating them as a result.

 

[Tigerace117]

Israelis are equally nonchalant about massacring Palestinian civilians....which says an awful lot.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Of course Israel has the right to exist; inside her original borders. People are quick to ignore what started this whole fiasco; the illegal land grabs by Israel, and the routine expulsion of any Arab who was 'in the way'.
Israel won't give back the stolen land and evacuate the illegal 'settlements', and Hamas or another radical group in its place, won't give up their fight.

I think the activity of the right-wing parties and the settlers with the extreme political views certainly contributes to the conflict. I personally don't agree with this concept of a Greater Israel, however I believe there should be an Israel and that Israel has the right to exist as an ethno-Religious state. But I don't view that as the real problem.

The real problem is that Hamas wants to kill every Jew in the world, and destroy Israel completely. You see, Hamas did not murder Israelis last week because they were upset at "illegal" settlements. Hamas murdered Israelis last week because they want to exterminate Jews and destroy Israel. And when dealing with an enemy like that it just doesn't matter what Israel does, Hamas is going to try to murder Israelis anyway. And they are not going to stop until they themselves are killed. For Israel, its existential. And they have no choice.

There may come a time many years or decades from now when Israel will be able to make peace with Arab Muslims. Maybe it will never happen. But I know based on the evidence I've seen that Israel must eliminate Hamas as an entity if Israel is to be secure.

I also think it is in Israel's best interest, and it is morally right, for Israel to attempt to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties as much as possible as it prosecutes its war against Hamas.

But I don't agree with you at all, in any way, that last week was Israel's fault.

I find what happened last week to be so horrific, and barbaric, that I feel sick to my stomach even talking about the politics of it.

I don't think Israel or Israeli need to defend themselves in this debate. They don't need to justify their existence as a people, nor do they need to justify Israel's existence as a state. And that is what you are demanding of them when you blame them for last week's utterly barbaric attack on Israel by Hamas.

I think we should all be quiet and let the Israelis take out the trash, get the job done. It's their right, their obligation, their duty to do so.

And if given the chance, if they had the power, these radical Muslims, organizations like Hamas, would murder the rest of us too, or put us under Islamic rule in the best case scenario. So Israel is doing us a favor.

 

[Apocalypse]

Israelis are equally nonchalant about massacring Palestinian civilians....which says an awful lot.

Okay comrade.

 

[Tigerace117]

I think the activity of the right-wing parties and the settlers with the extreme political views certainly contributes to the conflict. I personally don't agree with this concept of a Greater Israel, however I believe there should be an Israel and that Israel has the right to exist as an ethno-Religious state. But I don't view that as the real problem.

The real problem is that Hamas wants to kill every Jew in the world, and destroy Israel completely. You see, Hamas did not murder Israelis last week because they were upset at "illegal" settlements. Hamas murdered Israelis last week because they want to exterminate Jews and destroy Israel. And when dealing with an enemy like that it just doesn't matter what Israel does, Hamas is going to try to murder Israelis anyway.

There may come a time many years or decades from now when Israel will be able to make peace with Arab Muslims. Maybe it will never happen. But I know based on the evidence I've seen that Israel must eliminate Hamas as an entity if Israel is to be secure.

I also think it is in Israel's best interest, and it is morally right, for Israel to reduce Palestinian civilian casualties as much as possible as it prosecutes its war against Hamas.

But I don't agree with you at all, in any way, that last week was Israel's fault.

I find what happened last week to be so horrific, and barbaric, that I feel sick to my stomach even talking about the politics of it.

I think we should all be quiet and let the Israelis take out the trash, get the job done. It's their right, their obligation, their duty to do so.

Thank you for proving, yet again, why utterly meaningless hot air all those condemnations of Russia are.

You lot don’t care about civilians being slaughtered.....and you proved it yet again.

 

[Tigerace117]

Okay comrade.

It’s not 1980 anymore.

Figure it out.

 

[iguanaman]

Buy them off - everyone has an offer they can't refuse. In addition to giving them that large area of land, give them hundreds of billions of dollars worth of infrastructure, and a few billion of dollars in aid every year for a decade or two. If they screw that up due to corruption or whatever, that's their problem, let them sleep in their bed.

They would just build up and train an army to invade Israel. There is no settlement that the hardliners that control the Palestinians will accept. Muslims often continue fighting those they see as enemies for 1000's of years like the Shia and Sunni tribes.

 

[iguanaman]

Thank you for proving, yet again, why utterly meaningless hot air all those condemnations of Russia are.

You lot don’t care about civilians being slaughtered.....and you proved it yet again.

Hamas does not care about civilians being slaughtered they see every Palestinian as a hostage and a human shield. They could stop the killing anytime they want. Hamas and the Russians in Ukraine are very much alike. What they cannot achieve on the battlefield they try to get with terror strikes on civilians. They both have no respect at all for human lives.

 

[eman623]

Bunch of Harvard shithead groups blaming the victim:

Harvard student organizations claim Israel 'entirely responsible' for Gaza attacks

Several Harvard student organizations signed a joint statement holding Israel responsible for the deadly attack by Hamas and the subsequent war that followed.

www.foxnews.com

What a shithole. Of course the administration is cool with this

Harvard president Claudine Gay pushed back on attempts to name students who signed a letter blaming Israel for the massacres committed by Hamas amid mounting criticism of her handling of the crisis.

Gay said the Ivy League school “embraces a commitment to free expression” in a video released Thursday night

Harvard president Claudine Gay rejects punishing students behind anti-Israel letter

Harvard President Claudine Gay released a video early Friday Gay saying that the Ivy League school “embraces a commitment to free expression.”

nypost.com

Which sounds fine until you remember Harvard is the worst school in the country for free speech.

Harvard is named worst school for free speech — scoring zero out of possible 100​

Harvard is named worst school for free speech — scoring zero out of possible 100

Harvard comes is last in new rankings from the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). The school is in a “crisis time,” according to one professor.

nypost.com

 

[Tigerace117]

Hamas does not care about civilians being slaughtered they see every Palestinian as a hostage and a human shield. They could stop the killing anytime they want.

Given that Israel A) has an extensive history of using human shields and B) clearly does not care about slaughter civilians, sounds like a compelling argument to end aid to Tel Aviv.

 

[iguanaman]

Given that Israel A) has an extensive history of using human shields and B) clearly does not care about slaughter civilians, sounds like a compelling argument to end aid to Tel Aviv.

You are making stuff up because you have no real answer to the question. Why are you not calling for the release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas? They cannot win this war militarily and instead choose to force Israel to kill innocent civilians to assure an attack like this will never happen again from Hamas. That is what you would be demanding if your family was attacked and killed.

 

[Apocalypse]

Number now updated to over 1,400 Israelis murdered in the Hamas terrorists' massacres.
About 150 kidnapped. Over 3,500 injured.
Bodies are still being identified, new bodies are still being discovered.
New horrifying stories are still being told by the survivors.

 

[Tigerace117]

You are making stuff up because you have no real answer to the question. Why are you not calling for the release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas?

Nope. No matter how inconvenient that is for your narrative.


“According to many observers, including B'tselem, the IDF repeatedly used Palestinians as human shields. This practice became military policy during the Second Intifada, and was only dropped when Adalah challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. though the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[98] Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[99]

“During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[118]According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[118][119]Amnesty Internationalstated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[120] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[121][122]“

Human shield - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Fledermaus]

You are making stuff up because you have no real answer to the question. Why are you not calling for the release of the hostages and surrender of Hamas?

Because it is not "HATE MURICA" enough.

 

[iguanaman]

Nope. No matter how inconvenient that is for your narrative.


“According to many observers, including B'tselem, the IDF repeatedly used Palestinians as human shields. This practice became military policy during the Second Intifada, and was only dropped when Adalah challenged the practice before Israel's High Court of Justice in 2002. though the IDF persisted in using Palestinians in its 'neighbor procedure', whereby people picked at random were made to approach the houses of suspects and persuade them to surrender, a practice which arguably placed the former's lives in danger. The court ruled in October 2005 "that any use of Palestinian civilians during military actions is forbidden, including the 'prior warning procedure'." According to B'tselem, reports indicate that the practice has continued nonetheless, in military operations like Operation Cast Lead, and Operation Protective Edge, and the "vast majority of these reports were never investigated, and those that did result in no further action".[98] Neve Gordon and Nicola Perugini, in their study of the phenomenon, note that Israeli citizens in densely populated areas like Tel Aviv are never spoken of as human shields when Hamas fires rockets towards the Israeli Defense command located in the centre of that city, whereas Palestinians in Gaza are depicted as human shields when Israel fires rockets at, or bombs, equally densely populated cities like Gaza.[99]

“During the 2008–09 Gaza War known as Operation Cast Lead, Israeli military forces were accused of continuing to use civilians as human shields by Amnesty International and Breaking the Silence.[118]According to testimonies published by these two groups, Israeli forces used unarmed Palestinians including children to protect military positions, walk in front of armed soldiers; go into buildings to check for booby traps or gunmen; and inspect suspicious objects for explosives.[118][119]Amnesty Internationalstated that it found cases in which "Israeli troops forced Palestinians to stay in one room of their home while turning the rest of the house into a base and sniper position, effectively using the families, both adults and children, as human shields and putting them at risk".[120] The UN Human Rights Council also accused Israel of using human shields during the 2008–09 Gaza conflict.[121][122]“

Human shield - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LOL That is not using millions of Palestinians in Gaza as hostages and humans shields. Where is your anger at Russia targeting Supermarkets, Cafe's and funerals with their missiles? Hama's does not have the ability to guide their rockets either so whenever they fire them they are far more likely to hit civilian targets than isolated military ones.

 

[Tigerace117]

LOL That is not using millions of Palestinians in Gaza as humans shields. Where is your anger at Russia targeting Supermarkets, Cafe's and funerals with their missiles?

It’s Israel extensively using human shields....something you denied happened.

As people like you have conclusively proven, the US has no room to talk about Russia, as targeting civilians is a-okay as long as it‘s Israel or another US ally(or the US) doing it makes it —OK in your world.

 

[Tigerace117]

And, of course, in some people’s minds America is the eternal victim.

 

[iguanaman]

It’s Israel extensively using human shields....something you denied happened.

As people like you have conclusively proven, the US has no room to talk about Russia, as targeting civilians is a-okay as long as it‘s Israel or another US ally(or the US) doing it makes it —OK in your world.

They are not targeting civilians in Gaza they are hitting Hamas targets that are placed in the middle of civilian areas. Until you call on Hamas to stop this war you are nothing but complicit with everything Hamas has done. Ukraine does not do that so Russian blows up supermarkets and funerals.

 

[Tigerace117]

They are not targeting civilians in Gaza they are hitting Hamas targets that are placed in the middle of civilian areas. Until you call on Hamas to stop this war you are nothing but complicit with everything Hamas has done. Ukraine does not do that so Russian blows up supermarkets and funerals.

More utterly meaningless cries about Russia, as proven by your attempts to excuse and defend Israel slaughtering civilians en masse.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Hamas does not care about civilians being slaughtered they see every Palestinian as a hostage and a human shield. They could stop the killing anytime they want. Hamas and the Russians in Ukraine are very much alike. What they cannot achieve on the battlefield they try to get with terror strikes on civilians. They both have no respect at all for human lives.

It's far worse than that. It's not about using terror as a means to an end, such as the goals we've heard of before like ending the so-called occupation.

Hamas wants to kill every single Jew, just like Hitler wanted to.

That is why Israel has no choice but to eliminate Hamas as a functioning organization.

 

[iguanaman]

More utterly meaningless cries about Russia, as proven by your attempts to excuse and defend Israel slaughtering civilians en masse.

Still no call for Hamas to surrender and release the hostages I see. You want as many civilians to die in Gaza as Hamas does. What is "meaningless" is anything you say to the contrary. You fully support the murder of civilians by Russia in Ukraine too. Far more Ukrainian civilians have died in deliberate targeting by the invaders than Israel will ever kill as collateral damage.