[W:110] Was dying on the Cross necessary or a random method chosen by God ?

[Gordy327]

God’s moral standards/qualities in no way sets limitations on Him...

If God is not omniscient, then that's a limit.

 

[Gordy327]

What's it matter to you? It certainly doesn't matter to me.

It doesn't matter to me. I'm simply pointing out the theistic inconsistencies among theists, especially when they claim "truth."

 

[Gordy327]

The plain text itself. There’s no interpretation required in what I’m pointing out. The God of the Torah never claimed to be omnipotent, omniscient, or the only deity and the Israelites were polytheistic at least until after the Babylonian captivity.

As it relates to matters that do require interpretation - it’s no different than what scientists do when there is disagreement about how data should be interpreted.

As I indicated, people can interpret the same texts to mean different things. Yet many claim "truth."

 

[Napoleon]

As I indicated, people can interpret the same texts to mean different things. Yet many claim "truth."

No different than science.

 

[Daisy]

If God is not omniscient, then that's a limit.

But He is and He has the freedom to use it at His own discretion because He can do anything He wants...

 

[Gordy327]

No different than science.

Very different actually. Any disagreement in science requires further experimentation and collection of evidence to support or or refute hypotheses or conclusions. Religion is basically a "nuh uh, because the Bible told me so."

 

[Gordy327]

But He is and He has the freedom to use it at His own discretion because He can do anything He wants...

Does god have the ability to be omniscient even if he doesn't use it? If he uses it even once, he is by definition omniscient and knows literally Everything. Some seem to argue God lacks that ability to begin with.

 

[Napoleon]

Very different actually. Any disagreement in science requires further experimentation and collection of evidence to support or or refute hypotheses or conclusions. Religion is basically a "nuh uh, because the Bible told me so."

Dark matter is a perfect example. One camp says that when your observations contradict your physics then something is wrong with your physics. The other camp says nothing is wrong with the physics and invents an entirely new form of matter out of whole cloth that is unobservable and doesn’t do anything but conveniently provide all of the missing gravitational force they need.

Or perhaps even better. How did science decide that Pluto is not a planet? They got some people in a room and they voted on it - majority rules. Same thing happens in theology. And, like theology, you’ll encounter people who disagree with the majority vote.

 

[Daisy]

Does god have the ability to be omniscient even if he doesn't use it? If he uses it even once, he is by definition omniscient and knows literally Everything. Some seem to argue God lacks that ability to begin with.

God is not limited to man's definitions, either...He can do as He pleases...

"Our God is in the heavens;
He does whatever he pleases." Psalm 115:3

"Jehovah does everything he pleases to do
In heaven and on earth, in the seas and all the depths." Psalm 135:6

"he can do whatever he pleases," Ecclesiastes 8:3

"From the beginning I foretell the outcome,
And from long ago the things that have not yet been done.
I say, ‘My decision will stand,
And I will do whatever I please.’" Isaiah 46:10

 

[Gordy327]

Dark matter is a perfect example. One camp says that when your observations contradict your physics then something is wrong with your physics. The other camp says nothing is wrong with the physics and invents an entirely new form of matter out of whole cloth that is unobservable and doesn’t do anything but conveniently provide all of the missing gravitational force they need.

Or perhaps even better. How did science decide that Pluto is not a planet? They got some people in a room and they voted on it - majority rules. Same thing happens in theology. And, like theology, you’ll encounter people who disagree with the majority vote.

Dark matter is a hypothetical concept to account for the composition of the universe which is unable to be observed or mathematically accounted for. Most scientists accept the concept, but do not pass it off as fact like normal matter. At least, not until objective evidence/proof of DM is discovered. Religion, on the other hand, would simply declare something along the lines of "god" and leave it at that, as if it were fact or truth, which is intellectually lazy and dishonest.

 

[Gordy327]

God is not limited to man's definitions, either...He can do as He pleases...

"Our God is in the heavens;
He does whatever he pleases." Psalm 115:3

"Jehovah does everything he pleases to do
In heaven and on earth, in the seas and all the depths." Psalm 135:6

"he can do whatever he pleases," Ecclesiastes 8:3

"From the beginning I foretell the outcome,
And from long ago the things that have not yet been done.
I say, ‘My decision will stand,
And I will do whatever I please.’" Isaiah 46:10

Irrelevant. Does God have the omniscience ability or not.

 

[Napoleon]

Dark matter is a hypothetical concept to account for the composition of the universe which is unable to be observed or mathematically accounted for. Most scientists accept the concept, but do not pass it off as fact like normal matter. At least, not until objective evidence/proof of DM is discovered. Religion, on the other hand, would simply declare something along the lines of "god" and leave it at that, as if it were fact or truth, which is intellectually lazy and dishonest.

That’s not what happens in religion. Robust theological debate happens in religion.

 

[Daisy]

Irrelevant. Does God have the omniscience ability or not.

Wrong...God has the ability to know what He needs to know to fulfill His will...

"From the beginning I foretell the outcome,
And from long ago the things that have not yet been done.
I say, ‘My decision will stand,
And I will do whatever I please.’" Isaiah 46:10

 

[Gordy327]

Wrong...God has the ability to know what He needs to know to fulfill His will...

"From the beginning I foretell the outcome,
And from long ago the things that have not yet been done.
I say, ‘My decision will stand,
And I will do whatever I please.’" Isaiah 46:10

Does God have the omniscience ability? Yes or no?

 

[Gordy327]

That’s not what happens in religion. Robust theological debate happens in religion.

Yeah, religion argues over whose god/beliefs is correct. All talk, no evidence/proof.

 

[Napoleon]

Yeah, religion argues over whose god/beliefs is correct. All talk, no evidence/proof.

Religion and philosophy are for answers that science can never provide. Like why we shouldn’t behave like the animals we are, why we should have things like moral values, manners, and civilizations, what those things should look like, etc. And science is a big fat who cares without any of that.

 

[Gordy327]

Religion and philosophy are for answers that science can never provide. Like why we shouldn’t behave like the animals we are, why we should have things like moral values, manners, and civilizations, what those things should look like, etc.

Making up answers is not the same as having actual answers.

 

[Napoleon]

Making up answers is not the same as having actual answers.

Questions that don’t have “actual” answers need answers nonetheless. Not even science professes to have “actual” answers. Only arrogant scientists.

 

[Daisy]

Does God have the omniscience ability? Yes or no?

Yes, to exercise it any way He so chooses...

 

[Overitall]

It doesn't matter to me. I'm simply pointing out the theistic inconsistencies among theists, especially when they claim "truth."

It doesn't bother me. I don't know why it bothers you.

 

[Gordy327]

It doesn't bother me. I don't know why it bothers you.

I already said it doesn't bother me.

 

[BabyAugustine]

The Legalists on here are such a huge stunning scarey crowd

What about the category that the debate was carried on for CENTURIES fittingness

I am of the opinion that God wished to redeem us in this fashion (Incarnation) principally in order to draw us to His love.​

- Blessed John Duns Scotus​ Patron of scholars, students, theologians, and philosopher​

 

[BabyAugustine]

I already said it doesn't bother me.

But that is why a spectator to all this is bothered, the sheer inhuman coldness of it

So consider (just 'consider' don't argue) what Pope Benedict quoted in an audience about JOhn Duns Scotus

Just full of heart and mind on the subject

the Son of God would have been made man even if humanity had not sinned. He says in his "Reportatio Parisiensis": "To think that God would have given up such a task had Adam not sinned would be quite unreasonable! I say, therefore, that the fall was not the cause of Christ's predestination and that if no one had fallen, neither the angel nor man in this hypothesis Christ would still have been predestined in the same way" (in III Sent., d. 7, 4). This perhaps somewhat surprising thought crystallized because, in the opinion of Duns Scotus the Incarnation of the Son of God, planned from all eternity by God the Father at the level of love is the fulfilment of creation and enables every creature, in Christ and through Christ, to be filled with grace and to praise and glorify God in eternity. Although Duns Scotus was aware that in fact, because of original sin, Christ redeemed us with his Passion, Death and Resurrection, he reaffirmed that the Incarnation is the greatest and most beautiful work of the entire history of salvation, that it is not conditioned by any contingent fact but is God's original idea of ultimately uniting with himself the whole of creation, in the Person and Flesh of the Son.

 

[Rumpel]

Jesus was not really Gods son; he was god in the flesh. SO it's worse than what you were saying. God pretended to be Jesus and pretended to die. Of course that entire "why have you forsaken me" crap is a plot hole then. But yea Jesus was just gods avatar. YOLO!

pretended?

 

[Manc Skipper]

pretended?

Gods can't die. He faked it.