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Vatican rejects “chosen people” claim, calls on Israel to end “occupation”

TheDemSocialist

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A high-ranking Israeli official on Sunday slammed a statement from Catholic bishops, who called for international organizations to lead the cause of Palestinian statehood.Greek-Melchite Archbishop Cyrille Bustros sparked an interreligious firestorm when he suggested that Israel was “using Scripture” to continue its occupation of Palestinian territory.
"The Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of the Palestinians,” Bustros said at the close of a two-week conference in Rome, Italy, “to justify the occupation by Israel of Palestinian lands.”
The Archbishop then questioned the biblical idea of a “promised land” set aside by a specific group of people.
"We Christians cannot speak of the promised land as an exclusive right for a privileged Jewish people,”Bustros continued. "This promise was nullified by Christ. There is no longer a chosen people – all men and women of all countries have become the chosen people."
Bustros led the group that drafted the synod's concluding statement on Israel and the Palestinians.
The controversial comments came at the conclusion of a two-week Vatican conference assembled to discuss the plight of Christians in the Middle East.
Pope Benedict XVI was in attendance at the synod and celebrated Mass in St. Peter's Cathedral on Sunday with the bishops.


Read more @ : Vatican rejects ?chosen people? claim, calls on Israel to end ?occupation? ? RT Russian politics

Looks like the Vatican is not buying the "chosen people" claim for the Israelis..

 
Idiots, Judaism doesn't rely upon the distorted copy of the Torah to legitimise their claim to Israel in the first place.
 
Read more @ : Vatican rejects ?chosen people? claim, calls on Israel to end ?occupation? ? RT Russian politics

Looks like the Vatican is not buying the "chosen people" claim for the Israelis..

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The Vatican adopted no such position. An Archbishop heading a commission at a Synod made the statement. Afterward, he clarified his comments explaining, ""In my answer I was thinking in particular of Jewish settlers who claim their right to build on Palestinian territory by saying it forms part of biblical Israel, the land promised by God to the Jews according to the Old Testament... The creation of Israel in 1948 is a political issue, not religious".

VATICAN - ISRAEL Archbishop Bustros clarifies his words about Israel and the Promised Land - Asia News
 
Oy vey... A blood sucking theocracy that critics another State on religious issues.. Where are we going?
Anyway the article is from 2010, as far as I know some years ago the Vatican had some "tensions" with Israel, mainly because they pretend to own some properties on Israeli soil without paying for taxes.... But I'm not a Christian and I never been very interested in what happens in that 0,44 sqkm (0.17 sq mi) state...
But the current pope looks to be very friendly to Jews. I also saw some pictures of him celebrating Hannukah with Jewish community in Buenos Aires.

BTW: I think that peoples have a lot of confusion about the meaning of "chosen people". As chosen stand sfor "by G-d to follow He's rules", it may be considered a responsibility more than a claim of superiority as some "critics" wanna make it look. But I think that hight instructed peoples like the ones in the Vatican know it very well...
 
BTW: I think that peoples have a lot of confusion about the meaning of "chosen people". As chosen stand sfor "by G-d to follow He's rules", it may be considered a responsibility more than a claim of superiority as some "critics" wanna make it look. But I think that hight instructed peoples like the ones in the Vatican know it very well...

This is a key point. The "chosen people" concept is not understood by some. By others it is distorted into something it isn't.

Hopefully, the new Pope will open the Vatican archives to scholarly researchers.
 
The Vatican adopted no such position. An Archbishop heading a commission at a Synod made the statement. Afterward, he clarified his comments explaining, ""In my answer I was thinking in particular of Jewish settlers who claim their right to build on Palestinian territory by saying it forms part of biblical Israel, the land promised by God to the Jews according to the Old Testament... The creation of Israel in 1948 is a political issue, not religious".

VATICAN - ISRAEL Archbishop Bustros clarifies his words about Israel and the Promised Land - Asia News
The Distortion becuse he's Again (it's regular) sourcing anti-Israel/antisemitic conspiracy site RT/Russia Today.
RT and Iran's PressTV, the main Israel sources with which he spray paints this board.
It's unabashed and intentionally biased posting.
 
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This is a key point. The "chosen people" concept is not understood by some. By others it is distorted into something it isn't.
I agree, in Italian chosen people is translated with popolo eletto (elected people), that think it is even easier to misunderstand.
There is too much ignorance about Judaism here...
 
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I think very few people base their support for Israel on purely religious grounds. I don't support it because I think the Jews are the "chosen people" (I think that's baloney), the Jews deserve a state by virtue of their historic oppression.

I know that there are some Christian Zionists who support Israel on the basis that this should facilitate the Second Coming. I hate that, because the Jews are essentially pawns in that whole scheme.
 
I'm beginning to like the Vatican more and more.
 
Idiots, Judaism doesn't rely upon the distorted copy of the Torah to legitimise their claim to Israel in the first place.

What do they rely on?
 
I think very few people base their support for Israel on purely religious grounds. I don't support it because I think the Jews are the "chosen people" (I think that's baloney), the Jews deserve a state by virtue of their historic oppression.

I know that there are some Christian Zionists who support Israel on the basis that this should facilitate the Second Coming. I hate that, because the Jews are essentially pawns in that whole scheme.

So in your opinion any "peoples" who have been the victims of "historic oppression" deserve their own country carved out of the belly of others?
 
I think very few people base their support for Israel on purely religious grounds. I don't support it because I think the Jews are the "chosen people" (I think that's baloney), the Jews deserve a state by virtue of their historic oppression.

I know that there are some Christian Zionists who support Israel on the basis that this should facilitate the Second Coming. I hate that, because the Jews are essentially pawns in that whole scheme.

Believe me, Jews are not the "pawns" in that melodrama.
 
What do they rely on?
We rely on the fact that we don't owe you an explanation about why we have the right to live in our country any more than you owe us an explanation about why you have the right to live in yours.

The sheer audacity and hypocrisy needed to suggest that we do is mind-boggling, in my eyes.
 
We rely on the fact that we don't owe you an explanation about why we have the right to live in our country any more than you owe us an explanation about why you have the right to live in yours.

The sheer audacity and hypocrisy needed to suggest that we do is mind-boggling, in my eyes.

Netanyahoo, is that you?
 
Netanyahoo, is that you?
If the "yahoo" part of the name is an intentional reference to those creatures ruled by horses in "Gulliver's Travels" you get two likes from me.

EDIT: make that three.
 
The State of Israel was created via vote in the UN. If the UN votes to create a Palestinian state based on original demarcations, will Israel comply?
 
What do they rely on?

The Torah of course and the rest of their recorded history. The biblical New Testament is just a blatant ripoff of the Torah, altered to suit the Catholic Church. You do know the Bible wasn't put together until many centuries after Christ's time (though the core codex was being compiled and used back in the 4th century after Christ), right? The Torah predates all that by a couple thousand years for the written version and longer than that for the oral version.
 
So in your opinion any "peoples" who have been the victims of "historic oppression" deserve their own country carved out of the belly of others?

There was no "belly of others" at that point in history. Once the Ottomon Empire fell the territory of Palestine was split into a couple protectorates (mandates), and then gradually became countries in their own right.
 
The State of Israel was created via vote in the UN. If the UN votes to create a Palestinian state based on original demarcations, will Israel comply?

Strawman question, who cares as it will never happen.
 
The Torah of course and the rest of their recorded history. The biblical New Testament is just a blatant ripoff of the Torah, altered to suit the Catholic Church. You do know the Bible wasn't put together until many centuries after Christ's time (though the core codex was being compiled and used back in the 4th century after Christ), right? The Torah predates all that by a couple thousand years for the written version and longer than that for the oral version.

Well, since 2000 years ago what "recorded history" do the hebrews have in Palestine?
 
The State of Israel was created via vote in the UN. If the UN votes to create a Palestinian state based on original demarcations, will Israel comply?
That question isn't really on-topic.
Not that I'm objecting to discussing it, I'd just like to be clear first that we've abandoned the discussion about the whole "how Jews justify their claim to Israel" thing.
 
That question isn't really on-topic.
Not that I'm objecting to discussing it, I'd just like to be clear first that we've abandoned the discussion about the whole "how Jews justify their claim to Israel" thing.

Threads wander some all time. But if you don't want to answer then let's get back to the OP.

How does Israel justify their claims to palestine? Outside of the bible and the UN vote, I don't see it.
 
Well, since 2000 years ago what "recorded history" do the hebrews have in Palestine?

Trick question, 2000 years ago that area was part of the United Kingdom of Israel that had just been defeated by the Babylonians with the leadership banished to Babylonia. The Babylonian empire was replaced by the Achaemenid Empire, then came Alexander the Great. That is if you're talking about your mistaken notion of what the territory of Palestine was.

There was no Palestine. But to answer your busted question - the Torah and a whole raft of other documents from ledgers to letters.
 
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Not that I'm objecting to discussing it, I'd just like to be clear first that we've abandoned the discussion about the whole "how Jews justify their claim to Israel" thing.

maybe I am wrong here, but when I read the remark I instantly questioned if he was talking about larger Israel or just the settlers. Seems it's a pretty good generalization of the settler movements, who seemingly do have the ability to dictate policy to some level (if I recall, offering them extra benefits went far in winning Bibi the PM back in 08/09).

Though with that said, I do not follow internal israeli politics at all, and this is just stuff I picked up while reading the morning paper
 
The new testament is a dumbed-down version of the old testament, made to be understood by the un-chosen.

The vatican and catholicism has as many a disengenuous members, i.e., most, if not all of the top Nazi's in WWII were raised as Catholics and most of the Nazi's who escaped justice did so with the help of their catholic brethren inside of the vatican, Jesuits included.

Conversely, many Catholics died to help those who were being persecuted by the Nazi's.

It's a screwed up world, for sure.
 
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