Voting For Third-Party Candidates - POTUS

[jamesrage]

Virtually no one knows they exist.
They aren't doing any serious advertising.
They won't be allowed in the Presidential debates.
I could get behind Gary Johnson, perhaps some of the others.

There's no point in doing so, for those reasons.

Most of that is due to the media catering the two party duopoly. The media does not give these guys the time of day and weasels them out the debates. They don't go on Saturday night live or some other comedy show, they don't get to go on the late night talk shows, the cable tv talk shows or even the radio talk shows. Which means most people do not know they are and therefore do not donate money to these candidates

 

[Moderate Right]

Most of that is due to the media catering the two party duopoly. The media does not give these guys the time of day and weasels them out the debates. They don't go on Saturday night live or some other comedy show, they don't get to go on the late night talk shows, the cable tv talk shows or even the radio talk shows. Which means most people do not know they are and therefore do not donate money to these candidates

No matter how you look at it, it is almost impossible for a third party to ever win the presidency with 270 electoral votes needed for the win. If no one reaches that level then the House gets to decide who is president and the House is made up of mostly all Republicans and Democrats so a third party would have no chance. The only way to solve the problem is to change the 270 figure required to win in some way but our founding fathers didn't want a bunch of candidates running so probably the best solution is to make it whoever scores the highest over 180. Then a third party would at least have a chance but I don't see either Democrats or Republicans trying to change this requirement.

 

[jamesrage]

No matter how you look at it, it is almost impossible for a third party to ever win the presidency with 270 electoral votes needed for the win. If no one reaches that level then the House gets to decide who is president and the House is made up of mostly all Republicans and Democrats so a third party would have no chance. The only way to solve the problem is to change the 270 figure required to win in some way but our founding fathers didn't want a bunch of candidates running so probably the best solution is to make it whoever scores the highest over 180. Then a third party would at least have a chance but I don't see either Democrats or Republicans trying to change this requirement.

As long as the media is allowed to manipulate the elections I don't think changing the electoral votes needed will have any effect. Because they will still give the third party candidates the silent treatment.

 

[iguanaman]

You left out... No, because if no candidate gets over 50% of the electoral votes the House of Representatives gets to pick whomever they want as President.
This makes a 3rd party candidate unworkable under the current system. We don't want a President that nobody voted for do we? Change the system to win with a simple majority of votes and I might change my mind.

 

[Moderate Right]

As long as the media is allowed to manipulate the elections I don't think changing the electoral votes needed will have any effect. Because they will still give the third party candidates the silent treatment.

To some extent but I don't know how much influence that will have. Both the media and the Republican establishment have been giving Trump almost nonstop negative publicity and it has only helped Trump in the polls. People are so sick of both the Democratic and Republican establishments that a third party could have a chance if they didn't have to reach 270 electoral votes. Many people (probably including myself) will almost never vote for a third party candidate because we know they currently have no chance so we vote for the lesser of the two evils instead. Anyway, it is nothing but wishful thinking as the establishment on both sides would never consider changing the electoral requirement to give a third party a chance.

 

[Caine]

To some extent but I don't know how much influence that will have. Both the media and the Republican establishment have been giving Trump almost nonstop negative publicity and it has only helped Trump in the polls. People are so sick of both the Democratic and Republican establishments that a third party could have a chance if they didn't have to reach 270 electoral votes. Many people (probably including myself) will almost never vote for a third party candidate because we know they currently have no chance so we vote for the lesser of the two evils instead. Anyway, it is nothing but wishful thinking as the establishment on both sides would never consider changing the electoral requirement to give a third party a chance.

Quick question....

Do you change who your favorite sports team is when your team starts to struggle due to a lack of fresh talent???

Because that is basically what you just described doing as a voter. You vote for someone you think is going to win.... not who you want to win.

I imagine you are a Yankees baseball fan.
Alabama College football fan?
Probably a Denver Broncos fan?

Am I getting any of these?

 

[Moderate Right]

Quick question....

Do you change who your favorite sports team is when your team starts to struggle due to a lack of fresh talent???

Because that is basically what you just described doing as a voter. You vote for someone you think is going to win.... not who you want to win.

I imagine you are a Yankees baseball fan.
Alabama College football fan?
Probably a Denver Broncos fan?

Am I getting any of these?

Sometimes the teams change but this is not sports. I started out as a Democrat when I was young, poor, uniformed, and full of emotion. I changed teams when I moved up in the world and realized that if I can move up in the world with my own hard work, then others can too, instead of sitting back and sponging off of others or waiting for the minimum wage to go up. I felt really satisfied under Reagan and shortly afterwards but the Republicans have moved too far right for me and I am now classified as a RINO. I think the far right misclassifies us as traitors to the cause but I like to think that I am a realist and that it is better to take baby steps in the direction I want to go instead of fighting for it all and losing, as the far right has done and is doing now. Some of the far right haven't made it into the 21st century yet. I like to think of myself as kind of a conservative middle of the road Independent. I have voted for all kinds of parties and have no idea who I am voting for this coming up election but voting for either Bernie or Hillary really is a very bitter pill to swallow. Can't see myself doing that. By the way, I live in Kentucky so no Alabama, Yankees, or Broncos.

 

[jamesrage]

To some extent but I don't know how much influence that will have. Both the media and the Republican establishment have been giving Trump almost nonstop negative publicity and it has only helped Trump in the polls.

Negative publicity is almost just as helpful as positive publicity. Because when the anti-Americans in the media and RINO establishment and others who kiss the asses of the illegal alien lobby criticized Trump over his statements regarding illegals and tried to make it seem as though he was talking about all Mexicans. They ended up actually painting Trump as something he is not. Which a strong opponent of illegal immigration and it exposed those critics as dishonest ****s. Anyone with a brain in their head could see that Trump wasn't talking about all Mexicans. When the people you dislike are demonizing someone it can motivate you to support that person that is being demonized by the people you dislike. If the media really opposed Trump getting the republican nomination then they would simply ignore him.They wouldn't have him come on Saturday night live,late night talk shows, cable talk shows and talk radio. Trump would actually have to spend a whole lot more of his money to get noticed.

People are so sick of both the Democratic and Republican establishments that a third party could have a chance if they didn't have to reach 270 electoral votes.

If the media ignores you, then it doesn't matter how low that number is.Most voters simply will not know you exist or what you stand for.

Many people (probably including myself) will almost never vote for a third party candidate because we know they currently have no chance so we vote for the lesser of the two evils instead. Anyway, it is nothing but wishful thinking as the establishment on both sides would never consider changing the electoral requirement to give a third party a chance.

It is because of that thinking why it is part of the reason third party candidates don't have a chance and why we have the Mitch McConnells, John Boehners, Lindsey Grahams and other RINOs who sell out. Baby steps don't do any good if the people you are voting for is helping the other side take large steps towards their goals.

 

[Moderate Right]

Negative publicity is almost just as helpful as positive publicity. Because when the anti-Americans in the media and RINO establishment and others who kiss the asses of the illegal alien lobby criticized Trump over his statements regarding illegals and tried to make it seem as though he was talking about all Mexicans. They ended up actually painting Trump as something he is not. Which a strong opponent of illegal immigration and it exposed those critics as dishonest ****s. Anyone with a brain in their head could see that Trump wasn't talking about all Mexicans. When the people you dislike are demonizing someone it can motivate you to support that person that is being demonized by the people you dislike. If the media really opposed Trump getting the republican nomination then they would simply ignore him.They wouldn't have him come on Saturday night live,late night talk shows, cable talk shows and talk radio. Trump would actually have to spend a whole lot more of his money to get noticed.



If the media ignores you, then it doesn't matter how low that number is.Most voters simply will not know you exist or what you stand for.


It is because of that thinking why it is part of the reason third party candidates don't have a chance and why we have the Mitch McConnells, John Boehners, Lindsey Grahams and other RINOs who sell out. Baby steps don't do any good if the people you are voting for is helping the other side take large steps towards their goals.

The ones who are letting the left take large steps toward their goals are you guys, helping Obama get elected twice and handing this next election to the Democrats as well. How can you not see that your tactics are actually working backwards? You would rather lose the election with Trump or Cruz than win with Kasich, setting up a bunch of lifetime Supreme Court nominees who will keep the Court to the left for a long time to come. Kasich wouldn't do that but your tactics are going to assure it.

 

[Caine]

The ones who are letting the left take large steps toward their goals are you guys, helping Obama get elected twice and handing this next election to the Democrats as well. How can you not see that your tactics are actually working backwards? You would rather lose the election with Trump or Cruz than win with Kasich, setting up a bunch of lifetime Supreme Court nominees who will keep the Court to the left for a long time to come. Kasich wouldn't do that but your tactics are going to assure it.

That ideology only works if one thinks that people who vote 3rd party "would have voted" for the eventual loser.

People who vote 3rd party could be more moderate left leaning, or moderate right leaning. People who view certain issues and side with one side, and other issues with the other.

By saying YOU ARE HELPING OH-BAH-MAH WIN by voting 3rd party, you are assuming that the person should have voted for the Republican.

 

[Cephus]

To some extent but I don't know how much influence that will have. Both the media and the Republican establishment have been giving Trump almost nonstop negative publicity and it has only helped Trump in the polls. People are so sick of both the Democratic and Republican establishments that a third party could have a chance if they didn't have to reach 270 electoral votes. Many people (probably including myself) will almost never vote for a third party candidate because we know they currently have no chance so we vote for the lesser of the two evils instead. Anyway, it is nothing but wishful thinking as the establishment on both sides would never consider changing the electoral requirement to give a third party a chance.

I don't think a third party would have a chance at all because they simply lack the funding to get out there and get their message known. The only two people who ever done it, Perot and possibly Trump, are rich enough that they can largely fund their own campaign without the backing of a major party. No Libertarian candidate has ever stepped forward and done that, no Green Party candidate, no Constitution Party candidate, no Communist, no nobody. Until very wealthy and very influential people are actually part of these minor parties and are actually willing to risk their fortunes on a shot at the White House, these parties are going nowhere.

 

[Moderate Right]

That ideology only works if one thinks that people who vote 3rd party "would have voted" for the eventual loser.

People who vote 3rd party could be more moderate left leaning, or moderate right leaning. People who view certain issues and side with one side, and other issues with the other.

By saying YOU ARE HELPING OH-BAH-MAH WIN by voting 3rd party, you are assuming that the person should have voted for the Republican.

I'm not even talking about a third party. The far righties take pride in the fact that both McCain and Romney did not win because the base did not show up to vote. In other words, the base is responsible for eight years of Obama policies and it's not looking good for the next election either. The base would rather have Clinton's policies by nominating either Trump or Cruz, both sure to lose to Clinton. In other words again, the base would rather have Clinton as president than Kasich. They are delusional if they think either Trump or Cruz could beat Hillary.

 

[jamesrage]

The ones who are letting the left take large steps toward their goals are you guys, helping Obama get elected twice and handing this next election to the Democrats as well. How can you not see that your tactics are actually working backwards? You would rather lose the election with Trump or Cruz than win with Kasich, setting up a bunch of lifetime Supreme Court nominees who will keep the Court to the left for a long time to come. Kasich wouldn't do that but your tactics are going to assure it.

By voting for the lesser of two evils you are only rewarding the republicans for moving further left. Kasich is a RINO. So yes he would help the left take huge steps. His supreme court picks will be RINOs who side with illegals, Obama-care and many other left leaning issues.

 

[jamesrage]

I'm not even talking about a third party. The far righties take pride in the fact that both McCain and Romney did not win because the base did not show up to vote. In other words, the base is responsible for eight years of Obama policies and it's not looking good for the next election either. The base would rather have Clinton's policies by nominating either Trump or Cruz, both sure to lose to Clinton. In other words again, the base would rather have Clinton as president than Kasich. They are delusional if they think either Trump or Cruz could beat Hillary.

The RINOS propping up McCain and Romney is basically a huge middle finger to the base. That is why the base didn't vote for those guys. Turmp is Mitt Romney 2.0. It makes no sense for someone who is against socialize medicine to vote for the guy who came out with the predecessor to Obama-care. It makes no sense for someone who is pro-2nd amendment to vote for a guy enacted the first assault weapons ban at the state level and other ant-2nd amendment laws that Obama has wet dreams about passing. It makes no sense for someone who believes only in natural climate change and or thinks man made global warming fairy tale is a scam to vote for a guy who supports cap and trade. It makes no sense for someone who is against illegal immigration to vote for someone who is for amnesty.

I would rather lose with the guy who I want in office than win with a guy I don't want in office.

 

[Moderate Right]

By voting for the lesser of two evils you are only rewarding the republicans for moving further left. Kasich is a RINO. So yes he would help the left take huge steps. His supreme court picks will be RINOs who side with illegals, Obama-care and many other left leaning issues.

Boy are you thick. So, you would rather have Hillary in charge than Kasich? Because it ain't gonna be Trump or Cruz. You would rather have Hillary appoint several life time lefty judges to the Supreme Court. Don't you see that if Hillary only gets to serve for four years, followed by years and years of true conservatives, the Court will still be tilted left, for decades to come, no matter how many true conservatives become president? Is that really what you want?

 

[Moderate Right]

The RINOS propping up McCain and Romney is basically a huge middle finger to the base. That is why the base didn't vote for those guys. Turmp is Mitt Romney 2.0. It makes no sense for someone who is against socialize medicine to vote for the guy who came out with the predecessor to Obama-care. It makes no sense for someone who is pro-2nd amendment to vote for a guy enacted the first assault weapons ban at the state level and other ant-2nd amendment laws that Obama has wet dreams about passing. It makes no sense for someone who believes only in natural climate change and or thinks man made global warming fairy tale is a scam to vote for a guy who supports cap and trade. It makes no sense for someone who is against illegal immigration to vote for someone who is for amnesty.

I would rather lose with the guy who I want in office than win with a guy I don't want in office.

But if you lose, your guy will NOT be in office, Hillary will. So, you are saying that you would rather have Hillary than Kasich. You blamed the last two election losses, McCain and Romney, for being RINO's and that's why they lost. What is your train of thought going to be if Cruz wins the nomination and loses to Hillary (a lying, dishonest, crook) in the general? Will that be the end of the world as you know it? What would be your strategy after that? Would you consider Cruz to not be conservative enough?

 

[jamesrage]

Boy are you thick. So, you would rather have Hillary in charge than Kasich?

You are basically saying "do you want liberal or liberal lite?".

Because it ain't gonna be Trump or Cruz. You would rather have Hillary appoint several life time lefty judges to the Supreme Court. Don't you see that if Hillary only gets to serve for four years, followed by years and years of true conservatives, the Court will still be tilted left, for decades to come, no matter how many true conservatives become president? Is that really what you want?

I would rather Cruz appoint those several life time judges.I could care less that the media is saying Cruz can't.If

But if you lose, your guy will NOT be in office, Hillary will. So, you are saying that you would rather have Hillary than Kasich.

I dislike both Kasich and Clinton. So I am saying I would have Cruz in office.

You blamed the last two election losses, McCain and Romney, for being RINO's and that's why they lost. What is your train of thought going to be if Cruz wins the nomination and loses to Hillary (a lying, dishonest, crook) in the general? Will that be the end of the world as you know it? What would be your strategy after that? Would you consider Cruz to not be conservative enough?

I am not voting a for the RINO Kasich or the RINO Trump. I am not going to vote for a candidate I despise instead of the candidate I want just because someone who I find sightly more despicable might win. Nor am I going to reward the republicans for propping up a piece of **** RINO.


Many people make fun of Trump tards for supporting a candidate that has basically been for many issues they oppose. But republican party-tards are no different. They would rather say **** their values and vote for the most liberal republican possible because the media told them that the guy they wanted to pick will lose. It how someone like Mitt Romney which should have been a no brainer for repubicans to oppose for since Romney stood for many of the issues they oppose.

 

[Moderate Right]

You are basically saying "do you want liberal or liberal lite?".


I would rather Cruz appoint those several life time judges.I could care less that the media is saying Cruz can't.If




I dislike both Kasich and Clinton. So I am saying I would have Cruz in office.


I am not voting a for the RINO Kasich or the RINO Trump. I am not going to vote for a candidate I despise instead of the candidate I want just because someone who I find sightly more despicable might win. Nor am I going to reward the republicans for propping up a piece of **** RINO.


Many people make fun of Trump tards for supporting a candidate that has basically been for many issues they oppose. But republican party-tards are no different. They would rather say **** their values and vote for the most liberal republican possible because the media told them that the guy they wanted to pick will lose. It how someone like Mitt Romney which should have been a no brainer for repubicans to oppose for since Romney stood for many of the issues they oppose.

You can't seriously believe that Kasich is a liberal and would be almost one in the same with Clinton. You don't give the RINO's any credit at all. They are conservative but they are smart enough to realize that with a divided government you can get more of what you want by comprising and wait for another day when they have more control to push the more conservative agenda. You far righties just can't see that when you you play hardball now and lose, you don't get anything at all and another day will never come because the Independents will help vote the wrong side in. By not ticking off the Independent electorate the Republicans can have the House, Senate, and the presidency and then go after their conservative agenda. What has happened is the far righties have elected Obama to eight years, Clinton is going to be elected this time around, the Senate will fall to the Democrats, and the Supreme Court will have several lifetime appointments, setting the conservative agenda back for decades. You never did answer my question as to what happens if Cruz is the nominee and loses to Clinton. What happens then? Would you then want to vote for someone more conservative than Cruz next time around? Would Cruz then be considered a RINO?

 

[SDET]

Nobody likes the candidates. Almost all tend to vote for the lessor of two evils.
So many refuse to vote for anything but a Dem or Rep for a variety of reasons.
I call that insanity, but so be it.

So with the coming election this fall, will you vote for a third-party candidate?

If not, why not? Especially if you feel the Rep and Dem candidates are the worst we've ever seen?

I wonder what percentage of DPers would go alternative. :mrgreen:

What's this "nobody likes the candidates" business? Ted Cruz suits me just fine. If he's not the nominee, I would probably vote third party. If Texas is a contested state in November with T-Rump on the ticket, the election is essentially over anyway.

 

[jamesrage]

You can't seriously believe that Kasich is a liberal and would be almost one in the same with Clinton. You don't give the RINO's any credit at all. They are conservative but they are smart enough to realize that with a divided government you can get more of what you want by comprising and wait for another day when they have more control to push the more conservative agenda.You far righties just can't see that when you you play hardball now and lose, you don't get anything at all and another day will never come because the Independents will help vote the wrong side in. By not ticking off the Independent electorate the Republicans can have the House, Senate, and the presidency and then go after their conservative agenda. What has happened is the far righties have elected Obama to eight years, Clinton is going to be elected this time around, the Senate will fall to the Democrats, and the Supreme Court will have several lifetime appointments, setting the conservative agenda back for decades.

A compromise implies that both sides give up something in order to get something in return. A compromise is only good if both sides uphold their end of the compromise, which is immigration reform is seen as nothing more than code for amnesty with hollow promises of enforcement. Compromises are not always good because they help the other side gain a foot or sometimes a mile.

Not every independent is a liberal,so this idea that republicans have to be liberal to get their vote is absurd.

RINOS don't give two ****s about conservatism. Its only something they give lip service to in order to get votes. Its why Obama-care is still being funded and Obama's executive amnesties are still being funded.Its awhy we still have a bloated government despite the fact republicans won both houses due to opposition to Obama-care, out of control spending, Executive amnesties and other stuff. If republicans were not RINOS then every bill reaching Obama's desk would contain cuts and they would be in bills Obama wanted. THere wouldn't be this bull **** d.o.a. stand alone bills meant to con voters at home into thinking that they are trying to repeal this or that. Its why despite campaigning against Obama-care they demonize the one guy who actually stood up and shut down the government to repeal it. The only thing a Kasich victory ensures is more of the same nonsense going on.

You never did answer my question as to what happens if Cruz is the nominee and loses to Clinton. What happens then? Would you then want to vote for someone more conservative than Cruz next time around? Would Cruz then be considered a RINO?

I can play that game too. What happens if Kasich gets the nomination and loses.What happens then? Are you going to say "hey we should have propped up a even bigger RINO, do you think Joe Biden can run as a republican"? Are you going to blame the republican base for not voting for a RINO again? Are you going to say its all their fault why Kasich lost? Like I said before "I would rather vote for the guy I want to win and lose, then vote for someone I despise and win".

 

[Moderate Right]

A compromise implies that both sides give up something in order to get something in return. A compromise is only good if both sides uphold their end of the compromise, which is immigration reform is seen as nothing more than code for amnesty with hollow promises of enforcement. Compromises are not always good because they help the other side gain a foot or sometimes a mile.

Not every independent is a liberal,so this idea that republicans have to be liberal to get their vote is absurd.

RINOS don't give two ****s about conservatism. Its only something they give lip service to in order to get votes. Its why Obama-care is still being funded and Obama's executive amnesties are still being funded.Its awhy we still have a bloated government despite the fact republicans won both houses due to opposition to Obama-care, out of control spending, Executive amnesties and other stuff. If republicans were not RINOS then every bill reaching Obama's desk would contain cuts and they would be in bills Obama wanted. THere wouldn't be this bull **** d.o.a. stand alone bills meant to con voters at home into thinking that they are trying to repeal this or that. Its why despite campaigning against Obama-care they demonize the one guy who actually stood up and shut down the government to repeal it. The only thing a Kasich victory ensures is more of the same nonsense going on.


I can play that game too. What happens if Kasich gets the nomination and loses.What happens then? Are you going to say "hey we should have propped up a even bigger RINO, do you think Joe Biden can run as a republican"? Are you going to blame the republican base for not voting for a RINO again? Are you going to say its all their fault why Kasich lost? Like I said before "I would rather vote for the guy I want to win and lose, then vote for someone I despise and win".

Whether you want to believe it or not, you guys are destroying the Republican party and handing it over to the Democrats for decades to come. I hope you're proud of that. You still keep avoiding my question of what happens if Cruz wins the nomination but loses to Hillary. What happens then? Is life over?

 

[reinoe]

I'm not even talking about a third party. The far righties take pride in the fact that both McCain and Romney did not win because the base did not show up to vote. In other words, the base is responsible for eight years of Obama policies and it's not looking good for the next election either. The base would rather have Clinton's policies by nominating either Trump or Cruz, both sure to lose to Clinton. In other words again, the base would rather have Clinton as president than Kasich. They are delusional if they think either Trump or Cruz could beat Hillary.

Mitt Romney had some serious flaws. Just because you stand for nothing doesn't mean that's the way everyone feels.

 

[upsideguy]

The RINOS propping up McCain and Romney is basically a huge middle finger to the base. That is why the base didn't vote for those guys. Turmp is Mitt Romney 2.0. It makes no sense for someone who is against socialize medicine to vote for the guy who came out with the predecessor to Obama-care. It makes no sense for someone who is pro-2nd amendment to vote for a guy enacted the first assault weapons ban at the state level and other ant-2nd amendment laws that Obama has wet dreams about passing. It makes no sense for someone who believes only in natural climate change and or thinks man made global warming fairy tale is a scam to vote for a guy who supports cap and trade. It makes no sense for someone who is against illegal immigration to vote for someone who is for amnesty.

I would rather lose with the guy who I want in office than win with a guy I don't want in office.

...which is exactly why you need to get use to losing. The Conservative view of the world is a minority view... and you need a majority to win.

The only way a Conservative has a shot is if the Dems ran an extreme liberal. Appealing to the center of the populace is the only way you can win a national election. A conservative base nor a liberal base is not sufficient to win.

 

[radcen]

Whether you want to believe it or not, you guys are destroying the Republican party and handing it over to the Democrats for decades to come. I hope you're proud of that. You still keep avoiding my question of what happens if Cruz wins the nomination but loses to Hillary. What happens then? Is life over?

I disagree with the "...for decades to come..." part, because they will find a way to eff up their new-gained advantage (they're an ego-driven political party, it's in their blood), but I agree with your overall point that the extreme Reps are their own worst enemy right now.

 

[jamesrage]

Whether you want to believe it or not, you guys are destroying the Republican party and handing it over to the Democrats for decades to come. I hope you're proud of that.

Running a RINO in 2008 didn't work. Running a uber RINO in 2012 didn't work either. So logic would dictate that running a RINO in 2016 won't work either.

You still keep avoiding my question of what happens if Cruz wins the nomination but loses to Hillary. What happens then? Is life over?

I keep telling you my answer and you keep ignoring it.
"I would rather vote for the guy I want to win and lose, then vote for someone I despise and win".