[W: #1063] 2024 Presidential Election night discussion

[ModernDiogenes]

Biden was like five of those bad choices. Wages went up in spite of him, energy production went up in spite of him, Europe went to war in Ukraine, inflation hit the worst in 5 decades, the middle east is in absolute turmoil, China sees us as an endless ATM, immigration is out of control. Oh, wait, I only needed 5...

First off, I can punch holes in much of that. It didn’t matter though because you’re just not getting it. None of the “whatabout” Trump supporters are.

There is NOTHING in the order of regular political bad things that counters the bad Trump gas done. Differences in policy doings does NOT equate to:

Massive fraud stealing millions from thousands.

Stealing through charity.

Creating a fraudulent university.

Sexually predatory behavior.

Massive real estate fraud.

Bank fraud.

Insurance fraud.

Trump is a BAD person. Not an ordinary politician with ordinary political folderol. The bad things he’s done are far worse than the bad things DC pols do.

Anyone with any common sense and old school right and wrong knowing knows that.

Trump is wrong. Just plain wrong.

 

[OpportunityCost]

First off, I can punch holes in much of that. It didn’t matter though because you’re just not getting it. None of the “whatabout” Trump supporters are.

There is NOTHING in the order of regular political bad things that counters the bad Trump gas done. Differences in policy doings does NOT equate to:

Massive fraud stealing millions from thousands.

Stealing through charity.

Creating a fraudulent university.

Sexually predatory behavior.

Massive real estate fraud.

Bank fraud.

Insurance fraud.

Trump is a BAD person. Not an ordinary politician with ordinary political folderol. The bad things he’s done are far worse than the bad things DC pols do.

Anyone with any common sense and old school right and wrong knowing knows that.

Trump is wrong. Just plain wrong.

Nah, Obama and Biden seeking to wreck his campaign and Presidency over things they knew were false is far worse. Fauci lying about Covid measures he knew wouldn't work and then leaving Trump holding the consequences is far worse. Hillary playing the Russia card on Trump and Gabbard knowing its nonsense is far worse.

Before you call it what about, I am giving you direct demonstrations of things done TO Trump by these so-called better people.

I think your judgment is askew.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Nah, Obama and Biden seeking to wreck his campaign and Presidency over things they knew were false is far worse. Fauci lying about Covid measures he knew wouldn't work and then leaving Trump holding the consequences is far worse. Hillary playing the Russia card on Trump and Gabbard knowing its nonsense is far worse.

Before you call it what about, I am giving you direct demonstrations of things done TO Trump by these so-called better people.

I think your judgment is askew.

I am sorry but I find that a failure in your perceptions on ethics. A symptom of our devolving culture and society. Thirty years ago a person of Trumps ethical and character flaws and bad acts couldn't have set foot on a major party primary debate stage. He would have been jeered off. Today it mounts it beaming like his bad acts are nothing that requires even a second look. Its pitiful.

 

[OpportunityCost]

I am sorry but I find that a failure in your perceptions on ethics. A symptom of our devolving culture and society. Thirty years ago a person of Trumps ethical and character flaws and bad acts couldn't have set foot on a major party primary debate stage. He would have been jeered off. Today it mounts it beaming like his bad acts are nothing that requires even a second look. Its pitiful.

I am sorry but I find that you apply ethics politically.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I am sorry but I find that you apply ethics politically.

One who is an ethical person applies ethics everywhere, because right and wrong choices exist everywhere.

One lives a life making choices that affect throughout it, in all aspects of it. Your personal ethics is your mindset on right vs wrong and plays a part in every decision you make of that sort. That would include political decisions.

Way too many people think as you have expressed above.

That you can’t conceive that your personal ethics is ubiquitous within the expression of all your thoughts and deeds, or appear unaware of that, is symptomatic of your problem and your problem is symptomatic of a nation in decline.

 

[Desert Storm]

This is very disturbing

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politic...form-predicts-trump-win-political-retribution

 

[Doug64]

I am sorry but I find that a failure in your perceptions on ethics. A symptom of our devolving culture and society. Thirty years ago a person of Trumps ethical and character flaws and bad acts couldn't have set foot on a major party primary debate stage. He would have been jeered off. Today it mounts it beaming like his bad acts are nothing that requires even a second look. Its pitiful.

"Ten percent for the big guy."

"It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

 

[ModernDiogenes]

"Ten percent for the big guy."

Bogus.

"It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

I had serious, candid, negative things to say about that as well.

My ethical compass points to true north. Does yours? (I’m not implying it doesn’t. That’s a question you need to be alright with. It if points anywhere else you have questions you haven’t asked yourself OR you don’t care, which is a different problem).

 

[OpportunityCost]

One who is an ethical person applies ethics everywhere, because right and wrong choices exist everywhere.

One lives a life making choices that affect throughout it, in all aspects of it. Your personal ethics is your mindset on right vs wrong and plays a part in every decision you make of that sort. That would include political decisions.

Way too many people think as you have expressed above.

That you can’t conceive that your personal ethics is ubiquitous within the expression of all your thoughts and deeds, or appear unaware of that, is symptomatic of your problem and your problem is symptomatic of a nation in decline.

You can't conceive that some one's personal ethics and your pontification on them are off limits. Attacks posts, not posters.

Sick of you deriding the decisions of others through a lens that judges them as people, stick to the data.

 

[Doug64]

Bogus.

If you squeeze your eyes shut, stick your fingers in your ears, and sing at the top of your lungs, I suppose you could say that. Then, of course, there’s Tara Reade, who (unlike Kavanaugh’s accuser) actually spoke to people about her assault around the time that it happened—who was, of course, memory-holed by the same MSM(D) that had enthusiastically gone after Kavanaugh.

I had serious, candid, negative things to say about that as well.

My ethical compass points to true north. Does yours? (I’m not implying it doesn’t. That’s a question you need to be alright with. It if points anywhere else you have questions you haven’t asked yourself OR you don’t care, which is a different problem).

Sure, three times now I’ve declined to vote for Trump because he’s a thug. My brother declined the first two times but voted for him this time, arguing that he was voting for the Trump administration rather than the man himself. So now Democrats are shocked—shocked!—that a lot of Republicans are, like my brother, acting like Democrats have for quite awhile.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

You can't conceive that some one's personal ethics and your pontification on them are off limits. Attacks posts, not posters.

It is an honest and honorable question. One can tell me to take a hike, at least that is honest. You can't do that though without a bit of our slip showing in the process.

Sick of you deriding the decisions of others through a lens that judges them as people, stick to the data.

I am sticking to the data. You are ignoring it. Trump is documented as to cheating his brother our of his share of his father's inheritance. The source is his neice and nephew, his brother's children. He is documented as to having raped his first wife. The sourch is the first wife, Ivana, in her court testimony in their divorce and her book. He is documented as to using a charity to defraud and to steal. The source is the NYS court case that closed the Trump foundation down. He is documented as to running a fraudulent university. The source is the court case that shut that down. He is documented as to having commited so much real estate fraud he was penalized over $400M and barred from business in NYS for three years.

I could go on, because there is more and it is all DOCUMENTED. It is the FACTS.

Now answer the questions please. How can you deny what is clearly documented as fact? If you claim this clearly documented facts are wrong, make your case as to why, If you can't, or admit that it is fact, than stipulate as to how in good conscience you could do so, and why if you did we shouldn't judge your character and ethics on it?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Sure, three times now I’ve declined to vote for Trump because he’s a thug. My brother declined the first two times but voted for him this time, arguing that he was voting for the Trump administration rather than the man himself. So now Democrats are shocked—shocked!—that a lot of Republicans are, like my brother, acting like Democrats have for quite awhile.

I comment you for keeping to good conscious. Your brother slipped up. IF the guy at the head of the administration is a crook, it is a crooked administration. That is kind of obvious. So your brothers thinking on that was wrong. He should have did what you did.

I do not answer for Democrats. I am not one. I answer for myself and ask the questions for myself but also because I think folks like me are wanting of the answers from Trump supporters so we can stop scratching our head trying to figure out how why the culture is devolving.

 

[Desert Storm]

 

[Desert Storm]

 

[OpportunityCost]

It is an honest and honorable question. One can tell me to take a hike, at least that is honest. You can't do that though without a bit of our slip showing in the process.



I am sticking to the data. You are ignoring it. Trump is documented as to cheating his brother our of his share of his father's inheritance. The source is his neice and nephew, his brother's children. He is documented as to having raped his first wife. The sourch is the first wife, Ivana, in her court testimony in their divorce and her book. He is documented as to using a charity to defraud and to steal. The source is the NYS court case that closed the Trump foundation down. He is documented as to running a fraudulent university. The source is the court case that shut that down. He is documented as to having commited so much real estate fraud he was penalized over $400M and barred from business in NYS for three years.

I could go on, because there is more and it is all DOCUMENTED. It is the FACTS.

Now answer the questions please. How can you deny what is clearly documented as fact? If you claim this clearly documented facts are wrong, make your case as to why, If you can't, or admit that it is fact, than stipulate as to how in good conscience you could do so, and why if you did we shouldn't judge your character and ethics on it?

Because policy counts. Dem policy is done, they overreached and tried to force their vision of social justice on us and got rebuked. Someone can be personally terrible but not use policy to punish and override the personal beliefs of others. Biden did that, Obama did that, Kamala would have surely done that. Then they lie about it on the campaign trail vowing to act differently than our observations of them have shown who they are.

Trump, no doubt, has loads of personal baggage but the failures of Biden and Kamala are on display for affecting the lives of Americans. That makes them worse despite their intentions, because they show no evidence of giving a damn, except when its election time.

You want to judge my ethics and personality on it because you refuse to see both sides of the argument. I am arguing my life, and the life of millions of Americans counts more to how they vote than Donald Trump's personal ethics, which are pretty awful. Your preachy Karen "how could you" moment here doesn't negate the failure of the last administration to do good things for the American people and to cook the books and metrics whenever they could. Trump will not have that option and never has, when it comes to policy and his administration it has long been an open book. Liberals like you save introspection and investigation for political opponents, not themselves or their allies.

 

[trixare4kids]

President elect Trump has chosen ND Doug Burgum as his Dept. of the Interior Secretary.

When announcing, "We're going to reduce regulation waste, fraud and inefficiency," Trump said. "We're going to clean out the corrupt, broken and failing bureaucracies."
Burgum made energy and natural resources a key part of his campaign for the GOP nomination."

MSN

 

[Desert Storm]

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Because policy counts. Dem policy is done, they overreached and tried to force their vision of social justice on us and got rebuked. Someone can be personally terrible but not use policy to punish and override the personal beliefs of others. Biden did that, Obama did that, Kamala would have surely done that. Then they lie about it on the campaign trail vowing to act differently than our observations of them have shown who they are.

Trump, no doubt, has loads of personal baggage but the failures of Biden and Kamala are on display for affecting the lives of Americans. That makes them worse despite their intentions, because they show no evidence of giving a damn, except when its election time.

You want to judge my ethics and personality on it because you refuse to see both sides of the argument. I am arguing my life, and the life of millions of Americans counts more to how they vote than Donald Trump's personal ethics, which are pretty awful. Your preachy Karen "how could you" moment here doesn't negate the failure of the last administration to do good things for the American people and to cook the books and metrics whenever they could. Trump will not have that option and never has, when it comes to policy and his administration it has long been an open book. Liberals like you save introspection and investigation for political opponents, not themselves or their allies.

I see the side of the argument you are making and I have tried to explain why that is not a valid reason to place the common sense notions based in foundational core considerations that our system was built upon.

So we leave it at this and come back to it when Trump has done the bad things he will do, because he is a bad person. When you are negatively impacted by these things we will discuss then again and I trust you will better understand what I was driving at here.

 

[beefheart]

Your college polysci class? Thanks for clarifying. You'd be kindly escorted off my Ivy League campus I attended decades ago. What are you, like 18?

You've flagged yourself as a greenhorn. Have a nice day.

Hi TurtleDude.

 

[OpportunityCost]

I see the side of the argument you are making and I have tried to explain why that is not a valid reason to place the common sense notions based in foundational core considerations that our system was built upon.

So we leave it at this and come back to it when Trump has done the bad things he will do, because he is a bad person. When you are negatively impacted by these things we will discuss then again and I trust you will better understand what I was driving at here.

What do you think about Obama using the power of the Presidency to derail Trumps time in office and his campaign? Do you think that was ethical or moral?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

What do you think about Obama using the power of the Presidency to derail Trumps time in office and his campaign? Do you think that was ethical or moral?

You see, you say things like that and it’s evidence you’re parroting talking points founded in dopey conspiracy nonsense. Obama wasn’t President when Trump was in office so his could he use “the power of the Presidency”, an office he was no longer in, while Trump was in office to derail anyone, let alone Trump? Trump was President during the campaign where he lost, against Biden, in 2020.

 

[OpportunityCost]

You see, you say things like that and it’s evidence you’re parroting talking points founded in dopey conspiracy nonsense. Obama wasn’t President when Trump was in office so his could he use “the power of the Presidency”, an office he was no longer in, while Trump was in office to derail anyone, let alone Trump? Trump was President during the campaign where he lost, against Biden, in 2020.

There we go, you aren't as moral or ethical as you portray. Carry on.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

There we go, you aren't as moral or ethical as you portray. Carry on.

What are the hell are you going on about.

My pointing out that your claims are predicated on a set of conditions that didn’t exist isn’t an ethics based concern, it’s fact based, so attempting to make an ethics based response is a bad dodge.

In fact it sounds a tad goofy.

 

[OpportunityCost]

What are the hell are you going on about.

My pointing out that your claims are predicated on a set of conditions that didn’t exist isn’t an ethics based concern, it’s fact based, so attempting to make an ethics based response is a bad dodge.

In fact it sounds a tad goofy.

I am referring to the 2016 election and Obama in office beforehand. The ethics part is you denying it without examination or even knowing the time frame I was referring to. Curious how quick you were to shoot it down without examination.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

I am referring to the 2016 election and Obama in office beforehand. The ethics part is you denying it without examination or even knowing the time frame I was referring to. Curious how quick you were to shoot it down without examination.

Fine, than make your case. It’s not true just because you say so.