Vietnam

[ReverendHellh0und]

Actually I was taking the word of military veterans who studied and researched the topic. I guess you do not.

So you believe the words of veterans who joined an activist group who "Researched" it over first hand accounts of honorable veterans. noted.

I was also observing that not one shred of verifiable evidence has ever been produced for the charge despite offers of rewards for the last forty years.

Far more witness accounts than that of a NBC member being spat upon and called racial slurs, yet you believe them without question, why the double standard?

 

[haymarket]

Another lie. You really need to stop, I brought in your blatant hypocrisy and your unrepentant double standards. You suggest honorable veterans should be disbelieved, but NBC memebers surrounded by cameras who claim they were spat upon and called racial names must be believed without question.

It demonstrates your lack of credibility, and your level of contempt for those who served, vs those who agree with you politically.

This only demonstrates your zeal and fervor to introduce the tea party into topics where they have no place. While that says nothing about the topic being discussed, it speaks volumes about your tactics and motivations.

And why are you lying about me? I have already told you I thank those who have served - and that is regardless of what their opinion is. That is what separates me from you. Or one of the things at any rate.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

This only demonstrates your zeal and fervor to introduce the tea party into topics where they have no place. While that says nothing about the topic being discussed, it speaks volumes about your tactics and motivations.

And why are you lying about me? I have already told you I thank those who have served - and that is regardless of what their opinion is. That is what separates me from you. Or one of the things at any rate.

I am pointing out the hypocrisy of your positions, you keep trying to insult me. Please refrain from such activity. You are being dishonest in what my positions are and what my point is., the tea party has nothing to do with this thread, pointing your your hypocricy however does.


You bashed people for not believeing the NBC members claims of racial slurs and being spat upon, now you do a 180 when it's veterans. Why?

 

[haymarket]

I am pointing out the hypocrisy of your positions, you keep trying to insult me. Please refrain from such activity. You are being dishonest in what my positions are and what my point is., the tea party has nothing to do with this thread, pointing your your hypocricy however does.


You bashed people for not believeing the NBC members claims of racial slurs and being spat upon, now you do a 180 when it's veterans. Why?

The only thing that you are doing is attempting to introduce one of your favorite topics - defense of the tea party - into a discussion about a period in American history WHEN THEY DID NOT EVEN EXIST.

If now you say that "the tea party has nothing to do with this thread", - it was YOU who introduced them in the first place.

I bet you were another one who think the tea party spat on and called those NBC members racist names.

A rather lame and sad attempt to derail the thread.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

The only thing that you are doing is attempting to introduce one of your favorite topics - defense of the tea party - into a discussion about a period in American history WHEN THEY DID NOT EVEN EXIST.

If now you say that "the tea party has nothing to do with this thread", - it was YOU who introduced them in the first place.



A rather lame and sad attempt to derail the thread.

My work here is done, I've pointed out your glaring hypocrisy, and you are left trying to deflect dishonestly the point to avoid addressing your raging double standard.

 

[clownboy]

Actually I was taking the word of military veterans who studied and researched the topic. I guess you do not.

I was also observing that not one shred of verifiable evidence has ever been produced for the charge despite offers of rewards for the last forty years.

AFAIK there has been no reward offerred for the last forty years. And really, this is just the Winter Soldiers crap all over again.

 

[haymarket]

My work here is done, I've pointed out your glaring hypocrisy, and you are left trying to deflect dishonestly the point to avoid addressing your raging double standard.

Your work - trying to derail the thread from a topic that you were losing on - was done several pages ago.

If you want to discuss what you feel is hypocrisy, fell free to start your own thread. Present your evidence. Present your arguments. They will be read, evaluated and discussed for what they are worth.

 

[Catawba]

How many 17-19 year olds know all about the why of anything involving the country and its wars?

I did. It was on the news every night for a decade.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

AFAIK there has been no reward offerred for the last forty years. And really, this is just the Winter Soldiers crap all over again.

yeah, but they consider that traitor a hero.

 

[Zyphlin]

Moderator's Warning:

If you feel someone is baiting you, report it don't accuse them of violating the rules. If you feel someone is derailing a thread by bringing something up, report it don't accuse them of violating the rules. The overtones of a basement feud is evident and obvious and it needs to end as the line between what's acceptable and not is going to be very slim given posters histories and as such I'd suggest avoiding getting close to it if you don't want to accidently step over it

 

[haymarket]

I did. It was on the news every night for a decade.

That is an excellent point. And lets us not forget that during that period of time - the Sixties and the early Seventies - most TV's got only three or four channels and the audience for NBC, CBS and ABC nightly news was a much larger percentage of the public that it is today. People were raised on the Viet Nam war. It was really the first war that came into their living rooms on a nightly basis via television.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Your work - trying to derail the thread from a topic that you were losing on - was done several pages ago.

If you want to discuss what you feel is hypocrisy, fell free to start your own thread. Present your evidence. Present your arguments. They will be read, evaluated and discussed for what they are worth.

The relevance here is your double standard, you demand that since there was no pictures or video, etc that we must dismiss these first hand accounts by veterans, however in the past, you held a completely contradictory position, one that, you demanded folks must believe the NBC members claim of being spat upon and called racial slurs, simply because they claimed it. The hypocrisy of such a position is transparent, and germain to the subject of vietnam and the reports of veterans being spat upon, by the veterans themselves.

 

[clownboy]

That is an excellent point. And lets us not forget that during that period of time - the Sixties and the early Seventies - most TV's got only three or four channels and the audience for NBC, CBS and ABC nightly news was a much larger percentage of the public that it is today. People were raised on the Viet Nam war. It was really the first war that came into their living rooms on a nightly basis via television.

No we weren't raised on it. Were you really alive and kicking back then? National news was a half hour a day (same program rebroadcast later at night), and they didn't report on the reasons and causes of the conflict. That was newspapers, and even they were heavily censored/editted.

And what 17/18 year old then was going to sit around watching the news. That was dinner time and then get the hell out of the house to be with girls time. Speaking for myself, all I was really concerned with at that point in life was seeing boobies and maybe getting laid without getting married first.

 

[Catawba]

Sorry, I believe the words of honorable veterans, than that of cowards, activists, and draft dodgers as you linked to.

Do you believe that all of the thousands of Vietnam Vets that protested against the war when they got out were "cowards, activists, and draft dodgers?"

Or, do you think they felt it was their duty to try and stop a war that made no sense to prevent more of their brothers from being killed needlessly?

 

[disneydude]

I wonder how many of my left wing friends even watched the video clip......I am so glad that the guys coming back led by President Bush who meets the planes coming back all the time are treated well......

Does he go greet the ones who came/come back in body bags who gave their lives as a result of his lies and manipulation?....yeah.....thought not.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Do you believe that all of the thousands of Vietnam Vets that protested against the war when they got out were "cowards, activists, and draft dodgers?"

Nope, And you won't be able to find a post where I've claimed otherwise. What percentage of all vietnam vets protested the war? Please back up your claim with an unbiased source.

Or, do you think they felt it was their duty to try and stop a war that made no sense to prevent more of their brothers from being killed needlessly?

"when did you stop beating your wife?", sorry, I don't play "loaded questions".

 

[haymarket]

No we weren't raised on it. Were you really alive and kicking back then? National news was a half hour a day (same program rebroadcast later at night), and they didn't report on the reasons and causes of the conflict. That was newspapers, and even they were heavily censored/editted.

And what 17/18 year old then was going to sit around watching the news.

I was born in 49. Yes, I was raised with the nightly news. heck, I remember when Huntley & Brinkley were on for 15 minutes a night. I remember Murrow for heavens sake.

Just like you, I loved girls more than life itself - but still found time to keep informed and educated at the same time.

 

[Redress]

Not true people that believe like you that Veterans don't deserve their pensions and that it is some kind of gift from the government.... I would hope that you as a vet yourself would have been n the side of those beave women and children.

Now you are just making **** up again. Never have I said that pensions are not deserved nor that they are a gift of the government. Not sure why you have to lie, but it should tell you something.

 

[Catawba]

Nope, And you won't be able to find a post where I've claimed otherwise.

OK, then do you think it is possible that other people that were not Vietnam Vets also protested against the war for moral reasons just like the Vets?

 

[Navy Pride]

Now you are just making **** up again. Never have I said that pensions are not deserved nor that they are a gift of the government. Not sure why you have to lie, but it should tell you something.

You said people who received pensions are accepting socialism...

 

[clownboy]

OK, then do you think it is possible that other people that were not Vietnam Vets also protested against the war for moral reasons just like the Vets?

Of course (I know, you weren't asking me) there were, and there were vets who, just back from war were sick of it and protested. I highly doubt any of those were among the spitters, or the more fanatical elements. But then you had folks like the Winter Soldiers who thought it'd be okay to lie as long as they got their message across. Turns out some of them never served.

The same with virtually any protest or rally. You have the sincere folks, the ones just there for the show and the fanatics that will do anything for attention or whatever their internal motivation guides them to. It's a spectrum. And the entire crowd gets the blame for the actions of it's flakier participants.

Btw, I disagreed with the need for this conflict then, and still today. Doesn't make me any happier with some of the actions of the protesters and even less happy with this attempt to rewrite the history I was there for.

 

[Redress]

You said people who received pensions are accepting socialism...

Nope, did not say that either. I said government run pensions are socialist programs, which is quite a bit different. Stop lying NP.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

OK, then do you think it is possible that other people that were not Vietnam Vets also protested against the war for moral reasons just like the Vets?

I don't know why you find the need to ask such asinine questions. I agree with clownboy and wont bother repeating his answer. :shrug:

 

[Catawba]

Of course (I know, you weren't asking me) there were, and there were vets who, just back from war were sick of it and protested. I highly doubt any of those were among the spitters, or the more fanatical elements. But then you had folks like the Winter Soldiers who thought it'd be okay to lie as long as they got their message across. Turns out some of them never served.

The same with virtually any protest or rally. You have the sincere folks, the ones just there for the show and the fanatics that will do anything for attention or whatever their internal motivation guides them to. It's a spectrum. And the entire crowd gets the blame for the actions of it's flakier participants.

Btw, I disagreed with the need for this conflict then, and still today. Doesn't make me any happier with some of the actions of the protesters and even less happy with this attempt to rewrite the history I was there for.

I would also never have condoned that type of behavior towards the troops. I participated in 2 large national (non-violent) anti-war protests and never once observed anyone showing disrespect for the soldiers. The first demonstration I was in was organized by Vietnam Veterans.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I would also never have condoned that type of behavior towards the troops. I participated in 2 large national (non-violent) anti-war protests and never once observed anyone showing disrespect for the soldiers. The first demonstration I was in was organized by Vietnam Veterans.

I've seen you post some very insulting about us soldiers (cartoon thread). So I'd advise anyone to take your claim with a grain of salt.