Vaccines do not kill viruses.

[Napoleon]

Trump supporters have ruined it for everybody. Now they are paying for it. In areas of wide spread the virus is easily jumping from person to person. It's jumping into vaccinated people but not necessarily infecting them. They can still spread it.

You only have yourselves to blame. You threw a tantrum and and your the ones feeling the pain.

A couple of things here. First, if they are contagious then they are infected. The only thing the vaccination does for anyone is render you asymptomatic or at least less likely to need critical care. It doesn’t prevent you from being infected with the virus or from passing the virus to others. Second, mutations are random and unintentional so all of this finger pointing at the unvaccinated is scientifically baseless.

 

[Deuce]

1. One of the most thoughtful posts that I have read on this national and international tragedy.

2. Maybe the powers-that-be know the information in the OP to be accurate, but they fear that most people (like me) are too stupid to understand, so they just simplified it for us dolts: Take vaccine. You will not get COVID. End of discussion.

a. I have noticed that the powers-that-be are now saying: OK, you may get COVID, but the symptoms will be mild and you probably will not even need hospitalization.

3. I am not yet vaccinated, but I probably will get vaccinated.

a. The powers-that-be are doing a great job in scaring me.
b. They tell me I am in the risk group (I'm 84).
c. They tell me I might end up on a respirator,
d. They tell me I should do it as a patriotic duty.
e. They assure me the side effects are minor and easy to endure until they disappear.

4. Except for not being vaccinated, I am doing what I can.

a. I have always been a homebody, so now I am a homebody on steroids.
b. I might leave the house once a week to mail some letters or shop.
c. I wear a mask outside whenever I see another pedestrian and always try to turn my face away from the passing person.
d. I try to maintain a 6-foot-distance.
e. I never browse in a store. Try to be in & out in 10 minutes or less.
f. Even afraid to breathe fresh air, for the powers-that-be tell me someone might have left virus particles in the air.
g. Of course, wash my hands after handling mail.

5. We are now being warned about a huge surge reaching its highest peak in October. When the numbers go down, will there be another surge in, say, January of 2022 (that will be attributed to Christmas travel, just as this current surge is being attributed to July 4th travel)?

6. The unvaccinated are now being told: Vaccinate or lose your job or place at the university.

a. Of course, a lot of vaccinated people are cheering this decision.

At 84 years old, the virus is vastly more likely to cause you serious harm or death than the vaccine is.

It doesn't matter how many precautions you take. They can reduce your liklihood of getting the virus, but not eliminate it. So the risk of the virus must be assessed, and the math overwhelmingly favors getting vaccinated.

It's not "get the vaccine, you will not get covid." Vaccines aren't magic, they don't create a forcefield that keeps the virus out. What vaccines do is make your immune system respond more quickly and more efficiently when the virus does show up, so you don't actually get seriously ill. Hardly any vaccinated people are ending up in the hospital. (it's like 99% unvaccinated) This means the people exposed to the virus who are vaccinated are not going to the hospital because they're not getting sick enough to warrant hospitalization.

Seat belts don't save your life in 100% of car crashes, but objectively your chances are significantly improved if you wear one. There's no scenario in which it makes logical sense to not where a seatbelt while driving. Same with vaccines. Your odds get better if you are vaccinated. It's a simple, logical step to reduce your risks.

 

[holbritter]

Trump supporters have ruined it for everybody. Now they are paying for it. In areas of wide spread the virus is easily jumping from person to person. It's jumping into vaccinated people but not necessarily infecting them. They can still spread it.

You only have yourselves to blame. You threw a tantrum and and your the ones feeling the pain.

Excuse me? I'm not a Trump supporter. I'm also vaccinated.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Apparently all of the people suggesting that Trump’s miracle will come to fruition if everyone is vaccinated.

are you suggesting that vaccines aren't effective against a pandemic like this one (keeping people alive, etc)?

 

[Deuce]

A couple of things here. First, if they are contagious then they are infected. The only thing the vaccination does for anyone is render you asymptomatic or at least less likely to need critical care. It doesn’t prevent you from being infected with the virus or from passing the virus to others.

Yes, thank you for identifying one of the key benefits of vaccinations. You wont go to the hospital, most likely. However, it's worth pointing out that you also reduce the risk of infecting others if you are vaccinated. Your viral loads are lower if you are vaccinated, because your body is responding faster and more efficiently. The virus is also wiped from your system more quickly, so your window where you could possibly infect others is also shorter. The vaccine protects you and it protects other people.

Second, mutations are random and unintentional so all of this finger pointing at the unvaccinated is scientifically baseless.

Vaccinations mean the virus is killed off more quickly, and spreads to fewer people, therefore having fewer opportunities to mutate. You're absolutely right, mutations are random rolls of the dice. Most of these dice rolls are harmless, most mutations are insignificant or even detrimental. Evolution takes care of these. However, sometimes the dice go bad. It's statistics.

Since that is the case... wouldn't you think it's a good idea to roll fewer dice?

 

[Deuce]

Hey - you be you and stand firm with the 1% of scientists who believe that eradication is a probable outcome. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think we have enough people losing faith in epidemiologists already to be promoting unlikely scenarios.

I never said I think it's a probable outcome. It's not a probable outcome, because we have too many red hat dipshits who are resisting a vaccine purely because they hate liberals. (plus the usual screeching tinfoil hat antivax people and the dumb ass hippie antivax people and the religious fanatic antivax people)

However, the idea that a high vaccination rate doesn't eliminate a virus as a problem is ludicrously false. Flies in the face of all evidence. Anyone who thinks "natural immunity" is better than vaccination is completely moronic and they need to read a history book.

 

[iguanaman]

There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system without propagating the disease. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.

Getting everyone vaccinated will save lives. That much is clear. If someone is on top of a building and threatening to jump should we just tell them to jump because this is a free country?

 

[ecofarm]

Hey - you be you and stand firm with the 1% of scientists who believe that eradication is a probable outcome. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think we have enough people losing faith in epidemiologists already to be promoting unlikely scenarios.

Strawman.

No virus is ever eradicated. No one expects any to be.

Your stupid rhetoric targets the most ignorant.

 

[Allan]

There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Everyone who took high school biology knows this.

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

Vaccines eliminated smallpox and polio.

 

[Napoleon]

are you suggesting that vaccines aren't effective against a pandemic like this one (keeping people alive, etc)?

Assuming that the medicine keeps up with mutation - vaccines can be an effective way of living with a virus. As for pandemics…that’s debatable. Like influenza, the pandemic is never really over. It’s just that society reaches what it thinks is a more acceptable number of fatalities and moves on.

 

[Taylor]

Trump supporters have ruined it for everybody. Now they are paying for it. In areas of wide spread the virus is easily jumping from person to person. It's jumping into vaccinated people but not necessarily infecting them.

Unfortunately, this mindless dribble is more infectious than Covid itself.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-07-09/covid-cases-surge-in-los-angeles-county-as-delta-variant-spreads

Delta Variant In Los Angeles: 20% Of Covid Cases Now Among Vaccinated Residents

Delta Variant In Los Angeles: 20% Of Covid Cases Now Among Vaccinated Residents

deadline.com

 

[Taylor]

Vaccines eliminated smallpox and polio.

So what?

 

[Allan]

Strawman.

No virus is ever eradicated. No one expects any to be.

Your stupid rhetoric targets the most ignorant.

Smallpox was eliminated. It can not infect any other natural host.

 

[ecofarm]

Smallpox was eliminated. It can not infect any other natural host.

Small pox still exists. Always will. The post I quote is moronic bs targeting ignorant people. It claims 1% of medical professionals believe the impossible will occur. That's a lie only an idiot would believe.

 

[Allan]

Small pox still exists. Always will. The post I quote is moronic bs targeting ignorant people. It claims 1% of medical professionals believe the impossible will occur. That's a lie only an idiot would believe.

Smallpox is gone from everywhere in the natural world. It exists today only in labs.

Smallpox had successfully infected humans for so long it lost its ability to infect any other hosts.

 

[Napoleon]

Small pox still exists. Always will. The post I quote is moronic bs targeting ignorant people. It claims 1% of medical professionals believe the impossible will occur. That's a lie only an idiot would believe.

Humans are the only natural host for smallpox. It only exists now in laboratories and weapons stockpiles.

 

[Taylor]

Strawman.

No virus is ever eradicated. No one expects any to be.

Your stupid rhetoric targets the most ignorant.

You seem to be confused about the difference between eradication and extinction.

 

[ecofarm]

You seem to be confused about the difference between eradication and extinction.

You're pretending perfection is the only good outcome. If it's not eradicated, then we're wasting our time. That's a strawman. Let's say Covid will never be eradicated. Who cares. We should still reduce incidence.

You have one example of a disease eradicated. It's not the expected outcome.

Your strawman is stupid and targets Trumpers.

 

[Helix]

Very few scientists believe we can "eradicate" Covid with vaccines. It's likely here to stay.

It's likely to be a much less serious problem if people just get the shots. That's beyond debate.

 

[Napoleon]

It's likely to be a much less serious problem if people just get the shots. That's beyond debate.

It would be disappointing if everyone pulls an influenza and just shrugs their shoulders at 34,000-43,000 dead every year because it could be worse.

 

[Credence]

I don't think I have heard anyone say the virus would be eliminated. Just that the vaccines would protect you from serious illness or death

 

[Taylor]

You're pretending perfection is the only good outcome. If it's not eradicated, then we're wasting our time.

I never said anything remotely like that. YOU'RE the one making strawmen. All I'm doing is managing expectations. Vaccines will not make Covid the next Polio.

 

[ecofarm]

I never said anything remotely like that. YOU'RE the one making strawmen. All I'm doing is managing expectations. Vaccines will not make Covid the next Polio.

You oppose taking actions against Covid on the basis that your opponent expects eradication. That's bs. Eradication is not necessary. You're pushing death cult bs.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Assuming that the medicine keeps up with mutation - vaccines can be an effective way of living with a virus. As for pandemics…that’s debatable. Like influenza, the pandemic is never really over. It’s just that society reaches what it thinks is a more acceptable number of fatalities and moves on.

so you think it's debatable that the vaccines are keeping people alive (during COVID)?

what is your background?

 

[Taylor]

You oppose taking actions against Covid on the basis that your opponent expects eradication. That's bs. Eradication is not necessary. You're pushing death cult bs.

Where did I "oppose taking actions against Covid"?

You keep digging a bigger hole.