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Vaccines do not kill viruses.

Captain Adverse

Captain Adverse

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There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system without propagating the disease. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
 
Captain Adverse said:
There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response is a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...

Polio was eliminated in the US in 1979 due to vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

14 Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

Routine vaccinations protect against these 14 diseases.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

Polio was eliminated in the United States with vaccination, and continued use of polio vaccine has kept this country polio-free.
Click to expand...
 
Vaccines slow the transmission of the virus until enough people are protected and the virus slows because it has a lack of hosts. If enough people were vaccinated or have natural immunity the virus might not have time to mutate into a stronger form unaffected by a vaccine.
 
americanwoman said:
Polio was eliminated in the US in 1979 due to vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

14 Diseases You Almost Forgot About (Thanks to Vaccines)

Routine vaccinations protect against these 14 diseases.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
Click to expand...

Has polio been completely eliminated, or is it only "suppressed" as in the USA?

Answer:

Poliomyelitis: Does polio still exist? Is it curable?...There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented. Polio vaccine, given multiple times, can protect a child for life.​


Poliomyelitis: Does polio still exist? Is it curable?

www.who.int www.who.int
 
Captain Adverse said:
There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system without propagating the disease. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...

You are obviously an infectious disease expert of some importance....I just want to know:

Are you Facebook Certified?

:LOL: 😂
 
Captain Adverse said:
Has polio been completely eliminated, or is it only "suppressed" as in the USA?

Answer:

Poliomyelitis: Does polio still exist? Is it curable?...There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented. Polio vaccine, given multiple times, can protect a child for life.​


Poliomyelitis: Does polio still exist? Is it curable?

www.who.int www.who.int
Click to expand...

How many people do you personally know that caught polio and why exactly do you think it's such a small amount?
 
Vaccines do not cure. They merely prevent. So, if you get shot in the chest, putting on a bullet proof vest will not cure the wound. However, if you had put a vest on, it will have stopped that bullet and prevented the wound. The OP is right-on. Brilliant. Original thought. Of course, it's much easier to get vaccinated then to walk around each day in a bullet proof vest. And many times more people are dying of COVID than gunshots. And you can't put a vest on once a yr for a couple minutes and protect yourself from taking a bullet. And...
 
Breakthrough infections are very rare in vaccinated people. The more people who are vaccinated the less infections are out there. The unvaccinated are making it easy to spread this ultra infectious variant.
 
Captain Adverse said:
There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system without propagating the disease. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...

I take it you do not support any type of vaccination then?

Who says that the "demands" of the many is being done out of fear?
 
Captain Adverse said:
1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...

Are these conclusions based on rigorous studies, or did you just come up with them yourself?

Antibiotics don’t kill all bacteria either. Should we stop using antibiotics too?
 
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Captain Adverse said:
There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system without propagating the disease. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...

Vaccines do speed up “herd immunity” which, once attained, greatly lessens (or eliminates) a virus spreading within that population (herd). When was the last time you saw polio in the news?
 
Captain Adverse said:
There is a lot of hype about vaccines and what they do. But one thing people need to recognize is that vaccines are not a "cure," i.e. they don't "kill viruses."

Vaccines are a preparation of either a weakened/killed form of a pathogen (like Smallpox variolation), or a harmless portion of a pathogen's structure (typically the outside coating sans the harmful RNA), either of which will trigger a reaction of the human immune system without propagating the disease. This allows the immune system to recognize the active pathogen, then react to both the initial and then the subsequent exposure by developing and producing antibodies to fight off/kill the pathogen.

However, some people have less robust immune systems than most others, often due to age and/or pre-existing medical issues. There are even a very rare few (due to lack of survivability without drastic measures, i.e. "Bubble Boy") persons born with no immune systems.

There are also other persons whose immune systems are so robust that they are already capable of recognizing such pathogens without "priming" via vaccination, and automatically react to create antibodies. ("Natural" immunes).

Meanwhile, viruses remain capable of mutating inside a host, as they are just little packets of biological information designed for one purpose; replication by using the bodies of more complex organisms.

My point in describing the above? Two current "facts."

1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...
Is there a point to this rant? If enough people vaccinate, we can protect the population. If enough people vaccinate for long enough, we can effectively remove a disease from the human race. There are many diseases that we don't worry about any longer because we've had vaccinations.

No, they aren't cures, but they are preventions. And they work on the statistical aggregate of a population. So an individual choosing not to vaccinate is not just making a choice for themselves, but for the entire population. If enough people vaccinate, you can remove a disease from effectiveness.
 
Taylor said:
Which of those are coronaviruses?
Click to expand...

We have plenty of evidence to suggest that if your vaccination rates are high enough, a disease essentially disappears from that society.

What biological evidence would you present to suggest covid can't be controlled with high enough vaccination rates?
 
It started out with valid true statements about vaccination, but it's a Captain Adverse thread so it just had to turn into a limp-wristed advancement of the Trumpist anti-vaccist menace.

Captain Adverse said:
1. It is highly unlikely that simply vaccinating everyone will eliminate a virus, due to both natural mutation and the possibility of other forms of hosts re-transmitting it or a variant to humans, and

2. Demanding that the few or the one submit to the demands of the many simply out of "fear" is an irrational response in a self-declared "rational" society.
Click to expand...

Moronic and false. We have eradicated and eliminated (there's a difference) various diseases with herd immunity. (Distinction being in the extent to which anti-vax idiot-scum end up creating a vulnerable population in which a largely-eradicated disease can once again spread).

smallpox - eradicated
rinderpest in ruminants - eradicated
Most of the world is polio-free, with 140 cases worldwide in 2020
The list goes on.

yes, COVID-19 certainly could be eradicated.




Braying about "freedoms" is just about the dumbest way to push an anti-vaxx agenda. You should no more have the freedom to kill me with a virus than by drunkenly running me over in a coal-rolling confederate-flagged pickup.
 
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Deuce said:
We have plenty of evidence to suggest that if your vaccination rates are high enough, a disease essentially disappears from that society.
Click to expand...
What evidence do we have from the coronavirus family of viruses?

Comparing Polio to Covid is apples and oranges.
 
Taylor said:
Very few scientists believe we can "eradicate" Covid with vaccines. It's likely here to stay.
Click to expand...

Because people aren't getting vaccinated, correct.
 
Taylor said:
What evidence do we have from the coronavirus family of viruses?

Comparing Polio to Covid is apples and oranges.
Click to expand...

Can you identify even one virus with a vaccination rate comparable to polio that stayed around in any significant sense, ever in history?
 
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